Hamas attacks Israel

[Ron in Regina]

They are not POW's.
POWs are protected under the Geneva Convention. They are not.
They are Hostages.

Unless he’s using a different definition, applied to an entity that’s not a signatory to the Geneva convention…or something else, etc…I also agree that they’re hostages.

Ironically (or Iranically?), does Hamas even consider the Israeli hostages as prisoners of war (they themselves call the hostages “the captives”)? According to Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzouk, the group considers captives who are citizens of both Israel and another country to be Israeli and will not release them until Israel agrees to a ceasefire…so if Hamas doesn’t even make that distinction…what distinction do they make between POW’s & hostages?

What we know about the captives taken by Hamas

Hamas says it is ready to release its prisoners in exchange for the freedom of all Palestinians jailed by Israel.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Taxslave2]

If they win, those guys will be heroes.

No, they will still be terrorists. It just shows how little respect the NDP and their ilk have for democracy and human rights.

 

[Taxslave2]

They are IDF captured at a military base. Read the post. Dont assume.

I did. They do not fit the definition of POW. Except maybe to a Jew hater. Either way, there are rules about treatment of POWs, and threatening rape is outside the rules.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Not necessarily…being military personnel, I mean, but…they have to be involved or following the troops or…there’s a whole list of prerequisites, & must extend beyond the fact that they were Israelis inside of Israel on Oct 7th.

You’re correct. Same with hiding them and not disclosing their status or location. As currently defined by the Geneva Convention, these people are not prisoners of war, but hostages based upon the actions of Palestinians, Hamas & Friends, etc…but maybe the Geneva convention definition is not the definition being used???

Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[petros]

Maybe I should expand a bit. These particular five women, where unarmed IDF Spotters, at a military base, the morning of October 7th 2023….when approximately 3000 Palestinians (including Hamas and other militant groups in amongst the Palestinian civilians) entered Israel to do what they did.

Yes, these five women in particular were IDF unarmed spotters at the Nahal Oz military base in Israel. That’s why I called them Spotters above in post# 2533, and explained that they where non-combat soldiers (=IDF) in trying to inquire as to what definition was being used to consider them as POW’s. These 5 women are 5/7 taken from that military base Oct 7th, that haven’t be repatriated alive or otherwise.

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That morning about 500 hostages were taken, but about half of them were rescued before they were taken outside of Israel.

Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the 7 months, 2 weeks, & 4 days since this happened, have these five women and the other (who knows how many surviving hostages there really are?) Israelis kidnapped that day being treated as POW’s (?) or are they being treated as Hostages? There is a difference.

By what definition are you considering these five woman as prisoners of war? Granted, Hamas (the governing body of Gaza) are not going to be signatories to the Geneva convention, but if that’s the definition you’re using…there’s more to being a POW than the initial capture.
View attachment 22225Depending on the definition that you’re using with respect to POW’s, 77-year old Hanna Katsir or 13-year old Yagil Yaakov might also have been (or not) prisoners of war…but without you explaining your definition of POW’s regarding these five woman in particular, who knows?

Does this sound like the treatment of prisoners of war? It might depending on the definition I guess…
View attachment 22227
View attachment 22228

IDF is IDF. They are or they aren't. Even if they only sang in a choir.

 

[petros]

I did. They do not fit the definition of POW. Except maybe to a Jew hater. Either way, there are rules about treatment of POWs, and threatening rape is outside the rules.

Is it okay to hate Netanyahu because he's a garden variety Polish atheist?

 

[Ron in Regina]

IDF is IDF. They are or they aren't. Even if they only sang in a choir.

…& Prisoners of war are prisoners of war, and hostages are hostages, and soldiers are soldiers, & civilians are civilians, etc…and they’re different than each other…depending on the definition(s) being used for the above.

Is it okay to hate Netanyahu because he's a garden variety Polish atheist?

Polish atheist? Ok. The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols constitute a part of Polish domestic legal order as ratified international agreements and they have precedence over domestic laws.

http://www.un.org/en/ga/sixth/63/Addtl_Prot_TEXT/Poland.pdf

Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw (or Israel? Depending on the source) in partitioned Poland, which was under Russian control, to Sarah (Lurie) and the writer and Zionist activist Nathan Mileikowsky.

Born to secular Jewish parents, Netanyahu was raised in West Jerusalem and the United States. He returned to Israel in 1967 to join the Israel Defense Forces, was in the Sayeret Matkal special forces as a captain before being honorably discharged. Benjamin Netanyahu is not overly religious by any means…but understands (or did) his voter base.

Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, by what definition are the five SOLDIERS being referred to in the last dozen or so post’s prisoners of war?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Unless he’s using a different definition, applied to an entity that’s not a signatory to the Geneva convention…or something else, etc…I also agree that they’re hostages.

Ironically (or Iranically?), does Hamas even consider the Israeli hostages as prisoners of war (they themselves call the hostages “the captives”)? According to Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzouk, the group considers captives who are citizens of both Israel and another country to be Israeli and will not release them until Israel agrees to a ceasefire…so if Hamas doesn’t even make that distinction…what distinction do they make between POW’s & hostages?

What we know about the captives taken by Hamas

Hamas says it is ready to release its prisoners in exchange for the freedom of all Palestinians jailed by Israel.

www.aljazeera.com

They don't. That's why they are cool with killing women and children, and tactical rape.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

 

[petros]

…& Prisoners of war are prisoners of war, and hostages are hostages, and soldiers are soldiers, & civilians are civilians, etc…and they’re different than each other…depending on the definition(s) being used for the above.

Polish atheist? Ok. The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols constitute a part of Polish domestic legal order as ratified international agreements and they have precedence over domestic laws.

http://www.un.org/en/ga/sixth/63/Addtl_Prot_TEXT/Poland.pdf

Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw (or Israel? Depending on the source) in partitioned Poland, which was under Russian control, to Sarah (Lurie) and the writer and Zionist activist Nathan Mileikowsky.

Born to secular Jewish parents, Netanyahu was raised in West Jerusalem and the United States. He returned to Israel in 1967 to join the Israel Defense Forces, was in the Sayeret Matkal special forces as a captain before being honorably discharged. Benjamin Netanyahu is not overly religious by any means…but understands (or did) his voter base.

Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, by what definition are the five SOLDIERS being referred to in the last dozen or so post’s prisoners of war?

Is what is it at this point. Those IDF POWs are bargaining chips beyond civilians.


Benzion Mileikowsky (Bibi) is a secular Jew (atheist).

For a guy like that to say God gave them Israel is irrational and bullshit.

 

[spaminator]

Hamas father and son confess to murder, rape and kidnapping at kibbutz: Report
The duo were captured in March by the IDF

Author of the article:Jane Stevenson
Published May 24, 2024 • 1 minute read

In horrific video confessions obtained by Britain’s Daily Mail, a father and son told Israeli investigators how they killed, raped and kidnapped innocent civilians during the Oct. 7 Hamas invasion.


Jamal Hussein Ahmad Radi, 47, and his son Abdallah, 18, who were captured by Israel Defense Forces members in Gaza in March, spoke of their crimes in the Nir Oz kibbutz close to the border.


The duo, handcuffed and dressed in grey tracksuits, are seen sitting in front of an Israeli flag as they are questioned in Arabic by the Shin Bet security service at a secret location.

“In each house where we found someone, we either killed them or kidnapped them,” said father-of-seven Radi, who is a member of the Hamas Security Service.

“In the first house I found a woman and her husband, and we hit them with fire and killed them … they were in their late 40s.”



He then confessed to how he had raped one woman.

“She was screaming, she was crying, I did what I did, I raped her. I threatened her with my gun to take her clothes off. I remember she was wearing jean shorts. That’s about it. I don’t know what happened to her. I was there for fifteen minutes and then I left.’”

Abdallah said his father killed the woman.

“My father raped her, then I did and then my cousin did and then we left but my father killed the woman after we finished raping her. Before this woman, we had raped another girl as well. I killed two people. I raped two people. And I broke into five houses.”

The father and son Hamas rapists

Shameless Jamal Hussein Ahmad Radi, 47, and his son Abdallah, 18, were captured by IDF forces in Gaza and questioned about the atrocities they committed in a kibbutz close to the border

dailymail.co.uk

Hamas father and son confess to murder, rape and kidnapping at kibbutz: Report

In horrific video confessions, a father and son told Israeli investigators how they raped and killed innocent civilians on Oct. 7.

torontosun.com

 

[Ron in Regina]

Is what is it at this point. Those IDF POWs are bargaining chips beyond civilians.

What is your definition of POW beyond the fact that some of the Israeli hostages are soldiers on Oct 7th (?) as that’s only a portion (with most definitions) of the qualification of classification of POW?

Benzion Mileikowsky (Bibi) is a secular Jew (atheist).

For a guy like that to say God gave them Israel is irrational and bullshit.

I wonder how he defines God?

