Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Socrates the Greek
- Start date
Re: RE: Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!
Protocol comes into play conveniently when it suits. The situation we are falling into with Afghanistan is showing a harsh face to it. I guess if Harper can’t lead in the face of this reality, he’ll do his best to hide that reality.
Muzzling the media, muzzling military brass, muzzling MPs, muzzling scientists, making a political tool out of the Canadian Flag, etc. I really doubt Harper’s supporters would still support these things if they were done by other parties in a leadership position.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/24042006/2/national-dead-soldier-s-father-lobbied-pm-flags-half-mast.html
Dead soldier's father lobbied PM for flags at half-mast before Afghan tragedy
Mon Apr 24, 06:12 PM EST
(first part of article)
OTTAWA (CP) - Just two weeks ago, Lincoln Dinning wrote Prime Minister Stephen Harper asking that federal flags be flown at half-mast in the event of future combat deaths.
That bit of civic lobbying became cruelly prescient - and emotional grist for a growing debate - when the Wingham, Ont., policeman's son, Cpl. Matt Dinning, became one of four Canadian soldiers killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan on the weekend.
In the aftermath, the Conservative government has invoked a return to military protocol and refused to lower the Maple Leaf on Parliament Hill.
"Mr. Dinning had written a letter to the prime minister on April 7 asking that when we did lose a soldier representing Canada, that the flag be lowered to half-mast," MP Robert Thibault, the Liberal veterans affairs critic, said outside the Commons on Monday.
"Since then, Mr. Dinning's son was lost. We are bringing that to the attention of Parliament and our party will be putting a motion before the House to honour Mr. Dinning's request."
The flag decision is just part of a government effort to lower the temperature on official mourning as Afghan casualties climb.
For the first time since the Afghan mission began, media will not be permitted into Canadian Forces Base Trenton, Ont., on Tuesday when the remains of Cpl. Dinning, Bombardier Myles Mansell, Cpl. Randy Payne and Lieut. William Turner are returned to Canadian soil.
That mirrors a U.S. policy that has barred any pictures of the caskets of returning American war dead since the beginning of the Iraq war.
Protocol comes into play conveniently when it suits. The situation we are falling into with Afghanistan is showing a harsh face to it. I guess if Harper can’t lead in the face of this reality, he’ll do his best to hide that reality.
Muzzling the media, muzzling military brass, muzzling MPs, muzzling scientists, making a political tool out of the Canadian Flag, etc. I really doubt Harper’s supporters would still support these things if they were done by other parties in a leadership position.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/24042006/2/national-dead-soldier-s-father-lobbied-pm-flags-half-mast.html
Dead soldier's father lobbied PM for flags at half-mast before Afghan tragedy
Mon Apr 24, 06:12 PM EST
(first part of article)
OTTAWA (CP) - Just two weeks ago, Lincoln Dinning wrote Prime Minister Stephen Harper asking that federal flags be flown at half-mast in the event of future combat deaths.
That bit of civic lobbying became cruelly prescient - and emotional grist for a growing debate - when the Wingham, Ont., policeman's son, Cpl. Matt Dinning, became one of four Canadian soldiers killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan on the weekend.
In the aftermath, the Conservative government has invoked a return to military protocol and refused to lower the Maple Leaf on Parliament Hill.
"Mr. Dinning had written a letter to the prime minister on April 7 asking that when we did lose a soldier representing Canada, that the flag be lowered to half-mast," MP Robert Thibault, the Liberal veterans affairs critic, said outside the Commons on Monday.
"Since then, Mr. Dinning's son was lost. We are bringing that to the attention of Parliament and our party will be putting a motion before the House to honour Mr. Dinning's request."
The flag decision is just part of a government effort to lower the temperature on official mourning as Afghan casualties climb.
For the first time since the Afghan mission began, media will not be permitted into Canadian Forces Base Trenton, Ont., on Tuesday when the remains of Cpl. Dinning, Bombardier Myles Mansell, Cpl. Randy Payne and Lieut. William Turner are returned to Canadian soil.
That mirrors a U.S. policy that has barred any pictures of the caskets of returning American war dead since the beginning of the Iraq war.
RE: Harper has no respect
I just had a funny thought, I believe this could be referred to as the "bush-ification" (play on "de-baath-ification") of Canada
I don't recall "shutting down the media" and "quashing ANY form of debate" as one of the five points the Conservatives were so on about... is there a "secret" sixth point, cos this has NOTHING to do with all the hot air the conservatives were spouting in the election run-up... OH wait it does, the slogan "time for a change" so I guess this is exactly what Canadians were hoping for..... is it???????
I just had a funny thought, I believe this could be referred to as the "bush-ification" (play on "de-baath-ification") of Canada
I don't recall "shutting down the media" and "quashing ANY form of debate" as one of the five points the Conservatives were so on about... is there a "secret" sixth point, cos this has NOTHING to do with all the hot air the conservatives were spouting in the election run-up... OH wait it does, the slogan "time for a change" so I guess this is exactly what Canadians were hoping for..... is it???????
