Hamas attacks Israel

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716481751227208190

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716481751227208190

Okay, what policy did she fail to follow?

What instructions did she fail to follow?

And according to the leader, what work has she undermind? What trust was broken? How has she made work environments unsafe?

From my understanding, she was initially asked to take down the offending tweet and apologize. She issued a half hearted apology. Then when things were starting to quiet down again, she pinned the offending tweet (which she never took down) on her feed and kind of did an in-your-face to her leader. In all honesty, she could not have kept her in caucus after that and expected to remain a viable leader of the NDP here.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Palestinians lived there.

Ergo, it was Palestinian lands.

Or do we really want to get into that level of semantics?



Sure.



Yes, there was. Just because Colonizing European nations had 'ownership', doesn't mean it still wasn't Palestinian lands.

Again, you want to go down that rabbit hole of semantics?

Jews also lived there as did Christians. It was not a "Palistinian only" land.

How it wound up being a Jewish only land from my reading on the subject is a fascinating story of UN ineptitude and nobody agreeing with anything creating a consensus vacuum that allowed Israel to form and be what it is today.

 

[Serryah]

From my understanding, she was initially asked to take down the offending tweet and apologize.

Which she did.

She issued a half hearted apology.

You don't know it was half-hearted.

From what I read of it, it wasn't.

Then when things were starting to quiet down again, she pinned the offending tweet (which she never took down) on her feed and kind of did an in-your-face to her leader.

Where did she pin it?

In all honesty, she could not have kept her in caucus after that and expected to remain a viable leader of the NDP here.

So far she's not a viable leader at all if she kicks people out for nebulous reasons.

 

[Serryah]

Jews also lived there as did Christians. It was not a "Palistinian only" land.

Yes, they did.

Not in the same number as Palestinians.

It was 'their' land in that they've lived there for generations and were the majority people.

How it wound up being a Jewish only land from my reading on the subject is a fascinating story of UN ineptitude and nobody agreeing with anything creating a consensus vacuum that allowed Israel to form and be what it is today.

I wouldn't call it a fascinating story.

Rather a story of continued Anti-Semitism, colonialism and further disregard of any other people but those deemed 'worthy' somehow.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I think the issue was this, “We must look to the solution to this endless cycle of death and destruction: end all occupation of Palestinian land and end apartheid” the Colonizer/Settler etc…stuff…with the emphasis on an "end to all occupation of Palestinian land."

Her original statement focused largely on the Palestinian territories, saying "violence and retaliation rooted in settler colonialism have taken the lives of far too many innocent people."

She did not directly mention the Hamas attacks that have killed over 1,000 Israeli civilians and seen around 150 people taken hostage.


Touchy times, and after years of being beaten over the head with this Settler Colonizer stuff in Canada, there’s little appetite for it. I’m not justifying it, but just pointing out what I “think” happened.

Do I agree with muzzling this Sarah Jama? Big Nope, as that’s for her constituents to do with their votes or lack their of, and there’s a fine line between free speech and hate speech…& I think this was Free Speech.

What Ron said; sorry I attributed Ron's to you TM.

Yep, that was me, on two or three occasions here (or similar threads, they run together) recently. Sorry for the misdirection fire. I thought the term was apt.

I think we can all agree that the Jewish people have always wanted 'a homeland'. That homeland, as they believe, is Israel, which is where it is current day. However it was NOT their land at this point in time.

Yep, they’d been displaced, without treaties or reservations, just displaced. For a long time too, not just a generation or three. Not like the Natives in North America .

They got the land because the British gave it to them.

Whose land (I know how this will sound too) was this land with the fall of the Ottoman Empire? The Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in WW1 and lost, and was broken apart by the principle victors being Britain, France, & Italy. Look at this in the eyes of a century ago and not filtered by 2023.

WAS there anywhere else in the world that the Jewish people could have been given, and not caused an issue?

Part of Alaska? Madagascar? Idaho? Bavaria? Antarctica? Nova Scotia?

Probably not because, as you said, Anti-Semitism. People the world over were taught/pushed to "hate Jews". Hell, today that's STILL a thing.

