HEALTH CARE - User fees

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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You are getting the idea. If there are user fees, we will continue paying the same amount of tax. Doctors will keep earning the same amount of money, government will pocket the extra money. Government will simply deduct from doctor's payment the amount of user fee.
Why wouldn't gov't just take the income tax from the user fees docs collect instead of the entire amount? It'd be pretty much like waitresses' tips, wouldn't it? Do waitresses hand over all their tips? Get a grip.

But isn't that what happens now? Health case is financed from income taxes, so those who can afford, pay more than those who cannot.
So? User fees means the user will pay a tiny bit more than they would otherwise, leaving people that don't use the services paying the regular amount.
It might just make more people feel a little more responsible for their own health.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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User fees are a dumb idea opening the door for cost sucking administration expenses.....just look south for that example.
roflmao And there's no administration expenses (and especially waste) in Canada. roflmao
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ask a doctor to hand over your file so you can copy it then! It won't happen. I tried to have my file given to me. I had to argue with the doctors office to get it. They wanted to send it directly to my new doctors office for a fee of $35.00. I told them that under the freedom of information act, I had the right to my own file. They then gave in to a time when I could pick up my file - for $35.00. They copied it for me and vetted some of the doctors words and included a snotagram stating I had cited that I was entitled to my own file under the Freedom of Information Act. It was quite an un-pleasant experience along with the part where the doctor 1. Chose to vet some of his words and 2. was less than truthful about one office visit I had with him.

I don’t know about your points 1 and 2 (doctor vetting his own words etc.), but the doctor followed the proper procedure. Normally the doctor would send the chart directly to your new doctor, and most will charge you a fee for that.

Also doctor won’t give you possession of the chart. As I said before, the doctor is responsible for it. If you borrow the chart for photocopying and never return, the doctor is sunk if the College or the government asks him to produce the chart and he cannot produce it.

My wife never gives the chart to the patient. If patient wants to look at the chart, she will give him/her the photocopy, and for that he has to pay according to Ontario Medical Association guidelines. And their fee is pretty stiff too; they charge more than a dollar a page or something like that. A 100 page chart would set you back more than 100 $.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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It was years and years ago that doctors started charging a $5.00 user fee for every visit. There were so many complaints that it ended and our own doctor of the time stated that it was simply not worth the time and effort.
So the whining got to be too much? Jut wait till the gov'ts spend 3/4 of their budgets on healthcare. Then we'll hear whining.
How does your eye doctor get to charge? That's pretty easy. The government no longer pays any part of your visit to your eye doctor until you are age 65+ just like they no longer pay for a visit to Physiotherapists, Chiropractors, Podiatrists, and Naturopaths. Without a "user" fee, these services would be gone completely. It's not actually a user fee, it's just a fee. I believe my last eye exam was $95.00. (or 85).
So because our MDs are paid for by gov't means everything's all peachy keen. I see. I also see the docs around here working a lot more than 40 hours a week, the assembly line visits, waits, crappy equipment (one nurse was telling me she dropped a clamp on the floor and it broke, hospitals are reusing single-use equipment, etc.), and so on is just fine with you. I see.
Stores might not be dead where you are but they are dying here. I'm talking about larger stores like grocery stores the size of Save On More/ Costco etc. Our store has been slow for months with Christmas being the exception. I had a customer yesterday who said he had just come from Costco and it was dead in there too. Now today is Friday and all stores will pick up for the day but the store I work at was "Friday" busy everyday. The addition of 6 self-serve tills has driven customers away in droves. Along with the complaints we get regarding our own we also hear about the ones they don't like at Canadian Tire and at Home Depot. The store was so busy a couple of weeks ago and since we have been slow, not enough cashiers were on duty to cover all the tills. It appears this is done in order to force people to use the self scans where six tills are watched over by one cashier. Out of frustration, people started throwing things at the poor cashier that was overseeing self scan purchases. The self scans and our large open doors are like an invitation to steal all you can and people do. We have a wider opening than Costco does for people entering and leaving the store and no one watches those doors for carts and carts full of groceries leaving the store. Naturally, profits are down. It's a wonderful way of switching the store to a non-union store.
Sounds like a lot of bad management to me. General Motors management as applicable to the mega grocers.
Dentists are not covered by any govenment plan and do not have a user fee either. They just have a fee. If you are lucky enough to be on a dental plan you get a break but if you are not - you pay the full fee. Dentists have never been on any government health plan.
And as such, dentists are doing fine.
Doctors do charge about $20.00 per visit - to the government and that's why we pay a monthly fee for health care. You really should find out more about how your health care is funded (or not).
That's all doctors get is $20 from the gov't per visit? No wonder there's a shortage around here.
I've lived in many towns and cities in this province and had my medical file transferred everytime. The only time I paid was for the one I picked up myself but upon phoning to ask them to transfer my file, I was informed of the fee (less than a year ago) and I had to pay that fee even though I picked the file up myself. I inquired about it a few years ago when a Vernon doctor sent me a bill for transferring my file to this city. I was informed at the time that while the charge (ability to charge) has always been there, most doctors choose not to use it. Time changes all things.
It wouldn't bother me to pay a transfer charge for my file. It wouldn't bother me to pay for long distance calls my doc makes on my behalf. I keep myself pretty healthy. Some toad that wants to eat Big Macs, KFC, etc. paying more for his healthcare than me paying for mine doesn't bother me in the least. I've got nothing against being my brother's keeper but when I am partially paying for his healthcare, I would hope the SOB at least takes care of himself. IOW, I don't like subsidising other people's smoking, drinking, greasy fried chicken habits.
 