Of course, six point, reform Canada into a tiny America, and then join America as the 51st state in the next mandate. Don't you remember that.
RE: Harper has no respect
I just heard on CTV news that in October 2004 the Conservatives asked that the flag be lowered for a Naval Officer.
It seems that flag lowering was ok for them before they took power.
I just heard on CTV news that in October 2004 the Conservatives asked that the flag be lowered for a Naval Officer.
It seems that flag lowering was ok for them before they took power.
My contempt for this government's disgraceful adherence to the Bush doctrine of endless spouting of patriotic phrases praising the "brave soldiers", then bringing their bodies home in secrecy, justifying their shameful act by saying they are doing it to protect the families' right to grieve privately! I cannot imagine a family that would spurn the nation's respectful acknowledgement of a shared loss, our gratitude for the dead soldier's ultimate sacrifice and to mourn with each devastated family, who will have a lifetime to mourn "privately."
Monday's Globe reported that the flag would no longer fly at half staff to honour our fallen, and I immediately thought, the next thing will be the unreported return of the flag-draped coffins themselves....just like the chicken-hawk bushco government. Sure enough, today's Globe reports the media will not be allowed at the airforce base for the arrival of our latest dead heroes. Harper and his Americanized ministers are dirt beneath my feet!
What kind of country would ask it's young to fight and possibly die on behalf of it's ideals, and then ignore them when they do just that! In my opinion, every mother's child of them should be honoured by our presence, as represented by at least our Governor-General, a half-staff flag flying on parliament hill, and any other form our gratitude can take.
Moreover, there should be a special war tax to be paid by all, with the exception of soldiers, and their families, to ensure that we all accepting such a tax as just a fraction of the burdon we lay on the shoulders of these young people. We should consider it our duty to do so.
Anything less is dishonourable, and would make us a country of cowards....we are not that, don't let our so-called leaders foist such dishonour on us.
Any citizen or news reporter who has the fortitude to ignore this
disgusting order, and makes their way to the airport to meet the returning Canadian soldiers will have my profound respect and regard, and that of millions of Canadians, I'm certain.
Monday's Globe reported that the flag would no longer fly at half staff to honour our fallen, and I immediately thought, the next thing will be the unreported return of the flag-draped coffins themselves....just like the chicken-hawk bushco government. Sure enough, today's Globe reports the media will not be allowed at the airforce base for the arrival of our latest dead heroes. Harper and his Americanized ministers are dirt beneath my feet!
What kind of country would ask it's young to fight and possibly die on behalf of it's ideals, and then ignore them when they do just that! In my opinion, every mother's child of them should be honoured by our presence, as represented by at least our Governor-General, a half-staff flag flying on parliament hill, and any other form our gratitude can take.
Moreover, there should be a special war tax to be paid by all, with the exception of soldiers, and their families, to ensure that we all accepting such a tax as just a fraction of the burdon we lay on the shoulders of these young people. We should consider it our duty to do so.
Anything less is dishonourable, and would make us a country of cowards....we are not that, don't let our so-called leaders foist such dishonour on us.
Any citizen or news reporter who has the fortitude to ignore this
disgusting order, and makes their way to the airport to meet the returning Canadian soldiers will have my profound respect and regard, and that of millions of Canadians, I'm certain.
Why should the Flag half staff only for Soldiers who have been killed in Combat Missions and not those who have been killed in accidents?
PM Harper left the decision up to the Military to lower Flags at half staff at locations they choose. Jean Chretien took that choice away from the Military in 2002. As mounting deaths will occur with Canada in Afghanistan it's left to the MIlitary to lower the Flags at half staff as it should be.
The Author of this thread has no repsect for Fallen Soldiers as he is using the Deaths of Canadian Soldiers to attack PM Harper.
I see more dishonor among the writers here....
...than they can pin on any politicians currently under fire by silly people who don't do their research and homework.
If you don't know the military rules - learn them and stop politicizing the dead.
Uber ignorance! Ugly voices screaming with hate beyond reason.
...than they can pin on any politicians currently under fire by silly people who don't do their research and homework.
If you don't know the military rules - learn them and stop politicizing the dead.
Uber ignorance! Ugly voices screaming with hate beyond reason.
RE: Harper has no respect
Ain't no screaming, some folks are just pointing out that all of this recent war-related stuff seems to be on the top of an agenda wherein no mention of said "war related stuff" was made, if folks were just atacking Harper, how come a lot of the grievances listed here are actual facts??
And I'm not even referring to the flag issue, that's kinda a non-starter with everyone trying to define "traditions"
This veil of secrecy that Harper has cast over the country's highest offices IS a FACT and to some of us a damn frightening one... I don't need to get all strident and pointing fingers, just saying that Harper has really gone whole-hog on the americanization of our country and it is worrisome, since the US is a friggin MESS by pretty much any standard and a lot of the policies that Harper is instituting just so happened to be the exact same things that heralded the descent into fascism that the US has had to suffer... no hatred here at all, just a bit of fear, no disrespect intended, just observation
Ain't no screaming, some folks are just pointing out that all of this recent war-related stuff seems to be on the top of an agenda wherein no mention of said "war related stuff" was made, if folks were just atacking Harper, how come a lot of the grievances listed here are actual facts??
