Harper predicts pain at gas pumps if Layton is in power

[mentalfloss]

At this point, there is no NDP fiscal policy that could any be worse than the economic disaster the conservatives have put us through. You'll have to find another angle, because if you're talking talking money, here, the conservatives have done a poor job.

The Liberals handed them a lovely platter to help them through the recession and they still blew it. They slashed taxes for big businesses and we're still in debt and suffering a deficit. And lastly, they're making the most wasteful expenditure the country has ever seen.

Sorry, but the conservatives have objectively failed as an economic conduit for the country.

Time to accept it and move on.

 

[Durry]

At this point, no amount of "Layton idiocy" could be worse than the economic policy of the conservatives. The Liberals handed them a lovely platter to help them through the recession and they still blew it. They slashed taxes for big businesses and we're still in debt and suffering a deficit. And lastly, they're making the most wasteful expenditure the country has ever seen.

Sorry, but the conservatives have objectively failed as an economic conduit for the country.

Time to accept it and move on.

You know as much about business and economics as Jack does.

 

[mentalfloss]

You know as much about business and economics as Jack does.

Sorry, but the conservatives have objectively failed as an economic conduit for the country.

Time to accept it and move on.

 

[lone wolf]

Layton, who comes from a long line of politicians and activists, was born in Montreal in 1950, but grew up in the small town of Hudson, Quebec. His grandfather, Gilbert Layton, was a cabinet minister in Quebec’s Union Nationale government during the 1930s; he eventually resigned his cabinet position in protest of his government’s opposition to conscription in World War II. His father, Robert Layton, was an activist in the Liberal Party of Canada during the 1960s and 1970s, before joining the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada in the 1980s. He was elected to the House of Commons in 1984 and served in the cabinet of Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

Jack Layton completed his undergraduate studies at McGill University, where he was exposed to the left-wing ideologies and political activism of the 1960s and 1970s. Active in his university days, Layton took part in political science department sit-ins and campaigned for affordable student housing. He then attended York University where, in 1984, he graduated with a Ph.D. in political science.

Jack Layton | Mapleleafweb.com

probably a waste of bandwidth posting for someone whose eyes dim when they start talking

 

[Colpy]

At this point, there is no NDP fiscal policy that could any be worse than the economic disaster the conservatives have put us through. You'll have to find another angle, because if you're talking talking money, here, the conservatives have done a poor job.

The Liberals handed them a lovely platter to help them through the recession and they still blew it. They slashed taxes for big businesses and we're still in debt and suffering a deficit. And lastly, they're making the most wasteful expenditure the country has ever seen.

Sorry, but the conservatives have objectively failed as an economic conduit for the country.

Time to accept it and move on.

First of all, not only did the Libs/NDP approve every Tory budget, they DEMANDED more spending. The Tories do not wear that one alone.

But even at that, you're right, the Conservatives have not done a very good job. They have not totally done away with support for the "arts", they were still granting money to every idiot NGO with an axe to grind, and they could be quite wasteful otherwise.

So, you want to take the gov't away from amateur spenders.........and hand it over to the pros.

Idiotic.

70 Billion dollars of spending Jack has promised, according to the National Post.....70 billion. Double CPP payments. Cap and trade taxes, .....idiotic

 

[mentalfloss]

Regarding conservatives, the economy, and the G20..

1) It was not that Canada performed particularly well; it was that the other G-8 countries were particularly hard at it. Compare us against other OCED countries and the picture is not nearly as Rosy. For example, we rank 18th out 30 in terms of unemployment.

2) The Conservatives do not deserve credit for 10% growth in China and more than anything else that is what has kept the Canadian economy strong relative to the other G8 countries. It has kept the price of commodities up.

3) The opposition parties forced the Conservatives into passing The stimulus package. They were able to do that because Michael Igantieff was at 36% in the Spring 2009. Ever since the Conservatives have spent tens of millions of dollars celebrating "Canada's action plan".

4) The Conservatives have shown a similar degree of chutzpah in celebrating a conservative lending culture in Canada that they had begun to undermine prior to the downturn.