But, and this is the crux of it all, even if there was, no one would have been willing to look for one. Because, again, World Guilt.

The world "owed it" to the Jews to "give" them Israel, because of what happened.

The Jews, with the fall of the ottoman empire after World War II with its division, a portion of this was promised to the Jews for their loyalty in World War I BEFORE the holocaust.

But not only was tossing the Jewish people into "Israel" part of World Guilt, it in its own way "killed two birds with one stone".

Bingo!! Not so much the guilt, but the two birds with one stone thing.

It put the Jews into an area of the world no one gave a shit about really, and opened them to conflict that anyone with half a brain knew would happen (since they were warned beforehand), which to me signals that those in charge of things HOPED there would be conflict and then, if the Jews were wiped out fighting for 'their homeland', well that's more legit than what happened in WWII.

Except, the Jews didn’t get wiped out. Every time their neighbours ganged up on them, they HAD to win or “be driven into the sea” over and over. Go figure….and it happened repeatedly, and they’re still here (or there, depending on your perspective).

From my understanding, she was initially asked to take down the offending tweet and apologize. She issued a half hearted apology. Then when things were starting to quiet down again, she pinned the offending tweet (which she never took down) on her feed and kind of did an in-your-face to her leader. In all honesty, she could not have kept her in caucus after that and expected to remain a viable leader of the NDP here.

Yeah, tough one. The NDP is the has-been party that use to represent the downtrodden and the middle class (and eugenics, but that’s a different story), before it swung off into left field and hypocritical irrelevance (Federally anyway).

The irony is, if Sarah Jama was in the Green Party Federally, this could’a propelled her into a three way ménage à trois for the leader ship of the party with Lizzie May & that other dude that nobody’s ever heard of that doesn’t even hold a seat in Parliament.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Which she did.



You don't know it was half-hearted.

From what I read of it, it wasn't.



Where did she pin it?



So far she's not a viable leader at all if she kicks people out for nebulous reasons.

She did not take the tweet down. The apology was a reply to the tweet not really visible except to those really looking. She pinned it on her twitter wall from what I understood. I was not aware you could do it (neither was the NDP leader when questioned) but you can.

I also don't think she is a viable leader either. But her options were resign herself or boot the MPP. She chose the latter.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Yeah, tough one. The NDP is the has-been party that use to represent the downtrodden and the middle class (and eugenics, but that’s a different story), before it swung off into left field and hypocritical irrelevance (Federally anyway).

The irony is, if Sarah Jama was in the Green Party Federally, this could’a propelled her into a three way ménage à trois for the leader ship of the party with Lizzie May & that other dude that nobody’s ever heard of that doesn’t even hold a seat in Parliament.

The NDP has a common platform federally and provincially. I learned this in the last week. They are the only party which does this. I think it is insane. What does an Ontario NDP and a Saskatchewan NDP MPP/MLA have in common? Why should they be governed by one party?

This whole issue has taken the NDP from near even with Ford in the polls to right back down with the Liberals. If an election was held in Ontario now, it would be another Ford majority. Pretty hard to believe given the beating he has taken over the last 4 months over the green belt.

 

[Serryah]

I think the issue was this, “We must look to the solution to this endless cycle of death and destruction: end all occupation of Palestinian land and end apartheid” the Colonizer/Settler etc…stuff…with the emphasis on an "end to all occupation of Palestinian land."

And? Considering that what Israel is doing IS recognized as apartheid, what's she saying that isn't valid?

Her original statement focused largely on the Palestinian territories, saying "violence and retaliation rooted in settler colonialism have taken the lives of far too many innocent people."

Because that's what the issue is over, in reality.

And what she says is right, the violence and retaliation in the colonialism has taken too many lives of innocent people, so what's the issue?

She did not directly mention the Hamas attacks that have killed over 1,000 Israeli civilians and seen around 150 people taken hostage.

Why should she have to?

