Harper has no respect for the fallen soldiers!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Socrates the Greek
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Re: RE: Harper has no respect
Just on a note, Members of Parliament are not permitted to use props during their statements in the House of Commons. The Speaker would rule the statement out of order, and the comments would be stricken from the Hansard.BitWhys said:
Five; I don't understand why you feel this way? I haven't seen any post that would indicate your view point?
People read not only the last post but a few above it sometimes it helps clarify a subject!
People read not only the last post but a few above it sometimes it helps clarify a subject!
No, the problem is that many Canadians know exactly what the purpose of the invasion was and Harper's worried that publicity surrounding pointless combat deaths will undermine the US agenda. Military deaths, per se, are part of war. They are not a reason to abandon a just war.
It's ironic that the armchair generals who crow about "supporting the troops" are so eager to have them die for nothing.
FiveParadox
All very stylish but this is a discussion forum and most of the writers here are conducting themselves with restraint - even if heated because the topic is one for emotional levels.
Are you actually suggesting we "not talk about it"???
Your remark about the "superiority of the forces" is uncalled for and comes from one who is uninformed. Until you lose someone or wait for someone who has served in active duty you can never comprehend what people are writing here.
This isn't about the latest movie on war - this is real.
All very stylish but this is a discussion forum and most of the writers here are conducting themselves with restraint - even if heated because the topic is one for emotional levels.
Are you actually suggesting we "not talk about it"???
Your remark about the "superiority of the forces" is uncalled for and comes from one who is uninformed. Until you lose someone or wait for someone who has served in active duty you can never comprehend what people are writing here.
This isn't about the latest movie on war - this is real.
Wednesday's Child said:
People are giving thought to the troops and you criticize them for it because the way they care is not they way you wish to see it done. If anyone is politicizing the dead and the war, it’s the Harper Government. It does take a conscience to object to such politicalizing, but maybe you are only trying to see this from one side.
This “you either for us or against us” argument is pretty old now. It is always patriotic to question the leadership. That is what a democracy does and it’s undemocratic to stifle the public voice.
It seems people like to criticize others at both ends when it comes to the soldiers. Either people are faulted for not showing enough concern for the troops, or they are faulted for showing too much concern. It’s just the way you wish to hear it and I think it is very unfair for you to take ownership of the issue.
Would you attack this father the same way? You’ve pinned you words on others for the same.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/24042006/2/national-dead-soldier-s-father-lobbied-pm-flags-half-mast.html
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Yahoo! Canada News
Dead soldier's father lobbied PM for flags at half-mast before Afghan tragedy
Mon Apr 24, 06:12 PM EST
OTTAWA (CP) - Just two weeks ago, Lincoln Dinning wrote Prime Minister Stephen Harper asking that federal flags be flown at half-mast in the event of future combat deaths.
That bit of civic lobbying became cruelly prescient - and emotional grist for a growing debate - when the Wingham, Ont., policeman's son, Cpl. Matt Dinning, became one of four Canadian soldiers killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan on the weekend.
In the aftermath, the Conservative government has invoked a return to military protocol and refused to lower the Maple Leaf on Parliament Hill.
"Mr. Dinning had written a letter to the prime minister on April 7 asking that when we did lose a soldier representing Canada, that the flag be lowered to half-mast," MP Robert Thibault, the Liberal veterans affairs critic, said outside the Commons on Monday.
"Since then, Mr. Dinning's son was lost. We are bringing that to the attention of Parliament and our party will be putting a motion before the House to honour Mr. Dinning's request."
As you wish, Wednesday's Child.
If you think that I am "uninformed", so be it. If you can judge from my posts thus far that I have never lost anyone, then so be it. If you think that my posts are somehow undermining the severity of the situation, then so be it. You have just proven my point — you have judged me, without cause, to be "uninformed" and therefore my opinions are somehow less valid.
If you think that I am "uninformed", so be it. If you can judge from my posts thus far that I have never lost anyone, then so be it. If you think that my posts are somehow undermining the severity of the situation, then so be it. You have just proven my point — you have judged me, without cause, to be "uninformed" and therefore my opinions are somehow less valid.
eleven....
Start your own topic then if you wish to blast away at the government and the stupidity of going to war and the military.