5) The cost of housing gone through the roof since 2006 and the main reason for that is the Conservative government decided pour fuel on an already red hot real estate market. The Conservatives extended the mortgage amortization period from 25 years to 30 years in February 2006, extended it to 35 years in July of 2006 and extended it yet again to 40 years in November 2006 During this period they also reduced the needed down payment on second properties from 20% to 5% and allowed for 0 down on one's primary residence. Ever since the down turn, Jim Flaherty has been scrabbling to undo the damage his past actions have done. Flaherty first reduced amortization period from 40 years to 35 and again mandated a 20% down payment on secondary properties and 5% on primary properties in October 2008 and on March 18th he reduced the maximum amortization period to 30 years. Never once acknowledging that it was he who raised the amortization period to begin with, Jim Flaherty has repeatedly over the course of the last 2 and half years that reducing the amortization and increasing the minimum downplayment was the right thing to do. "In 2008 and again in 2010, our government acted to protect and strengthen the Canadian housing market," The problem is it is too little too late. The best Flaherty and Conservatives can do is prevent further damage. Weather it be Bloomberg, Paul Krugman and, if you read between the lines, Mark Carney many are worried that Canada is headed for a crash that would drive Canada deep into debt. For one thing, since 2006 Canadian mortgage and housing corporations liabilities have gone from 100 billion to 500 hundred billion. If the housing bubble bursts and Canadians start defaulting on their mortgages, the Canadian tax payer will be picking up the tab. The Canadian government guarantees all that debt.

 

[Durry]

an economic conduit
n.

What does this mean ?

 

[earth_as_one]

Honestly, possibly a good "attack" against the NDP would be to pop its idealized bubble about Sweden as a successful socialist paradise. Many socialists point to Sweden as a successful "socialist" model as a reason to vote NDP. What they seem to ignore though is that:

1. it's debatable whether Sweden's economy is socialist, and

2. even if we do define it as socialist, it's pretty darn moderate compared to the NDP platform.

For instance, Sweden:

1. has never had a legally mandated minimum wage.
2. even has a school voucher programme, something we in North America woudl usually associate with the US Republican Party.
3. is very pro-free-trade.
4. has a two-tier health care system allowing private-sector involvement.

More accurately, Sweden's economy could be defined as sitting between liberal-corporatism and social-corporatism depending on the party in power.

I could go on, but I think this makes it clear that the NDP platform is nothing like what some dippers like to compare themselves to in Sweden. Sweden's social-democratic could actually be described as more social-corporatist on the economic front, whereas the NDP's economic platform is more labour-socialist.

I was just in Sweden and its far more socialist than the NDP. You are cherry picking information to support your perceptions.

Sweden is a social welfare system where everyone is guaranteed a minimum standard of living. So they have no need of minimum wage, when even the poor have a relatively high standard of living. In fact, an unemployed swede who hasn't worked in years can afford to go to Spain every winter on vacation. You don't even have to be a Swedish citizen to enjoy full benefits. Being a resident is good enough to enjoy their social welfare system.

Yes schools are private. The way it works is that all schools get so much money from the state per child. Some schools are run by the government and some aren't. Parents can choose where they want to send their children to school. A poor person can send their child to any school, because school/education from day care through university is a state responsibility and free. So its not like the US private school system, which is class oriented and expensive. BTW, University is free, but merit based. You can't build a new house easily, but the government is responsible for housing everyone. Wait times for new homes are in the years/decades.

Hospitals and most medical services are free for everyone. But if you want cosmetic surgery or go to the head of the line, you pay. I guess that's two tier, but the lower tier is about equal to what's available in Canada, but with far shorter wait times.

Beer is $10 or more each in their bars and not much cheaper when you buy it in the store. A 10 minute taxi ride costs about the same as taking the train from Stockholm to Oslo and back (8 hours on a train = 10 minutes by taxi). Wealthy people pay far more in taxes than Canada or the US and poor people pay nothing.

Most Swedish workers (about 85%) are unionized. Unskilled laborers have relatively high wages compared to Canada, which explains taxi fares and beer prices, while skilled workers make far less than here in Canada and pay far more taxes.

You are right, that the NDP platform isn't like Sweden. The NDP is not nearly so socialist as the Swedish model.

 

[mentalfloss]

What does this mean ?

economic conduit - Google Search

 

[Durry]

First of all, not only did the Libs/NDP approve every Tory budget, they DEMANDED more spending. The Tories do not wear that one alone.

But even at that, you're right, the Conservatives have not done a very good job. They have not totally done away with support for the "arts", they were still granting money to every idiot NGO with an axe to grind, and they could be quite wasteful otherwise.

So, you want to take the gov't away from amateur spenders.........and hand it over to the pros.

Idiotic.

70 Billion dollars of spending Jack has promised, according to the National Post.....70 billion. Double CPP payments. Cap and trade taxes, .....idiotic

I totally agree.

economic conduit - Google Search

Yep, you know as much about business and economics as Jack does, you can even misuse economic words as well as him.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Who cares what Harper thinks, he lives in a dream world anyway where the laws of physics can be overcome by wishing real hard. The fact that Layton takes climate change seriously is going to save us billions in the coming years if his party gets enough seats to form the government. The oil sector could give a crap about the massive costs already being incured due to climate change, the loss of millions of pine in BC alone is historical, who's going to pay for the costs of all that lost property in the coastal areas as the sea level continues to climb ever higher.