 

[petros]

What is your definition of POW beyond the fact that some of the Israeli hostages are soldiers on Oct 7th (?) as that’s only a portion (with most definitions) of the qualification of classification of POW?

I wonder how he defines God?

Is this a Special Military Operatjon or war?

North of Israel Azoz took and were taken POWs.

Oddly POW in Ukrainian is the same in Hebrew.

Why? What different?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Is this a Special Military Operatjon or war?

North of Israel Azoz took and were taken POWs.

Oddly POW in Ukrainian is the same in Hebrew.

Why? What different?

What is your definition of POW beyond the fact that some of the Israeli hostages are soldiers on Oct 7th (?) as that’s only a portion (with most definitions) of the qualification of classification of POW?

??? What is different might be how it’s being defined? How are you defining what a POW is? You state that these five women who were/are IDF Spotters are POW’s, so yes they are soldiers, but under what definition are they POW’s? The Geneva Convention definition or a different definition?

Right now these five women in particular, happen to be soldiers that have been taken hostage. There’s more to being a prisoner of war than being captured, unless you’re using some very different definition?

 

[petros]

??? What is different might be how it’s being defined? How are you defining what a POW is? You state that these five women who were/are IDF Spotters are POW’s, so yes they are soldiers, but under what definition are they POW’s? The Geneva Convention definition or a different definition?

Right now these five women in particular, happen to be soldiers that have been taken hostage. There’s more to being a prisoner of war than being captured, unless you’re using some very different definition?

Geneva? That outdated bullshit? Thats for old wars that still had horses.

Have you heard of Azov Batallion fighting "Little Green Men" In Donbass? Were they terrorists or a volunteer paramilitary?

When they captured soldiers were they hostages or POWs?

 

[Ron in Regina]

So…you aren’t going to define how you’re defining prisoner of war then?

 

[petros]

So…you aren’t going to define how you’re defining prisoner of war then?

Soldiers capturing soldiers. What were you thinking?

Who declared war for there to be rules? Sinwar or Mileikowsky?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Soldiers capturing soldiers. What were you thinking?

Who declared war for there to be rules? Sinwar or Mileikowsky?

Well, are Hamas soldiers or recognized terrorists? Israel declared war on Hamas, but not before the hostages were taken so they count as prisoners of war?

I guess with no rules, these hostages, all 253 or whatever, are all prisoners of war then…from 10 months of age through the geriatric octogenarians, and everyone involved on all sides of this goat rodeo can all be considered coffee tables in addition to hostage prisoners of war captives, etc…

 

[petros]

Well, are Hamas soldiers or recognized terrorists? Israel declared war on Hamas, but not before the hostages were taken so they count as prisoners of war?

I guess with no rules, these hostages, all 253 or whatever, are all prisoners of war then…from 10 months of age through the geriatric octogenarians, and everyone involved on all sides of this goat rodeo can all be considered coffee tables in addition to hostage prisoners of war captives, etc…

Occupying another's lands violates Geneva Convention. Israel doesnt recognize the ICC, should occupied Palestine recognize it?

Is Azov a terrorist group or military?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Occupying another's lands violates Geneva Convention. Israel doesnt recognize the ICC, should occupied Palestine recognize it?

Is Azov a terrorist group or military?

Who’s occupying whose land, according to what? Israel wasn’t in Gaza on Oct 6th, but Palestinians & Hamas & Friends were sure in Israel Oct 7th.

Or are you going back to 1967 borders, 1948 borders, 1919 borders, etc…? Or are you referring to something else again that you haven’t expanded upon yet?

Is it ‘cuz Israel is on land that’s between the Jordan River or the Mediterranean Sea?

Is it ‘cuz the 1967 borders changed with that war? Is it ‘cuz the 1948 borders changed with that war?

The war began when Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israelon 7 October, involving a barrage of several thousand rockets concurrent to an estimated 3,000 militants breaching the Gaza–Israel barrier and attacking Israeli civilian communities and military bases. During this attack, 1,139 Israelis and foreign nationals including 766 civilians and 373 security personnel were killed,https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Hamas_war#cite_note-115 while 252 Israelis and foreigners were taken captive to the Gaza Strip. Hamas said its attack was in response to Israel's expansion of settlements, persisting blockade, and threats to the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

After clearing militants from its territory, Israel tightened its blockade and launched one of the most destructive bombing campaigns in modern history, before commencing a large-scale ground invasion on 27 October with the stated objectives of destroying Hamas and releasing the hostages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war