Gun ownership up, crime down

[Locutus]

FBI violent-crime rates show safer nation with more gun owners



Gun-control advocates are noticeably silent when crime rates decline. Their multimillion-dollar lobbying efforts are designed to manufacture mass anxiety that every gun owner is a potential killer. The statistics show otherwise.

Last week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced that violent crime decreased 4 percent in 2011. The number of murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults all went down, continuing a pattern.

“This is not a one-year anomaly, but a steady decline in the FBI’s violent-crime rates,” said Andrew Arulanandam, spokesman for the National Rifle Association. “It would be disingenuous for anyone to not credit increased self-defense laws to account for this decline.”
Mr. Arulanandam pointed out that only a handful of states had concealed-carry programs 25 years ago, when the violent-crime rate peaked. Today, 41 states either allow carrying without a permit or have “shall issue” laws that make it easy for just about any noncriminal to get a permit. Illinois and Washington, D.C., are the only places that refuse to recognize the right to bear arms. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence did not respond to requests for comment.

If the gun grabbers were right, we’d be in the middle of a crime wave, considering how many guns are on the streets. “Firearms sales have increased substantially since right after the 2008 election,” said Bill Brassard, spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), which represents the $4 billion firearms and ammunition industry. “There was a leveling off in 2010, but now we’re seeing a surge again.”

The FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) serves as one of the best indicators of gun sales because it counts each time someone buys a gun. Checks hit an all-time high of 16.5 million last year. In the first five months of this year, the numbers have gone up 10 percent over the same period last year as Americans rush to the gun store in case President Obama decides to exercise “more flexibility” in restricting guns in a second term.

Gun manufacturing is the one private-sector industry “doing fine” on Mr. Obama’s watch. Sturm, Ruger & Co. sold 1 million firearms in the first quarter of 2012 - an amazing 50 percent increase from the first quarter of 2011. The jump was so steep that the company stopped accepting orders from March to May to catch up with demand for its products.

Last month, Smith & Wesson announced a firearm-order backlog of approximately $439 million by the end of April, up 135 percent from the same quarter in 2011. Sales in that period were up 28 percent from 2011 and 14 percent over its own predictions to investors. NSSF estimates the industry is responsible for approximately 180,000 jobs and has an annual impact on the U.S. economy of $28 billion.

Mr. Obama could honestly take credit for this jobs program, economic boost and the reduction in violent crime that has followed the spike in gun ownership on his watch. Instead, he’s silent about his greatest positive accomplishment.


MILLER: Gun ownership up, crime down - Washington Times

 

[relic]

It's like when crime goes down,property values go up in neighbourhoods where Angels have a club house.
There was a woman on the Hfx news the other night,answering an opinion question,said they should bring the Angels back to Halifax to fix the crime problem.

 

[Colpy]

BUMP

Just because I LIKE it!!!!

 

[skookumchuck]

BUMP

Just because I LIKE it!!!!

Ditto! :smile:

 

[Bar Sinister]

Yes. Crime is down in Canada as well. And gun ownership here is declining.

 

[Colpy]

Yes. Crime is down in Canada as well. And gun ownership here is declining.

Heh heh...how would you know??? No more long gun registration, and the gun store near me can't keep'em on the shelves....in their "slow" season.

Let me tell you, people are getting firearms licenses at an increasing rate........

I am as surprised as anyone, but the shooting sports are coming back, with a vengence. Young people, brought up on shooting video games, are taking up arms in increasing numbers........

And the loosening of gun laws in Canada sure isn't hurting. Gun stores are opening up again........I LIKE it!

All anecdotal, I admit.

BTW, the crime rate and the murder rate have nothing whatsoever to do with gun control......demographics is what makes the difference.

 

[Praxius]

Maybe the crime rates are going down because all those guys who owned firearms that went on mass shooting sprees were all killed or sent to jail.

Maybe all those people who bought firearms blew all their money on their firearms and simply can't afford the bullets.

“Firearms sales have increased substantially since right after the 2008 election,”

Maybe they're all biding their time for one big "We Hate Obama" revolt.

Maybe the other reason why gun sales are sky rocketing is because many soldiers are back home from Iraq & Afghanistan, whom weren't back in the US previously to purchase firearms.

Keep in mind that it's not that logical to go buy a gun and then go on a crime spree hours later or the next day.

Let's see what the near future holds..... maybe the above claims / connections are true, in that more gun ownership results in less serious crimes, but I don't really see anything substantial to say one way or another at this stage.

And before I get jumped on, I'm all for individual civilians owning firearms, so long as they get background checks and go through proper education & training in the use of firearms before they're given one.

Everybody has the right to defend themselves, to the death if need be.... but nobody has the right to specifically own a firearm to defend themselves.

Everybody has the right to freely move around & travel through their own communities, province/state and country, but nobody has the right to use a car to do so.... you need a license and you need the training. If you screw up and do something wrong, you can lose your license. Same with firearms.... if you screw up, you should lose your license / ability to own a firearm.

I'm for responsibility, not the blind handing out of potentially dangerous things because people demand it.

