HEALTH CARE - User fees

[AnnaG]

If there is user fee, preventive care will most certainly have to be paid for.

Name me any kind of medical care that isn't paid for. lmao "Whatta maroon" - B Bunny

Visit to doctor’s office for pre and post natal care, annual health check up, preventive cancer testing etc. All these will be discouraged by user fees.

Why would they be? There's a valid reason for them. On the other hand, user fees would stop people from going to the doc because they had a hangnail or a sniffle which aren't valid reasons for going to the doc.

It will discourage the poor people big time,

The gov't can chip in. It does anyway.

but it will also discourage the middle class. Why pay 20$ when nothing is hurting, when there are no problems? That is human nature.

Why go to the doc in the first place if there are no problems, user fee or no user fee?:roll:

The result will be that we may join USA in having a high rate of maternal deaths, much higher than most other countries. Due to lack of pre and post natal care, number of premature babies may increase (increasing the health care costs), infant mortality may increase. Because cancer was not diagnosed early (due to lack of cancer testing), cancer incidence may increase, thereby increasing health care costs.

I can see many harmful consequences for user fees.

You sure don't have very much confidence that people can be in touch with their own bodies. People get regular checkups, or they should anyway. And they should increase the frequency of the checkups as they age. If people can't afford $20 a year or even $40, gov't can go good for the bill. You sure are good at moving goalposts but not options. No imagination at all. sad

 

[JLM]

AnnaG laid down the law to poor Machjo by saying:

"And I am not going to talk to you anymore until you figure out how to use quote functions properly."

AnnaG, I DON'T use the quote function, because I think - no, I am sure - I can express my views better, just using my own words.

Have you ever thought what those poor old, mostly dead by now, suckers did attempting to quote someone, before the age of computers, before those who can't or refuse to think for themselves?

The quote function is nothing but a crutch.

SORRY, I GOT OFF THE TOPIC!

Now you really have me confused Y.J.- probably this damned Alzheimers acting up again, but as I understand it- the "quote function" just brings up the post you are replying to ????????? Or am I stupid? P.S. I'm not off topic here, just speaking from the MENTAL health aspect.

 

[AnnaG]

AnnaG laid down the law to poor Machjo by saying:

"And I am not going to talk to you anymore until you figure out how to use quote functions properly."

AnnaG, I DON'T use the quote function, because I think - no, I am sure - I can express my views better, just using my own words.

Have you ever thought what those poor old, mostly dead by now, suckers did attempting to quote someone, before the age of computers, before those who can't or refuse to think for themselves?

The quote function is nothing but a crutch.

SORRY, I GOT OFF THE TOPIC!

"No worries". But if one is going to use something, they should learn to use it properly.

 

[YukonJack]

Quoting JLM:

"Now you really have me confused Y.J.- probably this damned Alzheimers acting up again, but as I understand it- the "quote function" just brings up the post you are replying to ????????? Or am I stupid? P.S. I'm not off topic here, just speaking from the MENTAL health aspect."

Here, JLM, does that feel better? Or does if confuse you even more that I can think for myself, use words of my own instead of computer generated gobbledygook?

 

[JLM]

Quoting JLM:

"Now you really have me confused Y.J.- probably this damned Alzheimers acting up again, but as I understand it- the "quote function" just brings up the post you are replying to ????????? Or am I stupid? P.S. I'm not off topic here, just speaking from the MENTAL health aspect."

Here, JLM, does that feel better? Or does if confuse you even more that I can think for myself, use words of my own instead of computer generated gobbledygook?

Does it generate computer "gobbledygook" or just other posters' gobbledygook?

 

[YukonJack]

JLM asked me regarding my opinion (and refusing to use) the computer generated QUOTE FUNCTION:

"Does it generate computer "gobbledygook" or just other posters' gobbledygook?"

That is up to you to decide, JLM.

As an aside, what have you got against using your own words? Does the pretty rectangle surrounding your post give you a high?

And more to the point, what are your comments about my posts about USER FEES?

 

[JLM]

JLM asked me regarding my opinion (and refusing to use) the computer generated QUOTE FUNCTION:

"Does it generate computer "gobbledygook" or just other posters' gobbledygook?"

That is up to you to decide, JLM.

As an aside, what have you got against using your own words? Does the pretty rectangle surrounding your post give you a high?

And more to the point, what are your comments about my posts about USER FEES?

In principle they are bang on but realistically they won't work. Has to be at least $20 to cover all the bureaucracy before it even starts to cover medical care. I think S.J. told you that and I know you don't have a high opinion of what he says..............but sometimes he takes a peek at what I've been saying and passes it off as his. I replied to the $5 user fee suggestion about two weeks ago and now I notice he comes up with what I said almost verbatim................................:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Maybe. Certainly private insurance should be allowed for those who want it, and maybe it should be compulsory. And maybe it should all be privatized (with the exception of non-consensual services).



