How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[look3467]

threw in the towel, eh aj! donts blame you. read that post sanctus put up and thought-wellll, cant quite find argument with that

There is just so much one can say. Otherwise, it becomes redundant. You all know what and how I believe, as I know yours.
I'm content to love you all as you are.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[mapleleafgirl]

There is just so much one can say. Otherwise, it becomes redundant. You all know what and how I believe, as I know yours.
I'm content to love you all as you are.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

ok dude, whatever

 

[look3467]

threw in the towel, eh aj! donts blame you. read that post sanctus put up and thought-wellll, cant quite find argument with that

In Sanctus's court, he is just and right to hold to those his views.

I presented a different view of the same bible quotes as an option.

My theology covers all of mankind, while his covers only what the Catholic Church allows.

But still, he is performing an important function to mankind at the expense of his own desires.

It is not easy being a source of strength for allot of folk, for it is a draining of one's own strength.

That's why God instituted a Sabbatical. There is a need to take a break even from ministering, for one's own sake.

That is why I felt my contribution to this thread needed a break.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[L Gilbert]

Wow!!! A post with no scriptures?

"simply here for fun", I don't think so. You are being forced to respond because you can not let this "hog wash" of Godly views go unchallenged.

In your dreams, pilgrim. You aren't that good of a debater. The whole point for me is having fun refuting your feeble attempts at conversion. You haven't come up with any rational reason for anyone to believe in superstitions. You aren't capable of it.

The funny part that I find, is that many Atheist have come from the ranks of believers.
But I have not found one Atheist who has been an Atheist from birth.

So? We aren't born with a whole lot of knowledge. Once some people gain knowledge of how foolish believing in superstitions is, they dump that crap and get on with life. Religion is insidious that way. We are born with some faith or other being conditioned into us and it takes a while to undo that conditioning.

To come to the position of belief that Atheist hold, is because of experiences in life that gave them a bad taste of what God is.

For the 50th time or 100th time, it isn't a belief, it's a lack of it.

Judging from all the responses that I've read on this thread, I find the proclaimed Atheists of the group to be cognizant of the existence of God.

roflmao
You just echoed what I've said from the start. Your god exists. However, it exists only in the minds of men, so proc;aim all you want. Your god is no different that Santa Claus, the tooth faerie, etc.

Though they deny, yet it is evident by the responses that God is a major contender to them.

lol
Nope, it's the bullheadedness of its followers that is the big contension.

"Fun" is just a smoke screen of the real issue.

Then "faith" is, too. The real issue is control. Christians feel the need to control others. Muslims also have this need. JWs have this need. Real religions just go about their merry way and leave others to their own devices.

The real issue is that deep within the confines of the Atheist heart lies a burning, of the need for recognition by God.

roflmao
Unless one is in a Taoist area, or a Muslim area, or a Hindu area, or ......... Boy, you sure think you and your "faith" are really the cat's meow.

As if to say: "If there really is a God, then why doesn't He strike me on the head with a 2x4"?

If He did that, then I would believe in Him.

I said zap me with lightning. But it would be a start. Otherwise, as I have said many times before, the extent of my belief in gods is limited to believing that human's gods are only fantasies.

I will conclude my postings here on this thread with this summation.

Regardless, of who one is: A scientist, an environmentalist, an Atheist, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Spiritualist, Satanist, all are made of the same substance. Flesh. All must die.
If the flesh dies not, then procreation would cease. The flesh has to die so that new seeds takes it's place. Multiplication.

Whatever.

Religion has been the catalyst for for the advancement of mankind's knowledge.

Dreaming again, huh? You're wrong again, pilgrim. What sparked man's thirst for knowledge is not religion, it's curiosity. What makes it work and how can I use it?

The desire for a human to be recognized as having self worth, seeks something that is higher than its self. And in that case, it is spiritual.

No such thing as spirit. It's all in your mind.

The unexplained, the mystical, the mysterious the [FONT=&quot]ominous[/FONT] cosmos, drives the mind to wonder.

Now you have it; it's curiosity not religion.

Causes a desire to search, to find that all illusive spirit, whoever it is, which attracts the likes of mankind's minds.

Whoooops. Lost it again.

Thus, mankind develops, conjures up it's own rendition of "a" god and tries to find partners to agree with him so as to give himself worth.

Ability of body and mind gives people self-worth, not foolish ideas of supernatural fantasy.