And I'm not even referring to the flag issue, that's kinda a non-starter with everyone trying to define "traditions"
This veil of secrecy that Harper has cast over the country's highest offices IS a FACT and to some of us a damn frightening one... I don't need to get all strident and pointing fingers, just saying that Harper has really gone whole-hog on the americanization of our country and it is worrisome, since the US is a friggin MESS by pretty much any standard and a lot of the policies that Harper is instituting just so happened to be the exact same things that heralded the descent into fascism that the US has had to suffer... no hatred here at all, just a bit of fear, no disrespect intended, just observation
Re: RE: Harper has no respect
Funny, I thought we still had Question Period when the House is sitting, I thought journalists could write what they pleased, I thought political proceedings were still televised.........must have missed something.
I think it is about time our politicians quit following journalists around on their knees.
AND, fascism is one of those words that is abused and overused by people who have no idea what it means.
A open market, democratic, free nation is NOT fascist.
Criticize if you like, but show a little respect for the English language, please.
mabudon said:
Funny, I thought we still had Question Period when the House is sitting, I thought journalists could write what they pleased, I thought political proceedings were still televised.........must have missed something.
I think it is about time our politicians quit following journalists around on their knees.
AND, fascism is one of those words that is abused and overused by people who have no idea what it means.
A open market, democratic, free nation is NOT fascist.
Criticize if you like, but show a little respect for the English language, please.
Re: RE: Harper has no respect
Mabudon
Politicizing the death of soldiers is an ugly position to take - and if you aren't screaming your words are. You offer "no disrespect intended" and then go off again with your Marxist chanting.
Where do you get off insulting the military by bringing all your frustrations with your government and the U.S. in a topic discussing honoring the slain???
Start another thread and get that venom out - it will eat a hole in you if you lock it up - but do not dishonor the men who died.
I've seen so many similar posts like yours - everyone must be copying the same forums.
mabudon said:
Mabudon
Politicizing the death of soldiers is an ugly position to take - and if you aren't screaming your words are. You offer "no disrespect intended" and then go off again with your Marxist chanting.
Where do you get off insulting the military by bringing all your frustrations with your government and the U.S. in a topic discussing honoring the slain???
Start another thread and get that venom out - it will eat a hole in you if you lock it up - but do not dishonor the men who died.
I've seen so many similar posts like yours - everyone must be copying the same forums.
Re: Respect for Fallen Soldiers
Emotions in this debate seem to be getting quite heated. :-S
I would suggest (as I have in another thread) that we could compromise on this issue in a way which would honour those who have given their lives for Canada, while ensuring that the constant lowering of the National Flag would not lead to a sentiment of disrespect toward our members of the Canadian Forces.
Emotions in this debate seem to be getting quite heated. :-S
I would suggest (as I have in another thread) that we could compromise on this issue in a way which would honour those who have given their lives for Canada, while ensuring that the constant lowering of the National Flag would not lead to a sentiment of disrespect toward our members of the Canadian Forces.
- When a member of the Forces is killed on-duty, the National Flag on the Peace Tower is to be lowered to half-mast on the day that the loss is reported, and should be lowered for no more than twenty-four hours. Multiple deaths to not extend this timeframe.
- All other flags, except for those of the affected Defense Headquarters and those in the community of that soldier's "hometown", are to be flown at full-mast, to show that Canada is prepared to move on with a strong resolve, and to continue the "good fight", so to speak.
Re: RE: Harper has no respect
well they certainly can't go wherethey please, in itself an overstatement, so perhaps you did.
help me with the logic here. what does Question Period have to do with the press being allowed to attend and report the return of the fallen? are they now expected to hold pictures up in parliament or something?
Colpy said:
well they certainly can't go wherethey please, in itself an overstatement, so perhaps you did.
help me with the logic here. what does Question Period have to do with the press being allowed to attend and report the return of the fallen? are they now expected to hold pictures up in parliament or something?
Five wrote: When a member of the Forces is killed on-duty, the National Flag on the Peace Tower is to be lowered to half-mast on the day that the loss is reported, and should be lowered for no more than twenty-four hours. Multiple deaths to not extend this timeframe.
All other flags, except for those of the affected Defense Headquarters and those in the community of that soldier's "hometown", are to be flown at full-mast, to show that Canada is prepared to move on with a strong resolve, and to continue the "good fight", so to speak.
Any thoughts?
I have no problem with the above policy, what matters to me is that the families have the support they need when the Media Feeding Frenzy is over.
All other flags, except for those of the affected Defense Headquarters and those in the community of that soldier's "hometown", are to be flown at full-mast, to show that Canada is prepared to move on with a strong resolve, and to continue the "good fight", so to speak.
Any thoughts?
I have no problem with the above policy, what matters to me is that the families have the support they need when the Media Feeding Frenzy is over.