Harper's got one main mission as PM, he made it clear before he even went federal when he said he wanted to build a firewall around Alberta, which is code for protect the petro-chemical industry at the expense of everybody else. Instead of running for Premier of this province he decided he'd expand his firewall and made all of Canada the preserve of big oil. Layton if anything would provide a much more balanced approach to a world that is already experiencing a fundamental transition. Having a government with a conservative mentality in such circumstances is much more concerning than a fresh start with a party who's been around far longer than the fickle reincarnation of the conservatives that have re-invented themselves several times in the past decade or so.

 

[mentalfloss]

By the way, you can put down your $70 Billion dollar fear mongering. Apparently none of the major news sites are posting the revenues.. Gee.. I wonder why.... Probably because those economic infidels are projecting an economic surplus.

Revenues
Corporate Tax Rate Restoraton to 19.5% $9,900
Ending Fossil Fuel Subsidies $2,000
Tax Haven Crackdown $3,200
Crime Legislation Saving $125
Total year by year $15,225

Main Budget Surplus By 2014 $759 Million


Source

 

[lone wolf]

By the way, you can put down your $70 Billion dollar fear mongering. Apparently none of the major news sites are posting the revenues.. Gee.. I wonder why.... Probably because those economic infidels are projecting an economic surplus.

Revenues
Corporate Tax Rate Restoraton to 19.5% $9,900
Ending Fossil Fuel Subsidies $2,000
Tax Haven Crackdown $3,200
Crime Legislation Saving $125
Total year by year $15,225

Main Budget Surplus By 2014 $759 Million


Source

I'd like to see it - but we all know shyte happens. A break-even by 2014 deserves kudos by me....

 

[mt_pockets1000]

And that's the problem with voting against a leader rather than for a candidate based on principle.

My conservative candidate may very well be a fine upstanding individual with principles coming out the yin yang but his boss is a complete tyrant. My conservative candidate may have his constituents best interest at heart but how can he deliver if his boss controls him with a short leash. No, unfortunately Harper has killed it for any honest candidate running on the conservative side.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'd like to see it - but we all know shyte happens. A break-even by 2014 deserves kudos by me....

It's a pretty comprehensive document. I wish conservatives could give us an income statement with a proper breakdown like this, but they'll barely tell us how much they're spending on useless jets. I guess it's because they're economic rock stars.

 

[earth_as_one]

How much is going to cost to build all those prisons? also, who do the Conservatives plan to put in prison? I suspect they plan to make a lot more things illegal and locking up drug addicts. I'm with the NDP on this one. It makes more sense to prevent crime in the first place, then lock people up afterward. I'd rather see that money spent on schools, hospitals, drug counseling and treatment programs, community centers, sports for children... The conservatives believe in user pay systems and cutting social programs. I have no problem with my tax dollars going toward building free basketball courts and skateboard parks, rather than juvenile detention centers and jails.

 

[ironsides]

First off, we don't have a plentiful supply. Second, the fluctuations in price alone would be a fine reason to move away from oil. Third, oil money funds terrorism and corrupt regimes. Fourth, being dependent on a single source for so much of our economy hinders diversification, again making changes in price, or other disruptions more widespread and more painful than they might otherwise be.

For starters, and without even mentioning the environmental harms it does cause.

One more thing we could do, how about we just stop selling/giving them food at ridiculously cheap prices. We are the bread basket of the world. If the don't like it they can eat oil, or sell it at a reasonable price. (1 bushel for 1 barrel)

 

[Avro]

I highly doubt that the government would do what it says it would do with a carbon tax. Gas taxes are supposed to pay for roads and guess what? They don't and it doesn't matter what political stripe of government. Layton would be no different than Harper or Ignatieff or even Elizabeth May. Once that cash flows into Ottawa it will end up in general revenue and bleed into a myriad of projects.

Thinking that Jack Layton will be slugging out for the little guy is beyond naive. It will be Bob Rae all over again, but at a National level and quite possibly worse because I suspect that the NDP is so unprepared to run this Country that they will sink us into a huge mess. You can criticize the Loberals and the Conservatives all you want, but they have run this Country on many occasions and it is a lot easier to sit in opposition and snipe about what a Utopia your party will offer.

Once you are put in the breach its another story altogether.

Perhaps this is the great lesson all the young idealists in Canada need to learn, but the casualties will be large in this particular lesson and I'd bet a couple paychecks on that. If your on the Left I recommend you vote Liberal and if you are on the right you better not sit home because this particular wind of change might just tear apart your way of living.

I know fear-mongering.

Wait a minute.....who are the Loberals and what do they stand for?

....heck I didn't know their was another party.......frickin media.


p.s. fear monger.

 

[TenPenny]

Jack is an idiot.

Sorry. I really am.

I've never seen someone apologize for really being an idiot before.

 

[mentalfloss]

I've never seen someone apologize for really being an idiot before.

And referring to themselves in third person.