I, being a believer in God, His Son Jesus the Christ, and His Holy Spirit, find that my God is greater than all the gods that ever graced the minds of mankind.

Prove it.

And this my God, loves all Humanity with or without their imagined gods.

.... and hates humanity, and kills humanity, and demands foolishness from humanity, etc. And it's all in your mind, which makes it even more foolish.

Every living soul that ever lived on this plant, has a place with God.

BS.

That the souls of mankind be saved by the same God who condemned the same in the first place.
Thus freeing us up to practice what ever the hell we want to practice and still be saved.

There are no such things as souls. Even if there were, I wouldn't want mine to be saved by the likes of your god, the god of hypocrisy.

This privilege is a God given privilege, and if understood, would render back to Him the praises of His creatures.
But all of mankind has not learned that yet and is on the path to learning it, with travail.

You lie. I'm not laboring for your delusion's "privilege".

I've given as much encouragement in this thread as I felt I needed to, and must go on.

Help yourself.

I have enjoyed your companionship, your thoughts and inner most feelings on the issues.

We are all equally the same in the eyes of my God, and therefore, there are no righteous ones.

God is the only righteous one, and He gives it to us for our salvation.[/quote]BS.

Well, I guess that's it.

That's the best you can do? :laughing8:

May the rest of your lives be met with good health, and properity.

That's it? Your god didn't whisper in your ear some platitudes? Some hopes? :shock: disgust.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" smilieid="746" class="inlineimg" />

Love ya 'al.

I bleieve that where millions wouldn't. I bet I had you doing one of these:banghead: a few times and you're :angry5:

:booty:

Peace>>>AJ:love9::love9::love9:

What about it?

 

[L Gilbert]

Everything I need is here on my' birth home" and "death home" (our earth.) I love it here, i'm happy
here, I live a good clean life here, and I answered his above comments, and he now understands
my position, so that is that. I am not seeking anything other than, growing and learning and becoming a better person, on this earth.
And, Gilbert, we don't preach to anyone, but maybe others who read our position will at least have
a position "other" than the religious one to ponder. Choices are healthy, just like freedom.

Yeah, variety is the spice of life. Not delusional dogma.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Yeah, variety is the spice of life. Not delusional dogma.

but okay, maybe its dogma to you, but not to others.what i mean is. is there really anything wrong with being religious? isnt it better to have a good set ofmoral values than none at all?

 

[L Gilbert]

Ooooooooooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Well, I must say that a few folks have gotten a good education in just reading our posts.
Presentation of both sides always makes for a good show.
that's right

"simply here for fun", I don't think so. You are being forced to respond because you can not let this "hog wash" of Godly views go unchallenged.
i think you really resent our freedom to be able to contribute on this thread

The funny part that I find, is that many Atheist have come from the ranks of believers.
But I have not found one Atheist who has been an Atheist from birth.
I don't think I am an atheist, i am an agnostic, as I don't study the religion of atheism,........

Atheism isn't a religion. It's a lack of belief in a fantasy.

Wikipedia says, "However, others—including most atheistic philosophers and groups—define atheism as the simple absence of belief in deities". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/atheismreligion.html

http://www.atheists.org/faqs/atheism.html#not.religion

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

 

[L Gilbert]

Correct Hermann. Original Sin is the term used to refer to the stain on all mankind from our fall from grace from the original peoples. (Adam and Eve story) Because of the original peoples turning away from God, humanity is born with the continuing stain of this fall from God's grace.

Need a little CLR or Didi7 or DCS Formula 19?

 

[L Gilbert]

You don't mean original sin(see other post on this same topic), but I know what you mean. Well, probably even in the ancient times this would've been true. Humanity's injustice to one another is certainly not something we invented in the 21st century!

It's been going on before humans invented Christianity. Even before humans invented Hinduism and Buddhism. Even before Wicca and Dravidianism.

 

[L Gilbert]

And if he just means the Christians, my thoughts are what about the pagans and all the rest? do they have a shot at salvation?

Yup, because human's only salvation lies in humans.

 

[L Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
No my friend, I can't buy that logic. Sin and wrong-doing are not the same thing, and I'm sure you'd agree with that. Sin is a particular category of wrong-doing defined very specifically in the context of a particular set of religious beliefs which I have rejected as not particularly useful and very unlikely to be true. Sin in religious terms is a transgression of a divinely sanctioned law or practice, and since I do not believe in any divinity, I reject that concept of sin as meaningless. But that doesn't mean I'm unaware of wrong-doing in myself and others. Clearly, people do wrong, I'm sure we'd agree on that too, and I'm sure we'd also agree we've both seen and done wrong. My restitution, or atonement if you want to call it that, is to the people I've wronged, not any deity.

