(Heart) Breaking News Out of Afghanistan

CDNBear

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Can you pull out the relevant lies and apply them to this thread? Truth is good.
Read the whole pdf.

That way you get a good glimpse at the man and why/how he formulates his lies.

That video is opinion. Not truth, not fact, just his opinion.

If you're going to use a talking head to do your debating, you might want to make sure there's something inside its head.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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You are just digging yourself a deeper hole. You should quit before you get too far behind. If the Japs are so upset about getting nuked, they should have given more thought to Dec. 7, 1941.

And the US should have "given it more thought" before they decided to blindly head off to Afghanistan and Iraq with no plans or objectives other then to blow sh*t up and then later start moaning and crying they're losing troops because of it..... as if the enemy is supposed to just lay down arms and do nothing.

Speaking of holes..... your own argument just shot a hole though its own foot.

Perhaps it is you who should quit, considering you can't even directly debate what I have previously said and just use little quips to make it sound like you somehow automatically won an argument. :lol:
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Read the whole pdf.

That way you get a good glimpse at the man and why/how he formulates his lies.

That video is opinion. Not truth, not fact, just his opinion.

If you're going to use a talking head to do your debating, you might want to make sure there's something inside its head.

That's great that you can just pass him off like that. We can discuss whether Chomsky is a reputable source for anything in another thread. But regarding the claims presented in that video, you have yet to actually make a valid critique.

Until you do so, I don't really have anything to respond to regarding this issue, and I certainly won't sift through a document on numerous other issues that have nothing to do with this one. The same person can be wrong about one thing and right about another, so the onus of proof is on you to show he is wrong about this issue.

Certainly, my sig from him is already evidence of something that we would mutually agree upon, regardless of our differentiating stances on this particular topic.
 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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JLM said:

"I originally construed your post to mean JBee is absolutely and then you continue to refute that. Clarify please."

If you read the list, you will see that there were many attacks much before Sept 11, 2001.
 

CDNBear

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I'm not comparing the wars, I'm comparing the actions against civilians.... in how on one side, it's perfectly justifiable, while on the other (when it's done to us) it's completely inexcusable, unjustified and calls for an all out military attack that ends up killing nameless and countless other civilians, which are once again.... justifiable.
It's not justifiable in that context. We do not specifically target civilians. That is where you are making an erroneous comparison, between modern three block warfare of to day, and operational art and maneuver warfare, of WWII(LWF).

You're comparing collateral damage to specified targets.

Civilians are not specified targets, for western forces.

Most likely it would be..... however one would have thought we would have evolved a little bit more to not allow this to happen in the first place...... but hindsight being 20/20....... we're there now, the US just sent in more of their own troops and it was expected before they did that more of their troops would be killed...... and they are...... and yet people act all shocked and surprised..... mortified even, that so many are being killed.
I'm not shocked, mortified or surprised. Casualties are still low. Death is a by product of war.

It's War, that's what happens...... I know you're fully aware of this, but it would seem others in here are not.
Agreed.

That's great that you can just pass him off like that.
I didn't just find that link, and this isn't the first time I've discussed Chomsky. If you really must know, I once followed and admired Chomsky. Until I decided critical thought, deductive reasoning and objective research were better for my brain.

We can discuss whether Chomsky is a reputable source for anything in another thread.
Please do.

But regarding the claims presented in that video, you have yet to actually make a valid critique.
mentalfloss, there isn't a hope in hell that I will change your mind, Jbeee is even less a chance. I don't care what you think about Chomsky, or about US Imperialism. If you go through my threads, you will find a piece I wrote on the fact that Manifest Destiny, is still alive and well in the US.

The US, like Canada, like any country, is going to operate and act for its own interests.

Until you do so, I don't really have anything to respond to regarding this issue, and I certainly won't sift through a document on numerous other issues that have nothing to do with this one.
I realize I just took a great big dump on one of your hero's obviously. But that document has a table of contents. I don't research for anybody but me.

The same person can be wrong about one thing and right about another, so the onus of proof is on you to show he is wrong about this issue.
:roll: No, the onus is on Jbeee to prove me wrong. Since it was his video. But feel free to have your own opinion.

Certainly, my sig from him is already evidence of something that we would mutually agree upon, regardless of our differentiating stances on this particular topic.
Ya, if I didn't think he was talking about socialism.
 

mentalfloss

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CDNBear, I never said I wasn't going to read it. Nor did I say Chomsky was my hero. For the purposes of this thread, I just wanted to see what particular criticism the author had and going through every single one of those really is a waste of time for this thread. When I get to put a night cap on, I'll check it out.

I just don't think posting a link to 200 lies about Chomsky really accomplished much for you. At least you actually said something this time though. It appears your justification for why we should have gone to war is that the U.S. acts in its own self interest and manifest destiny.

Well, clarify those principles a bit further and show why they are an ethical justification for why the U.S. was in Afghanistan. I'm willing to hear and accept that if your rationale is convincing.
 
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JLM

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JLM said:

"I originally construed your post to mean JBee is absolutely and then you continue to refute that. Clarify please."

If you read the list, you will see that there were many attacks much before Sept 11, 2001.

I did and noted they are mostly committed by members of Islam. So I'm a little baffled about the criticism against the U.S. :smile:
 

YukonJack

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JLM, on that list ALL of the terrorist acts were committed by members of Islam. Some were committed before Sept 11, 2001, and some were after.

I simply said that JBeee was absolutely correct in saying that the "conflict started MUCH before Sept 11, 2001".

I am baffled that you are baffled. Where is "the criticism against the U.S."? Not in my posts.
 