Don't stick your messages in with a discussion about the recent slain members of the Canadian Forces.
Start your own topic then if you wish to blast away at the government and the stupidity of going to war and the military.
Don't stick your messages in with a discussion about the recent slain members of the Canadian Forces.
Wednesday's child:
One does not require a course in history and statistics to know when politicians are disguising their need to lower the public's awareness of the true cost of this war, by ensuring the returning dead soldiers do not make the evening news...we may not be brain surgeons, but we know when we are being snowed...at the expense of true heroes who deserve to be acknowledged by all of us.
I am not the one who is politicizing our honourable dead, and most of us know who is...this pack of government jackals!
By the way, don't under-estimate your own natural talent
in the "UGLY VOICE" department, as displayed in your post!
One does not require a course in history and statistics to know when politicians are disguising their need to lower the public's awareness of the true cost of this war, by ensuring the returning dead soldiers do not make the evening news...we may not be brain surgeons, but we know when we are being snowed...at the expense of true heroes who deserve to be acknowledged by all of us.
I am not the one who is politicizing our honourable dead, and most of us know who is...this pack of government jackals!
By the way, don't under-estimate your own natural talent
in the "UGLY VOICE" department, as displayed in your post!
Sorry Five
I isn't about you at all.
Can't make it happen for you or make it better.
Welcome to the real world.
I isn't about you at all.
Can't make it happen for you or make it better.
Welcome to the real world.
Re: RE: Harper has no respect
Point taken, but I don't see why the return of these soldiers needs to become a circus.
There is nothing wrong with the gov't attempting to prevent a erosion of Canadian national will by the simple expedient of keeping reporters off of military bases. We were told they were killed, there will be coverage of their funerals, etc.
I kind of think Harper's move in this was counter-productive, but I understand the rationale.
As for the bit about question period, etc, I simply mean to say freedom of the press, and the ability to challenge the government are not threatened in Canada.
BitWhys said:
Point taken, but I don't see why the return of these soldiers needs to become a circus.
There is nothing wrong with the gov't attempting to prevent a erosion of Canadian national will by the simple expedient of keeping reporters off of military bases. We were told they were killed, there will be coverage of their funerals, etc.
I kind of think Harper's move in this was counter-productive, but I understand the rationale.
As for the bit about question period, etc, I simply mean to say freedom of the press, and the ability to challenge the government are not threatened in Canada.
Re: Wednesday's Child's Assertions
Where members of our honoured Canadian Forces are being returned home after having given their lives for Canada, I think that we need to determine the best way to honour their lives. I don't care whether or not the past protocol dictates that this should be done one way or another — if the current population thinks that there is a more appropriate way to express our sorrow for their loss, and our gratitude for their services — if the current population feels a resolve to find an appropriate way to honour our daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts, siblings and our dearest friends — then we should discuss those alternatives.
With due respect, I cannot — in good conscience — subscribe to the "real world" that some of the membership of Canadian Content has seemed to accept. Where we have an issue, I think that it needs to be resolved and changed, where necessary — where there is a debate, I think that each side needs to be heard with due attention (and scrutiny, of course).Wednesday's Child said:
Where members of our honoured Canadian Forces are being returned home after having given their lives for Canada, I think that we need to determine the best way to honour their lives. I don't care whether or not the past protocol dictates that this should be done one way or another — if the current population thinks that there is a more appropriate way to express our sorrow for their loss, and our gratitude for their services — if the current population feels a resolve to find an appropriate way to honour our daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts, siblings and our dearest friends — then we should discuss those alternatives.
My Question to those who think the Flag should be at half staff everytime a Canadian Soldier is killed, should there be a the kind of memorial service every time a Canadian Soldier is killed like the one that was held in 2002 for the other Four Canadian Soldiers killed in the Friendly Fire accident? (That Memorial Service filled Rexall Place, that's where the Edmonton Oilers Play).
Pm Harper has left the decision of where to flay the Flag at half staff up to the Military as it was their decision before Jean Chretien took it away from them. Of course this will not stop those select few who are using it to attack PM Harper.
Pm Harper has left the decision of where to flay the Flag at half staff up to the Military as it was their decision before Jean Chretien took it away from them. Of course this will not stop those select few who are using it to attack PM Harper.
