Hamas attacks Israel

pgs

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I’ve no idea what Responsibilities go along with non-voting UN membership, or what this really means in the long run, but I’m assuming it’ll mean that Palestine will become responsible for itself (?) as opposed to Israel’s responsibility to provide Palestine & Palestinians with power or water or whatever (??) or not?

Then boundaries that would go along with UN membership? It could be based upon 1967 borders (?) or 1949 borders (?) or something else completely different (?) or something else it would still have to negotiate?
Where is Balfour when you need him ?
 
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Ron in Regina

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67 is when the occupation of West Bank and Gaza started as posted above.
Started by whom? Jordan & Egypt? Oh wait, they were already being occupied (Gaza by Egypt, & the West Bank by Jordan) since…not ‘67…but ‘49. Hmmm…so why 1967 for your point? Because it’s not Muslims occupying Gaza & the West Bank while ignoring those who identify as Palestinians?
Who promised an Israel? Nobody.
Is that what you've been guilted into believing?
I haven’t been “guilted” into believing anything. My ancestors weren’t saints (you don’t earn one way trips to Australia for humanitarian reasons generally like my ancestors), but their paths didn’t intersect Israel or Jews to the best of my knowledge so I don’t have that guilt.
All that was ever promised was a place to live IN Palestine when nobody else wanted them in Asia, Europe or the Americas.
The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181 (II). The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States linked economically and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem and its surroundings.
Putin invaded Ukraine then declared it Russia just like Jews decided to take up arms and declare an Israel.
Putin (& in turn Russia) declared this themselves.

The winners in the spoils of the defeated Ottoman Empire, and later the (cough) UN arranged and set in motion the origin of Israel in 1948 as a nation state.
It's the fucking same.
Ok, or see above links.
There wasn't a beef with Russians living in Ukraine until the "green men" came along.
1715403847209.jpeg
 

petros

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Started by whom? Jordan & Egypt? Oh wait, they were already being occupied (Gaza by Egypt, & the West Bank by Jordan) since…not ‘67…but ‘49. Hmmm…so why 1967 for your point? Because it’s not Muslims occupying Gaza & the West Bank while ignoring those who identify as Palestinians?


I haven’t been “guilted” into believing anything. My ancestors weren’t saints (you don’t earn one way trips to Australia for humanitarian reasons generally like my ancestors), but their paths didn’t intersect Israel or Jews to the best of my knowledge so I don’t have that guilt.

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181 (II). The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States linked economically and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem and its surroundings.

Putin (& in turn Russia) declared this themselves.

The winners in the spoils of the defeated Ottoman Empire, and later the (cough) UN arranged and set in motion the origin of Israel in 1948 as a nation state.

Ok, or see above links.

View attachment 22073
Does it matter who started it?

Reads closer. Nobody promised an Israel.
 

Ron in Regina

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Does it matter who started it?
Not for the civilians on both sides.
Reads closer. Nobody promised an Israel.
Israeli military spokesman Peter Lerner said on CNN that the military had put its own forces at risk when it told people to evacuate ahead of time, losing the element of surprise. Nevertheless, he said, it would continue to make such pre-operation announcements to protect civilians.

“We didn’t start the operation until we had seen the evacuation had commenced,” he said.
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So, going forward, whom will represent Palestine in the UN? The PA (?) or the PA for the West Bank and (the non-functional?) Hamas for Gaza? Do they recognize each others authority and share their right to non-vote on UN motions?

Among the G20, ten countries (Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and Turkey) have recognized Palestine as a state, while nine countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, the United Kingdom, and the United States) have not. Although these countries generally support some form of a two-state solution to the conflict, they take the position that their recognition of a Palestinian state is conditioned to direct negotiations between Israel and the PA (with no mention of Hamas, functional or not).
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So Israel has occupied the West Bank & Gaza (From Jordan & Egypt) since 1967 which was two decades before 1988 and the declaration of the establishment of the state of Palestine by the PLO. That’s a Trudeau level of moving the goal posts.

On 15th November 1988, PNC, the legislative body of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) led by Yasser Arafat, declared the establishment of Palestine. Signing of the Oslo Accords in the 1990s, negotiated between Israel and the PLO, aimed to establish a government. In 2007, internal divisions between Palestinian political factions led to a takeover of the Gaza Strip by Hamas. Since then, the West Bank has been governed by the Palestinian National Authority, led by Fatah, and the Gaza Strip under the control of Hamas.

The Palestinian Authority governs parts of the West Bank while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip. Who governs the sovereign nation state of Palestine?
 

petros

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Would you invade a city just to get rid of Ellie May and her 10 powerless Green Party members just to feel good about there not being a Green Party?
 

Ron in Regina

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Would you invade a city just to get rid of Ellie May and her 10 powerless Green Party members just to feel good about there not being a Green Party?
I’m trying to get across that there’s currently more questions than answers regarding Palestines new status as a non-voting sovereign state (?) in the UN, and hoping others might have stumbled across information to which they would post a link showing not only the rights and privileges but also the responsibilities of this newly accepted position, etc…& how this may affect the ongoing kerfuffle.

Are they (Israelis, who were never promised a rose garden) just invading a city over Ellie May and her 10 Friends (link to confirm numbers?) or are the portion of the 130-ish surviving hostages from that date in Oct 2023 (I think Shemini Atzeret happened on that date) a factor in the continuing goat rodeo?
 
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petros

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They (Likud) don't give a flying fuck about hostages or nuke servers. They had no issues martyring 1200 in the first fucking place.
 

