I second the motion about special interest groups - Chreteins election reform was to reduce their participation in elections but instead they have moved in to mainstream government as paid consultants and senators and communication directors
Harper Appoints Nine Senators
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I second the motion about special interest groups - Chreteins election reform was to reduce their participation in elections but instead they have moved in to mainstream government as paid consultants and senators and communication directors
No it isn't, the thread topic is Harper's appointment of Senators. He's not bad for doing that, he's just a hypocrite. That is all.
In some ways, everything but the status quo is a special interest though.
Electoral reform is no different. As long as you want to vote either Liberal or Conservative and especially if you want to vote Bloq Quebecois, it is not in your interests to see it changed. Because then the system really favors your vote, especially for the Bloq, whew.
Similarly for the senate. Historically, the Liberals have dominated the house and so the Liberals dominate the Senate. The idea of having a non-politically motivated upper house is a noble one, but the reality is quite different. How many senators have crossed the floor? How many are truly willing to listen to their ``people'' and not their party's whip? The ideal of the senate and the reality are two different things.
You know, I understand why people say one thing and do another. Sometimes when we get to the reality of the situation, it is much different than how we thought it would be. I'm an idealist, I realize this. This is why I don't really care when people flip-flop----if they admit it! People who don't want to admit their mistakes are trying to act as if they are more than human in my eyes. I understand the difficulty that Harper faces in getting senate reform passed, what with needing to prorogue all the time, but all signs point to his giving up on it totally.
So yeah, senate reform is a special interest. But here I thought we had someone to champion the cause and make everyone see the need. So ideally, I would deserve an apology, but in reality so many politicians are walking rectums trying to appear like they smell like perfume.
And so is anyone that condemns Harpo, whilst they ignore or defended the LIberals in wrong doing, by using the "Well look what the Cons did" defense.
It is hard and messy to fix any system - even reforming it is a long road - Trying to make the system work better is a more profitable road to travel on - Harper throwing his hands up in the air about the Senate changes nothing.
Who used the "well look what the Cons did" defense here? Hint, it was people bringing up GST and other non-related issues.
Neither do I. In fact, I hate the term flip-flop. Changing ones mind is a sign of open mindedness. The last thing we should do is criticize somebody for changing their minds.
Agreed on that point, provided the change of mind is because of a new light shed on the issue for the person rather than for political reasons.
Remember the board that Paul Martin set up for review of political appointments that Harper quashed so he could set up his own board but the opposition didn't like who Harper appointed to run the board so he just dissolved the board and left these political appointments to be decided by his highness himself. He has appointed over 200 superior court judges - over 3,000 other appointments have been confirmed or reaffirmed during his tenure. 2 more years of minority rule he will have the Senate and the public service at a point that the Libs had enjoyed for many years.
But atleast we have the accountability act - I can sleep now!
But atleast we have the accountability act - I can sleep now!
You know what I noticed?
An absolute howl of outrage here when Harper tries to bring the Senate back into some reasonable balance by using partisan appointments.....obviously an absolute political necessity. The only possible course, IMHO.
Howls of outrage!
But, let Harper make an astoundingly NONpartisan appointment to an office more important by far than any single Senator's seat (Gary Doer, NDP, to be our ambassador in Washington) and not a WORD!!!
Hmmmmm
An absolute howl of outrage here when Harper tries to bring the Senate back into some reasonable balance by using partisan appointments.....obviously an absolute political necessity. The only possible course, IMHO.
Howls of outrage!
But, let Harper make an astoundingly NONpartisan appointment to an office more important by far than any single Senator's seat (Gary Doer, NDP, to be our ambassador in Washington) and not a WORD!!!
Hmmmmm
I do not believe many people outside of Manitoba even know Mr Doer - He has been rather low on my radar. Not that it is a bad thing! - I think for Canada it is a good thing - I think for Mr Harper he may have unleashed a maverick which may bite Harper in the butt - I think it is a win - win in that case.
Beats Jean Chretein's nephew's accomplishments and Mr Doerhas not even started!
Beats Jean Chretein's nephew's accomplishments and Mr Doerhas not even started!
I don't ever recall Harper casually mentioning reforms to our system of Embassies, Ambassadors and High Commissioners, or specifically saying he wouldn't appoint a single one.
Hmmmmm indeed.
True enough......
At the same time, the realities of government (now and in the future) required
he re-establish some balance in the Upper House. It was the best thing he could do....politics is the science of the possible, and Senate Reform seems impossible.
I'm sure if Harper pressed the provinces, he could have come up with elections for Senators. Politics is also give and take, and the provinces always want more from Ottawa. Whether it's more money, more autonomy, or both... They always want more of something.
Like I said earlier, he didn't even try. Or if he did, he was conspicuously quiet about how he did. Which really isn't his style at all.
Like I said earlier, he didn't even try. Or if he did, he was conspicuously quiet about how he did. Which really isn't his style at all.
I'm an Ontarian, supposedly the most self-centred province in Canada, and I am very familiar with Mr. Doer.
A good statesman, very moderate for an NDPer. He'll probably be Layton's replacement someday. Probably why Harper gave him the post, to keep him from being a threat for votes in the West.
No. Having an election for a senator is not cheap. Seeing as Harpo's future in the PMO is unknown I, as a Premier, would not waste tax dollars on an election. Iggy has shown no interest in appointing elected senators, nor did Dion before him.
????
Ummmm Doer couldn't get arrested in Alberta. Saskatchewan is just realizing what they can achieve when they distance themselves from Dipper policy. Manitoba has not moved anymore to the left federally since Doer became Premier. BC is...well...BC is BC.
Whatever you are smokin', Unforgiven would probably like some.
I was referring to the option that Elections Canada could chip in. Who cares what the Liberals interests are? They didn't mention Senate reform in any of their campaigns.
Sometimes the choir members are all singing different tunes and can't get their poop in a group.
Ditto, except for the part about being long-winded. You did that job.
Um, speaking of special interest groups, that is all we have in Canada are myriads of special interest groups. Geee, we all have an agenda of sorts. My point is that not much will change unless we can all find common ground and ACT accordingly.
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