Colpy said:
LOL - back to reality for me too Colpy!
I wish I could be as placid and friendly and upbeat as the avatars!!!
Thanks for the sunlight for a bit - I get too wound up with this topic and should avoid it but someone I feel I have to defend those I love.
Re: RE: Harper has no respect
First of all, reporters and cameras kept at a respectful distance is NOT a "media circus". Secondly there is EVERYTHING wrong with Harper trying to control the "will of the people" by controlling the press. That's the whole point. It is prima facia POLITICIZING and you would be well served to stick to the party bromide.
Finally, to think that news coverage, especially when done responsibly and respectfully is somehow a "challenge to the government" in itself betrays a defensive insecurity about the underlying issues and exposes the true motives behind the new policy.
If things really are as they say they are, with exception to the myth about the "media circus" because I don't accept that premise at all, about why this is happening then all I can say is shame, president Harper, shame.
Colpy said:
First of all, reporters and cameras kept at a respectful distance is NOT a "media circus". Secondly there is EVERYTHING wrong with Harper trying to control the "will of the people" by controlling the press. That's the whole point. It is prima facia POLITICIZING and you would be well served to stick to the party bromide.
Finally, to think that news coverage, especially when done responsibly and respectfully is somehow a "challenge to the government" in itself betrays a defensive insecurity about the underlying issues and exposes the true motives behind the new policy.
If things really are as they say they are, with exception to the myth about the "media circus" because I don't accept that premise at all, about why this is happening then all I can say is shame, president Harper, shame.
Wednesday's Child said:
My posts are totally on topic with this forum and I resent you saying I can’t have a voice here with my opinions. You obviously didn’t read my posts accurately. I didn’t say anything about “stupidity of going to war and the military.” In this forum, I’ve criticized how issues surrounding fallen soldiers are being handled. Totally on topic.
Why don’t you leave the job of policing the forum to the moderators. I’m not telling you what you can say here regardless of whether your reasoning holds validity beyond emotions.
Soldiers comfortable with decision to bar media from arrival of dead in Canada
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KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - The grief of war widows and families is an intensely private matter that doesn't need to be on display for the whole country to see, a number of Canada's fighting troops said Tuesday.
Still raw from the events of last weekend, when Taliban militants attacked and killed four Canadian soldiers, the Conservative government's decision to ban the media from covering the arrival ceremonies of war casualties back in Canada was greeted with cautious approval.
"They already know when someone dies down here," said Bombardier Hugo Girouard, a gunner from Shilo, Man.
"Why dramatize more what is already dramatic?"
When asked what their biggest concern would be should something happen to them, very nearly all the soldiers who agreed to speak Tuesday said they preferred grieving family members be shielded from what they consider to be the sometimes ruthless intensity of the media spotlight.
In late March, when Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a possible friendly fire incident in nearby Helmand province, many soldiers reacted with horror and disgust when specifics of his autopsy made headlines in a national newspaper.
"All of the details shouldn't be given to the Canadian public because I don't think they need to know everything," said Girouard.
Whenever a soldier dies overseas, there are usually two so-called ramp ceremonies to which the media have open access.
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n042533A.xml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - The grief of war widows and families is an intensely private matter that doesn't need to be on display for the whole country to see, a number of Canada's fighting troops said Tuesday.
Still raw from the events of last weekend, when Taliban militants attacked and killed four Canadian soldiers, the Conservative government's decision to ban the media from covering the arrival ceremonies of war casualties back in Canada was greeted with cautious approval.
"They already know when someone dies down here," said Bombardier Hugo Girouard, a gunner from Shilo, Man.
"Why dramatize more what is already dramatic?"
When asked what their biggest concern would be should something happen to them, very nearly all the soldiers who agreed to speak Tuesday said they preferred grieving family members be shielded from what they consider to be the sometimes ruthless intensity of the media spotlight.
In late March, when Pte. Robert Costall was killed in a possible friendly fire incident in nearby Helmand province, many soldiers reacted with horror and disgust when specifics of his autopsy made headlines in a national newspaper.
"All of the details shouldn't be given to the Canadian public because I don't think they need to know everything," said Girouard.
Whenever a soldier dies overseas, there are usually two so-called ramp ceremonies to which the media have open access.
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n042533A.xml