CDNBear

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CDNBear, I never said I wasn't going to read it. Nor did I say Chomsky was my hero. For the purposes of this thread, I just wanted to see what particular criticism the author had and going through every single one of those really is a waste of time for this thread. When I get to put a night cap on, I'll check it out.
I hope it wakes you up, that's a pun, not a shot, and is meant as an LOL, not a gotchya.

I just don't think posting a link to 200 lies about Chomsky really accomplished much for you.
What makes you think I was in an active debate? I posted that to JBeee, there is no debate with JBeee. I was just showing that Chomsky is a liar. I don't care whether or not it attacks the very context of that video.

Now, If you want to start a thread on Chomsky, feel free, I'll be more then tickled pink to dissect the man in public.

Your justification for why we should have gone to war is that the U.S. acts in its own self interest and manifest destiny.
More then just gone to war, why the US does anything. Why anybody does anything. And this actually comes back to Utilitarianism, pleasure.

The US will act in the interest of US, be it humanitarian or authoritarian. For the purposes of providing for its corporate structure and people. That's not to say it's always overtly positive, or without inherent dangers, but that is what the talking heads like Chomsky, like to call "US Imperialism".
Well, clarify those principles a bit further and show why they are an ethical justification for why the U.S. was in Afghanistan.
This all depends greatly on what you find pleasurable, what you place value in. Mineral wealth in Afghanistan isn't anything new. I'm under no delusions that 9/11 was an excellent excuse to feed US interests with access to new mineral bodies, or their share of oil explorations.

Now, if you weigh the cost of life to that of the interests of the whole of the nation waging the war, your formulated opinion, is either or, based solely on how you crunch the numbers.

It doesn't matter that I think that a cost of human lives (Friend or Foe), no matter how much it actually bothers me, is worth the prosperity and level of comfort of the west.

I'm not a pretender. I actually understand the costs. I actually observe the causation and understand the why, while my gut is wrenched by the tiny faces of dead children, or mutilated mothers. The only difference is, I don't sit back on those morals, that show my humanity, in the comfort of my home, with my car in the drive way and keyboard at my finger tips. And point bony finger at those that would wage that war in my interest, while lived comfortably off of their exploits.

The day I see a blogger say, "That's it, I quit. I can't use the internet, my car, or live in my house. Because I am exploiting the benefits of the wars waged in the interest of my nation. That provides me the luxuries I consume." , is the day I stop calling people that post the nonsense Jbee post's, and all those that jump on board with him, "morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, hypocrites".
 

JLM

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JLM, on that list ALL of the terrorist acts were committed by members of Islam. Some were committed before Sept 11, 2001, and some were after.

I simply said that JBeee was absolutely correct in saying that the "conflict started MUCH before Sept 11, 2001".

I am baffled that you are baffled. Where is "the criticism against the U.S."? Not in my posts.

Sorry, my wording was poor, we are on the same page. Of interest I just heard on the radio that Obama has officially ceased and desisted military action in Iraq, something which Bush took the heat for (and maybe rightfully so) for years and which was mainly the reason for Bush' low ratings so I now expect the rating for Obama will soar. Would that make sense to you Y.J.?

I'm curious too. What did you mean by accommodate?

Wouldn't "accommodate" mean to fulfill the needs and desires of the troops? I thought it was pretty straight forward. :smile:
 

JBeee

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Hes perhaps confused with the irrelevance the crimes committed by Islamic `terrorists` in the silly list you gave.

What was it....Islamic `terrorist` guns down shop keeper, snatches cigarettes and cash...lol


JLM, on that list ALL of the terrorist acts were committed by members of Islam. Some were committed before Sept 11, 2001, and some were after.

I simply said that JBeee was absolutely correct in saying that the "conflict started MUCH before Sept 11, 2001".

I am baffled that you are baffled. Where is "the criticism against the U.S."? Not in my posts.
 

mentalfloss

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CDNBear, I can see that. But I think that a lot of these 'luxuries' that we have would still exist, even if the U.S. didn't make this particular conquest. We would still have internet, cars, a comfy couch, etc. and many innocent lives would also be spared.

Also, there do exist countries other than the U.S. that are much more civil and have a more than adequate amount of resources at their disposal. And not only that, but they also have freedom of speech in those countries without media propaganda.
 

CDNBear

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CDNBear, I can see that. But I think that a lot of these 'luxuries' that we have would still exist, even if the U.S. didn't make this particular conquest though.
Maybe, but I'm reminded of the old adage, "You don't know what you have, until you don't have it."

There are many other countries that are much more civil and have a more than adequate amount of resources at their disposal.
What makes you think the US isn't civilly trading with those nations? Like they do with Canada.

Thus Chomsky's opinion is flawed. If he were correct, the US would have simply annexed Canada years ago.
 
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JLM

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Hes perhaps confused with the irrelevance the crimes committed by Islamic `terrorists` in the silly list you gave.

What was it....Islamic `terrorist` guns down shop keeper, snatches cigarettes and cash...lol

And that would be a good thing? :smile:
 

mentalfloss

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Thus Chomsky's opinion is flawed. If he were correct, the US would have simply annexed Canada years ago.

lol - nice stealth edit 7 minutes later.

Oh, you and your deliberate provocations. Gets me every time. ;)
 

CDNBear

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lol - nice stealth edit 7 minutes later.
Sometimes sh!t just pops into my head and go back and throw it in there. I always hope that the person catches, it's never done to be surreptitious.

Oh, you and your deliberate provocations. Gets me every time. ;)
LOL, I do it for a reason, oft called trolling, I call it digging.

It's fun to expose peoples underlying ideologies, when you have them chip away at their own facades. Sometimes I have to use my claws, though.