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sputnik

New Member
Dec 8, 2009
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1
Canada
User fees are a ridiculous idea. If anything stop cutting taxes. We should not have to pay any more than we already do. Keep it universal. The "socialist" (i use the term loosely) approach is the best approach. If only we did the same for post secondary education, up to a certain degree.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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There is no discredit here. It takes doctor some time to get the chart together, make sure it is complete and mail it to the other doctor. Surely doctor's time is worth something?
You're trying to tell me that it's costing them more time and money now then it did years ago when they did not charge the patient? It can be sent electronically now in split seconds. I don't know about your wife's office but my doctor has a computer on his desk and no paper file in front of him when I go to see him. When he wants to look back in his file, he doesn't have to scan through pages and pages of papers, he just scrolls the page like the rest of us do. Prescriptions are printed off the same way with a quick signature on the bottom of the page. When I see my doctor it's always for a renewal so I go every 3 months. I am never there longer than 3 - 5 min. (of his time).
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
You're trying to tell me that it's costing them more time and money now then it did years ago when they did not charge the patient? It can be sent electronically now in split seconds. I don't know about your wife's office but my doctor has a computer on his desk and no paper file in front of him when I go to see him. When he wants to look back in his file, he doesn't have to scan through pages and pages of papers, he just scrolls the page like the rest of us do. Prescriptions are printed off the same way with a quick signature on the bottom of the page. When I see my doctor it's always for a renewal so I go every 3 months. I am never there longer than 3 - 5 min. (of his time).


My wife is computer illiterate; she doesn’t even have a computer in her office. I do her billing at home. So any transfer of charts involves photocopying and mailing it to the doctor. There are costs associated with that.

I don’t know what are the OMA guidelines with the new chartless offices. But you have a point, I can see how it would be instantaneous if the chart is already on the computer and all the doctor has to do is to E Mail it to somebody else.

Incidentally, my wife renews prescriptions every six months (if she does go on salary, she is thinking of doing it every year).
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
Incidentally, my wife renews prescriptions every six months (if she does go on salary, she is thinking of doing it every year).

That's fine and dandy ... but some prescriptions cannot be refilled more than a few times. That is a loophole that closed in the battle against drug abuse.


BTW.... Is your wife's staff computer illiterate too?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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That's fine and dandy ... but some prescriptions cannot be refilled more than a few times. That is a loophole that closed in the battle against drug abuse
MIL's doc makes out 1 year prescriptions for her. Her druggist gives her 3 month rations. Not a biggie.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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I don’t know about your points 1 and 2 (doctor vetting his own words etc.), but the doctor followed the proper procedure. Normally the doctor would send the chart directly to your new doctor, and most will charge you a fee for that.

Also doctor won’t give you possession of the chart. As I said before, the doctor is responsible for it. If you borrow the chart for photocopying and never return, the doctor is sunk if the College or the government asks him to produce the chart and he cannot produce it.

My wife never gives the chart to the patient. If patient wants to look at the chart, she will give him/her the photocopy, and for that he has to pay according to Ontario Medical Association guidelines. And their fee is pretty stiff too; they charge more than a dollar a page or something like that. A 100 page chart would set you back more than 100 $.
Your key words are "Ontario Med. Assoc. guidelines". There is a set fee for transferring a file and that fee in BC is $35.00 (was $25.00 just a short few years ago). The chart does belong to the doctor and he must keep a copy but the chart also belongs to me under the Freedom of Information Act and it should not be vetted. Vetting is simply to stop the doctor from being sued over making any derogatory comments. In my case the doctor made a false statement and vetted his part in my leaving his practice. His staff openly made fun of the fact that I requested my own file under the Freedom of Information Act., and that was on a page in the file I was given.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
The last I heard, the projection was that unless something changes, our health care system will be using up 70 to 75% of our gov'ts budgets by around 2025. That is unsustainable.

Now we are seeing a little common sense - health care is reaching the point where it's an obsession, our concern about our physical health is getting to the point where it's destroying our mental health. :smile:
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
Funny how we call our public healthcare system free and universal.

People are discouraged by lengthy wait times to see specialists and people are discouraged from taking prescriptions they cannot afford and the quality of care ranks slightly ahead of other third world coutries.

We cover less and less and add more and more small fees, is this our solution for a sustainable free and universal public healthcare system? The cherry on the cake is many Canadians are hell bent against private healthcare too.

Can't wait to see what our healthcare system is like in 10 years, i'm sure there will be fewer fees and shorter wait times by keeping private healthcare out of canada, great plan canada !

There is a couple of serious problems with our healthcare. First of all we are expecting a lot from "health care" that we should be doing for ourselves. The second is those who expect to be looked after by "Healthcare" have to figure out what they expect and what they are willing to pay for it (themselves) because it's "themselves" who in the final analysis are footing the bill (there's no frickin' aliens out there bankrolling the system) The creator whoeve he/she is but let's for the sake of argument here (and not starting another argument) is Mother Nature. Every function of our body has been planned right to the last cell and we started out with an adequate fuel system and air intake and processing system (in 99% of people) These systems need proper maintenance by the user not the doctor. Doctors are good for when we step on a banana peel and need some surgery.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Yeah, like I said, I've got nothing against being my brother's keeper but when I am partially paying for his healthcare, I would hope the SOB at least takes care of himself. IOW, I don't like subsidising other people's health problems due to smoking, drinking, and greasy fried chicken habits.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
That's all doctors get is $20 from the gov't per visit? No wonder there's a shortage around here.

It's probably closer to $25, but that's about it, for a general visit with no procedures and no psych. councilling (ie, an hour discussing your depression).

And you're right, that's why it's hard to get doctors, because out of that money, they have to pay rent, office expenses, receptionist, etc.