I don't totally agree with this. If you can't work, it should be automatic. But if you can work, then the government has an obligation to ensure you have an opportunity to work. I could see two options here:

1. If you're unemployed and sent to school to learn some trade or profession, then the school could be required to pay this insurance to cover you while you're studying. But if you get kicked out of that school, obviously they won't cover your insurance anymore.

2. If you're unemployed and do some volunteer work to gain work experience, the government could cover you since you're still making a contribution to the community and trying to better yourself.

This is where the concept of some kind of Canadian improved version of the US Peace Corps could be of value. But, alas, it's too American for some.

Good points Machjo................:lol:

 

[JLM]

"I don't totally agree with this. If you can't work, it should be automatic. But if you can work, then the government has an obligation to ensure you have an opportunity to work. I could see two options here:"

Sorry but where is that carved in stone? Gov't. is not in the job market business nor should it be. It is there to enact legislation - not conduct business.

 

[Machjo]

"I don't totally agree with this. If you can't work, it should be automatic. But if you can work, then the government has an obligation to ensure you have an opportunity to work. I could see two options here:"

Sorry but where is that carved in stone? Gov't. is not in the job market business nor should it be. It is there to enact legislation - not conduct business.

Then you tell me: if a person is unemployed and looking for work and can't find work, what do you propose we do with him? We either make him productive or he becomes a burden on our society. Take your pick.

 

[Machjo]

If the government educates him, then he's more likely to get back into the job market and become a taxpayer like the rest of us. Or if the government gets him volunteering for it, then it can get some work out of hi and gie him work experience instead of paying inflated wages to public service union workers. Again, take your pick.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Then you tell me: if a person is unemployed and looking for work and can't find work, what do you propose we do with him? We either make him productive or he becomes a burden on our society. Take your pick.

We live him out to hang and dry. That is how unbridled, rampant capitalism, with no checks and balances works.

 

[Machjo]

We live him out to hang and dry. That is how unbridled, rampant capitalism, with no checks and balances works.

Extremism in either direction is harmful. Extreme capitalism is just as harmful as extreme socialism. Certainly there must be a happy medium.

I do believe in compassion, but checked with the consideration of economic efficiency. On that front, if we're giving a person assistance, then let's give it in exchange for work, education, or something, even if it's just in exchange for rehabilitation or literacy education. But let's give it in exchange for something.

 

[Machjo]

By the way, I'd be curious about any ideas on the proposal made here:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/90743-universal-medicare-good-idea.html

I realised afterwards that the title is a little ambiguous, but still.

 

[L Gilbert]

I see nothing wrong with user fees as long as they don't negatively affect the poorer of the population. It might urge people to take a little better care of their health if they actually had to dig in their pocket for a ten-spot or a twenty rather than having things deducted from their paycheck or bank account. $10 or $20 a year isn't a big deal. $10 or $20 every time you headed off to emerg or your doc's office for a scratch might make you think of using a bandaid or being more careful in the first place.
It'd also alleviate a little of the cost-burden on those that don't use health facilities as much.

 

[L Gilbert]

We live him out to hang and dry. That is how unbridled, rampant capitalism, with no checks and balances works.

Not really. You are forgetting that there are charitable capitalists around. Pattison is one that I can think of. Gates is another.

 

[L Gilbert]

Extremism in either direction is harmful. Extreme capitalism is just as harmful as extreme socialism. Certainly there must be a happy medium.

I do believe in compassion, but checked with the consideration of economic efficiency. On that front, if we're giving a person assistance, then let's give it in exchange for work, education, or something, even if it's just in exchange for rehabilitation or literacy education. But let's give it in exchange for something.

That could have come straight from Jimmy Pattison's mouth. He's all for helping people but only if they can earn it in some way or other.

 

[countryboy]

Extremism in either direction is harmful. Extreme capitalism is just as harmful as extreme socialism. Certainly there must be a happy medium.

I do believe in compassion, but checked with the consideration of economic efficiency. On that front, if we're giving a person assistance, then let's give it in exchange for work, education, or something, even if it's just in exchange for rehabilitation or literacy education. But let's give it in exchange for something.

You're talking about a reasonable balance. That's a difficult concept for some to grasp, from what I've seen. I think it stems from the notion that if they push their agenda to the extreme without ever letting up, some of it might end up becoming part of "the system."

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Extremism in either direction is harmful. Extreme capitalism is just as harmful as extreme socialism. Certainly there must be a happy medium.

I do believe in compassion, but checked with the consideration of economic efficiency. On that front, if we're giving a person assistance, then let's give it in exchange for work, education, or something, even if it's just in exchange for rehabilitation or literacy education. But let's give it in exchange for something.

No disagreement there. If state gives a young, able bodied person social assistance, it is only right and proper that the state gets something out of it.

 

[GreenFish66]

Everyone , regardless of status, should be given the right to basic ,social health care.Since We're all stuck here...It is the only way to go ..Has been proven time and time again by 1st world nations...Wanna pay more for new tech ..That's your choice..More money to R&D is always helpful/beneficial for all ..