View attachment 19741
Touchy times, and after years of being beaten over the head with this Settler Colonizer stuff in Canada, there’s little appetite for it. I’m not justifying it, but just pointing out what I “think” happened.

Oh I can get the being tired of settler/colonizer thing, I'm with you on that.

But the difference is while here it's mostly a 'historical' context, this is an active thing going on in Israel, especially the West Bank.

Do I agree with muzzling this Sarah Jama? Big Nope, as that’s for her constituents to do with their votes or lack their of, and there’s a fine line between free speech and hate speech…& I think this was Free Speech.

True nuff.

Yep, that was me, on two or three occasions here (or similar threads, they run together) recently. Sorry for the misdirection fire. I thought the term was apt.

Yep, they’d been displaced, without treaties or reservations, just displaced. For a long time too, not just a generation or three. Not like the Natives in North America .

There are similarities and differences between that region and what happened in North America.

What's still happening, TBH.

Whose land (I know how this will sound too) was this land with the fall of the Ottoman Empire? The Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in WW1 and lost, and was broken apart by the principle victors being Britain, France, & Italy. Look at this in the eyes of a century ago and not filtered by 2023.
View attachment 19742

If you go down that rabbit hole of semantics you won't ever come out.



So with these figures, "whose land is it?" or was it?

Part of Alaska? Madagascar? Idaho? Bavaria? Antarctica? Nova Scotia?

So, no then.

The Jews, with the fall of the ottoman empire after World War II with its division, a portion of this was promised to the Jews for their loyalty in World War I BEFORE the holocaust.

Here's the rub, it wasn't their land to promise.

Bingo!! Not so much the guilt, but the two birds with one stone thing.

Except, the Jews didn’t get wiped out. Every time their neighbours ganged up on them, they HAD to win or “be driven into the sea” over and over. Go figure….and it happened repeatedly, and they’re still here (or there, depending on your perspective).

Exactly. It went against what the hopes were of those "in charge" at the time. That's why they support Israel now, because it's that or not and be seen as "Anti-Semetic" which to a lot of people at the time = Nazi's.

Yeah, tough one. The NDP is the has-been party that use to represent the downtrodden and the middle class (and eugenics, but that’s a different story), before it swung off into left field and hypocritical irrelevance (Federally anyway).

True 'nuff.

The irony is, if Sarah Jama was in the Green Party Federally, this could’a propelled her into a three way ménage à trois for the leader ship of the party with Lizzie May & that other dude that nobody’s ever heard of that doesn’t even hold a seat in Parliament.

Federal Greens have no hope in hell of being relevant.

 

[Serryah]

She did not take the tweet down. The apology was a reply to the tweet not really visible except to those really looking. She pinned it on her twitter wall from what I understood. I was not aware you could do it (neither was the NDP leader when questioned) but you can.

I was under the impression she took it down but...

I wonder now though if she pinned it before or after being kicked out.

But then I personally don't see why she SHOULD remove the post.

I also don't think she is a viable leader either. But her options were resign herself or boot the MPP. She chose the latter.

There's no reason to boot the MPP so...

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

I was under the impression she took it down but...

I wonder now though if she pinned it before or after being kicked out.

But then I personally don't see why she SHOULD remove the post.



There's no reason to boot the MPP so...

It was pinned before she was kicked out because the NDP leader had to answer questions about that where she admitted to not knowing what pinning a tweet was.

She is still an MPP. Just not an NDP one.

 

[Serryah]

It was pinned before she was kicked out because the NDP leader had to answer questions about that where she admitted to not knowing what pinning a tweet was.

Then I'll have to look into that bit; so far I've not seen it mentioned yet.

She is still an MPP. Just not an NDP one.

She should still be an NDP MPP.

But perhaps being Independent is better.

Despite what they did, at least the NDP sided against Ford for his stupid little political stunt of censure.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Then I'll have to look into that bit; so far I've not seen it mentioned yet.



She should still be an NDP MPP.

But perhaps being Independent is better.

Despite what they did, at least the NDP sided against Ford for his stupid little political stunt of censure.

I think it is one of the items Ron has posted in this thread.