Ron in Regina

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They (Likud) don't give a flying fuck about hostages or nuke servers. They had no issues martyring 1200 in the first fucking place.
So the Israelis were warned that a Hamas (Or Hezbollah, or Houthi, or others, etc…) attack was a possibility (like from most of their neighbours for more that 3/4’s of the last century…and specifically from the Iranian sponsored groups for the last 4+ decades, and they should’ve know better since 1973 (Yom Kippur War, fourth of the Arab-Israeli wars, which was initiated by Egypt and Syria on October 6, 1973, on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur) that an attack could be initiated on a holy day for the Jews, so they should have been at heightened preparedness on every holiday and every day ending in a “Y” at all times without a break in vigilance no matter what…for decades…so they’re guilty of complicity with Hamas and sacrificing their own citizen population on Oct 7th 2023 then? Am I following this correctly?

Therefore, because Hamas & Friends managed what they did means that…that the right leaning Israeli political party must have allowed it to happen and should have expected this coordinated attack at 6am-ish on a Saturday on a holiday ‘cuz similar happened 44 years earlier by Egypt and Syria armed forces.

So because the “Likud” don’t give a flying fig about Israeli hostages or “nuke servers”of Hamas & Palestinians & other Gaza Militants, that’s why Israel didn’t declare war against Hamas and why this fell out of the news cycle seven months ago (?) why we’re not discussing and debating this today? That about where we’re at?

Anyway, yesterday Palestine was recognized as a sovereign state without voting rights (so a voice without teeth) in the UN and what does that mean in the context of the current Hamas/Israeli war in Gaza? Anyone? Is Israel (that doesn’t care about their hostage’d population or “nuke servers”) now turning the other cheek (if they didn’t already on Oct 8th?) and are not gathering to roll into Rafah to remove the remaining 10 Hamas and the Ellie May leader (and tunnel infrastructure and military hardware, etc…) in the days to come, so Biden isn’t posturing on an election year against American made munitions possibly being used in a military campaign that isn’t happening?

If that’s not what’s happening, then maybe the Israelis (and the Likud party) do, or at least pay lip service to, care about hostages and maybe even the nuke servers taken on Oct 7th. Just trying to offer an alternate viewpoint for debate.
 

petros

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So the Israelis were warned that a Hamas (Or Hezbollah, or Houthi, or others, etc…) attack was a possibility
Yes. Mossad knew a year ago as previously posted months ago.

Israeli officials obtained Hamas's battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.Dec 2, 2023

https://www.nytimes.com › world

Israel Knew Hamas's Attack Plan Over a Year Ago - The New York Times

 

Ron in Regina

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Ok. So is it an intelligence fuck up (?) or an intentional sacrifice of 1500 people on a holiday for nefarious purposes?

On the subject of intelligence, the Biden administration, working urgently to stave off a full-scale Israeli invasion of Rafah, is offering Israel valuable assistance if it holds back, including sensitive intelligence to help the Israeli military pinpoint the location of Hamas leaders and find the group’s hidden tunnels, according to four people familiar with the U.S. offers….meaning America holds this information but hasn’t provided it to Israel? How very….interesting?
So America knows where Hamas leaders are hiding (?) and tunnels are located (?) but would rather Israel stumbles through Rafah with tanks and on foot to find these things out things themselves (?) but’ll share this if they don’t?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Ok. So is it an intelligence fuck up (?) or an intentional sacrifice of 1500 people on a holiday for nefarious purposes?

On the subject of intelligence, the Biden administration, working urgently to stave off a full-scale Israeli invasion of Rafah, is offering Israel valuable assistance if it holds back, including sensitive intelligence to help the Israeli military pinpoint the location of Hamas leaders and find the group’s hidden tunnels, according to four people familiar with the U.S. offers….meaning America holds this information but hasn’t provided it to Israel? How very….interesting?
So America knows where Hamas leaders are hiding (?) and tunnels are located (?) but would rather Israel stumbles through Rafah with tanks and on foot to find these things out things themselves (?) but’ll share this if they don’t?
No, we're offering Nut n' Yahoo valuable intelligence and demanding a quid pro quo in the form of restraint. That's how trade works.
 
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Ron in Regina

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Would you invade a city just to get rid of Ellie May and her 10 powerless Green Party members just to feel good about there not being a Green Party?
Sounds like there might be a few more than 10 & Ellie May. Hamas will not submit or surrender. Israel claims that half of Hamas's fighters have been killed but every day the IQB demonstrates that it is still capable of fierce resistance. There remain at least five active battalions, now broken down into mobile guerrilla units, in Rafah alone.
Oh well…Fierce battles were under way across much of the devastated north of Gaza on Sunday, with heavy bombardment and airstrikes reported as Israeli forces attacked Hamas militants in areas that have already seen repeated rounds of fighting, etc…

The new clashes underlined the failure of Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to secure much of the territory, analysts said, after a campaign that has brought massive destruction, the displacement of about 2 million people and the deaths of around 35,000, mostly women and children, etc…

There were also clashes reported in the south of Gaza, where tens of thousands fled the city of Rafah on Sunday, following bombardment and warnings from the IDF to clear central and eastern neighbourhoods before planned offensives, etc…
 

Ron in Regina

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The same Israel that knew the attack was coming, let happen then took 7 hours to respond?
Yep, in the competing narrative against Hamas media wing, about the Hamas military wing, with opposing numbers from the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry wing.

The truth may or may not be somewhere in the middle. So there’s probably somewhere between 5 battalions or 10-11 individuals from Hamas still in Rafah, etc…