Dex, according to Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: 1sin
Pronunciation: 'sin
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is -- more at [SIZE=-1]IS[/SIZE]
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c : an often serious shortcoming : [SIZE=-1]FAULT[/SIZE]
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God
synonym see [SIZE=-1]OFFENSE[/SIZE]

Notice the parts in red?

 

[look3467]

Your right Gilbert. I am not much of a debater. I can not match yours or Dexters smarts.

I do have a heart that reaches passed all the smarts in the world. In fact it touches the heart of God.

OH yes, God does have a heart. Prove it you say?

Can't do that unlesss...................unless, you have the same heart towards God, then shall you know without any proof.
But until then, to you it is just fantasy, and there ain't nah convincing.

But it's been a good intercourse.
As far as beating my against the wall, true, it was a challenge.

But I know when to let things go, and this is one of them.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[L Gilbert]

I need to get some rest as I was woken up at 2 am to go to hospital and have only now just returned home.

Sometimes it sucks to be a priest or a firefighter.

 

[L Gilbert]

Faith and logic don't mix.It's either all faith and or all logic.
--------------------------Look3467------------------------------------------

I understand why you say that, yet still I disagree with that statement.

I'm sure as a practical matter you can employ both when contemplating these issues in this thread.

At various times both can seem insufficient, or sufficient.

And as far as Dexter Sinister's web site on all these so-called proofs that God does not exist,
it's just as presumptious as those of believers.

I think part of the problem is that both atheists and believers cartoonize each other
because what grabs their attention and the media's attentions are the loudest cookoo heads
in each camp.

Um, specifically what the mainstream press likes are tales of the sensational.

 

[L Gilbert]

Eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge was the original sin.

This is understood as the birth of the rational mind.

Knowledge transends faith.

Knowledge is the sin that religion cannot endure.

Knowledge of a bird in the hand is worth more than faith of two in the bush.
Karl Marks

Yeah, basically the faithful are advertising that we were meant to be sheep; stupid critters wandering around eating and sleeping and nothing else.

 

[L Gilbert]

No, it is not. In fact, is is through times of doubt and despair that I believe God works more storngly within the self to restore you to His mercy.

Doubt, weakness of faith, self-pity, there are all elements of our humanity. We all go through these periods. We all find ourselves in places of interior despair. To go through them, we must pray. That s our only recourse, to submit our weakness to God and continue in our path of salvation. We may fall many, many times as we walk this path. But we will survive, we will go on. That too is our nature as humans.

If you are going through such a period now Marygaspe, allow me t add you to my prayers, and I ask you to also pray with me. Know this, regardless of how it feels, you are not alone.

Oh, c'mon Sanc. Prayer isn't the only way to dig oneself outta the doldrums. I prefer to simply get busy doing something. It doesn't even have to be something intricate and involved. Splitting wood does it for me.watching a campfire does it. Watching the critters in an aquarium does it. ...............

 

[L Gilbert]

Perhaps it does not transcend faith, but rather edifies it. That has been my experience, and the experience of millions of others. Religion can endure knowledge, for that is its basis

The opposite has been my experience.

 

[L Gilbert]

ok dude, whatever

ditto that.

 

[L Gilbert]

In Sanctus's court, he is just and right to hold to those his views.

I presented a different view of the same bible quotes as an option.

My theology covers all of mankind, while his covers only what the Catholic Church allows.

But still, he is performing an important function to mankind at the expense of his own desires.

It is not easy being a source of strength for allot of folk, for it is a draining of one's own strength.

That's why God instituted a Sabbatical. There is a need to take a break even from ministering, for one's own sake.

That is why I felt my contribution to this thread needed a break.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

See folks. Man can fantasize anything he wants. Even "all-powerful "creatures and feeble excuses.

 

[L Gilbert]

but okay, maybe its dogma to you, but not to others.what i mean is. is there really anything wrong with being religious? isnt it better to have a good set ofmoral values than none at all?

Nothing wrong with dogma itself.
www.m-w.com -

Main Entry: dog·ma
Pronunciation: 'dog-m&, 'däg-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem -- more at [SIZE=-1]DECENT[/SIZE]
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

Notice the part in purple?
It's delusional dogma that is off a bit.