If you belong to a party, you tow the party line. If you don't you are gone. Pretty simple.

It's a popular position. Ford is milking it like any politician would. The longer she holds out, the more he can milk it. She is playing into his hands.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

When the Brits divide up their ex-colonies to their satisfaction, you pretty much know there's gonna be a war there.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Oh I can get the being tired of settler/colonizer thing, I'm with you on that.

Yep.

But the difference is while here it's mostly a 'historical' context, this is an active thing going on in Israel, especially the West Bank.

Is it a “historical” context here in Canada?

There are similarities and differences between that region and what happened in North America.

Then about who actually owned that territory before it was spooned out in several different directions…

If you go down that rabbit hole of semantics you won't ever come out.

View attachment 19743

So with these figures, "whose land is it?" or was it?

Apparently the British, maybe the French.

Here's the rub, it wasn't their land to promise.

Except, they did, so… they must’ve had some claim to it in order to do so.

Federal Greens have no hope in hell of being relevant.

They might though. Libs are Tanking, & NDP are the Libs after the last couple of years, the Jagmeet Party probably isn’t going to be rewarded for propping up the Trudeau Libs regardless of what they do.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May says her party is not anti-Semitic, but there are members who are trying to protect vulnerable citizens in the Gaza Strip.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/748523075900

Paul Estrin: Annamie Paul and the anti-Semitic wolves washed in green

The turmoil that results from allowing space within the Green party for outbursts of Jew-hatred is an example of the violent attitudes that pervade the human rights…

nationalpost.com

There’s a segment of the population that will find them appealing I’d assume….

 

[petros]

She's never heard of the Ottoman Empire?

 

[Twin_Moose]

https://x.com/InsightsView/status/1716707777190465883?s=20

When you guys Killed Jews and Christians you all are happy. Israel fight back and you are crying. Did Hamas really think about the risk before attacking Israel. They did not.. Reasons because the Quran told them to kill

 

[Twin_Moose]

Palestinians lived there.

Ergo, it was Palestinian lands.

Or do we really want to get into that level of semantics?



Sure.



Yes, there was. Just because Colonizing European nations had 'ownership', doesn't mean it still wasn't Palestinian lands.

Again, you want to go down that rabbit hole of semantics?

If you want to look at it in this context then this area was a Jewish state for centuries before the first Muslim never mind Palestinian stepped foot on the land. It was even owned by the Catholic church for a millennium or so before the nation of Islam took it back from the crusaders'

 

[Serryah]

Yep.

Is it a “historical” context here in Canada?

Depends who you talk to I suppose.

Natives would think it's a continual thing.

But it's not the same as what goes on in Israel/West Bank/Gaza.

Then about who actually owned that territory before it was spooned out in several different directions…

In the context of differences between NA and that region? Both were lands 'owned' by the people who lived there - in NA it was the Native American, in the region of Israel, historically while the 'overlords' changed hands a lot, the area was still settled by Arabs/Muslims, some Christians and some Jews. Technically THEY owned the land, the overlords just changed.

View attachment 19750

Apparently the British, maybe the French.

And before them the Ottoman Muslims, Romans, etc, etc...

But they were all Overlords. Again, the people who lived there are the ones who truly owned the land.

But I was referring to the figures of the graph, and the graph breaks it down by Jewish, Muslim/Arab and Christian. Look at who the most populace people were.

Except, they did, so… they must’ve had some claim to it in order to do so.

Just like the French, Spanish and Brits had "claims" in NA to divvy up that land?

If you want to look at it in this context then this area was a Jewish state for centuries before the first Muslim never mind Palestinian stepped foot on the land. It was even owned by the Catholic church for a millennium or so before the nation of Islam took it back from the crusaders'

Actually if you want to go further back, well..

The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations - PubMed

The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They're the same fucking people.

So guess Palestinians have a genetic and cultural link to the land JUST as valid as Israeli's.

Religion got the Jews kicked out of the region.

Religion got the Muslim's to stay.

If you want to get REAL technical, the Palestinians have an unbroken tie back to the land more than the Jewish people do, since they, you know, got kicked out.

Point being, the land did belong to Palestinians, and though those of Jewish ancestry have a claim as well, it is not "more" than the Palestinian peoples.

But circling back to World Guilt, and ignorance of the history of the region, people just assume the Jewish belief that they are the ONLY ones that belong there is the only truth.

And it's not.

 

[petros]

What's is Jewish state? Why is Jew the only race someone can convert to? Where does the term Hebrew fit in? Are today's Palestinians possibly yesterday's Gentile Hebrew Israelites? I have some Ashkenazi in my family bloodlines but when I did the DNA test thing ZERO(recent as in 5000 years recent) Arab, Asian Africa or Injun...how come? Was my grandma not a Jew with bloodlines to Ancient Israel or just another Slavic honky convert?

 

[spaminator]

TMU law students put their names to letter endorsing terrorism
Dozens of law school students endorse all forms of "Palestinian resistance" including all forms of violence.


Author of the article:Brian Lilley
Published Oct 23, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 3 minute read

A group of law school students at Toronto Metropolitan University signed and released an open letter over the weekend condoning the Hamas terror attacks. Before it was taken down, 74 students had signed it, many making their names publicly known as endorsers of terrorism.


The letter is shocking in how clearly it endorses violence of all kinds carried out by Hamas, which those signing knew included the slaughter of children, the elderly, the unarmed, young concertgoers their own age. It’s also shocking that these are not uneducated first year university students, these are people with at least one degree, now working on a law degree.


At one point, we might have referred to such people as society’s best and brightest but not while espousing these views.

“We, the undersigned, recognize that the apartheid state referred to as “Israel” is a product of settler colonialism. We stand in solidarity with Palestine and all forms of Palestinian resistance and efforts towards liberation,” the letter read.


And with that, these students, who are studying to become lawyers, officers of the court, endorsed rape, torture, murder and kidnapping as an acceptable form of “Palestinian resistance.”

The letter uses all the latest catchphrases and buzzwords to justify this twisted stance but, in the end, it is driven by a clear hatred towards Israel. The letter blames Israel for all the violence, claims any attempt to lay blame elsewhere is an attempt to shift the narrative away from settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is big in this letter, which denies that Israel even exists.

“Israel is not a country, it is the brand of a settler colony,” the letter states.

With this, the signers of the letter are taking part in one of the many forms of anti-Semitism that is rampant on post-secondary campuses, denying Israel’s right to exist. Israel isn’t the country the Palestinian people need to live next to in peace according to this statement, Israel is a fake country with no right to exist.


This blends well with the favourite chant of the rallies in support of the Palestinian people that has been heard far too often in Toronto recently including this past weekend.

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” the chant goes.

While that may seem benign, it is actually a call to wipe Israel off the map, for the Palestinian people to take all the land from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea. This chant isn’t a call for peace, it’s a call for genocide and it is supported by Marxist theories like settler colonialism which would deny Israel’s right to exist.

The leap from denying Israel’s right to exist to endorsing the horrific Hamas attacks of Oct. 7 was a short one for these students. It’s worth noting that this statement came out two weeks after the terrorist attacks were launched, long after the atrocities were confirmed.


This was not a statement made in the heat of the moment, this was a deliberate declaration on the part of these students on where they stand.

That so many made the leap and made it so boldly, publicly adding their name to a document endorsing barbaric acts, should have us all rethinking how our post-secondary institutions are run. The rot in academia runs deep and has for years but is now made plain to see for everyone.

So far, no comment over the weekend from administration of Toronto Metropolitan University or the Lincoln Alexander School of Law that they are enrolled in but that surely will change.

TMU law letter
A letter signed and released by a group of law school students at Toronto Metropolitan University over the weekend condoning the Hamas terror attacks. PHOTO BY SCREENSHOT

LILLEY: TMU law students put their names to letter endorsing terrorism

Students signed a letter saying they endorse all forms of resistance, dismissing concerns about brutal terror attacks carried out by Hamas.

torontosun.com