But that's just me.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Heh heh...how would you know??? No more long gun registration, and the gun store near me can't keep'em on the shelves....in their "slow" season.

Let me tell you, people are getting firearms licenses at an increasing rate........

I am as surprised as anyone, but the shooting sports are coming back, with a vengence. Young people, brought up on shooting video games, are taking up arms in increasing numbers........

And the loosening of gun laws in Canada sure isn't hurting. Gun stores are opening up again........I LIKE it!

All anecdotal, I admit.

BTW, the crime rate and the murder rate have nothing whatsoever to do with gun control......demographics is what makes the difference.

How would I know? It stands to reason that requiring Canadians to acquire an FAC before being able to buy firearms or ammunition makes it more difficult to own firearms. Once, any Canadian could walk into a hardware store and buy all the guns he wanted. That, of course, is no longer the case. As a result many Canadians who have inherited firearms are simply letting them go rather than keeping them, while still others are not bothering to get guns at all. But just in case you doubt my logic here are some references on gun ownership before the long gun registry was cancelled.

RCMP

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I quote from the Wikipedia article:

Controls on civilian use of firearms date from the early days of Confederation, when justices of the peace could impose penalties for carrying a handgun without reasonable cause. Criminal Code of Canada amendments between the 1890s and the 1970s introduced a series of minor controls on firearms. In the late 1970s, controls of intermediate strength were introduced. In the mid 1990s, significant increases in controls occurred. A 1996 study showed that Canada was in the mid-range of firearm ownership when compared with eight other western nations. Nearly 22% of Canadian households had at least one firearm, including 2.3% of households possessing a handgun. As of September 2010, the Canadian Firearms Program recorded a total of 1,831,327 valid firearm licences, which is roughly 5.4% of the Canadian population. The four most licensed provinces are Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and British Columbia.

I think that a change from 22% gun ownership in 1996 to only 5.4% in 2010 is a significant decline. However, if yiou don't like my numbers or sources, how about you prove that gun ownership is not declining?

I do agree with your last point about demographics, especially as it confirms what I have said regarding gun ownership in a number of posts, and that is that firearms ownership has little or no deterrent affect regarding crime.

 

[The Old Medic]

I personally own five rifles, one shotgun, and eleven handguns (down from well over 100 years ago). I collected handguns at one time, and I was also on a U.S. Army Pistol Team for several years.

For personal home defense, I keep a 12 gauge unchoked shotgun in my bedroom. I have buckshot shells in it at all times. At 10 feet, it has a spread of over 36 inches, and if that won't bring someone down, I don't know what will.

I shoot an average of 500 rounds per month with my various pistols. I can still score about 800 out of a possible 1,000 with a small bore pistol (.22 caliber). That is shooting 100 rounds at a target at 50 feet, with the 10 ring exactly 22/100's of an inch in diameter. In order to see the bulls eye, the 8, 9 and 10 rings are all solid black, with white lines around each. If you cut the line, you get the lower score!

Shooting is a LOT of fun. One of my handguns is a .44 caliber Walker Colt, a black powder percussion handgun, that takes the same powder load as my .45 caliber black powder rifle. The weapon weighs 6.1 pounds, and when fired it has a pretty good kick.

I decided to show my wife just how much power this thing has. I filled a 5 gallon metal can to the brim with water, screwed on the cap, backed of 25 feet and shot it with one round. It literally exploded, with the largest piece (from the top) being about 8 inches in diameter.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never shot anyone (I shot AT some people in Vietnam, but don't know if I hit them or not). But, I would not hesitate, if someone broke into my home. I live out in the country, it takes some time for any form of police to get here, and I am NOT going to wait for them.

 

[lone wolf]

Be patient sir.... We'll have someone here for you in a jiffy....

 

[CDNBear]

Heh heh...how would you know??? No more long gun registration, and the gun store near me can't keep'em on the shelves....in their "slow" season.

Let me tell you, people are getting firearms licenses at an increasing rate........

I am as surprised as anyone, but the shooting sports are coming back, with a vengence. Young people, brought up on shooting video games, are taking up arms in increasing numbers........

And the loosening of gun laws in Canada sure isn't hurting. Gun stores are opening up again........I LIKE it!

All anecdotal, I admit.

BTW, the crime rate and the murder rate have nothing whatsoever to do with gun control......demographics is what makes the difference.

Not really all that anecdotal my friend...

End of long-gun registry bumps up sales - Politics - The Prince Albert Daily Herald

The H1/PAL course at the York Region Firearms Academy, is booked solid until after November. First time ever.

 

[skookumchuck]

How would I know? It stands to reason that requiring Canadians to acquire an FAC before being able to buy firearms or ammunition makes it more difficult to own firearms. Once, any Canadian could walk into a hardware store and buy all the guns he wanted. That, of course, is no longer the case. As a result many Canadians who have inherited firearms are simply letting them go rather than keeping them, while still others are not bothering to get guns at all. But just in case you doubt my logic here are some references on gun ownership before the long gun registry was cancelled.

RCMP

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I quote from the Wikipedia article:

Controls on civilian use of firearms date from the early days of Confederation, when justices of the peace could impose penalties for carrying a handgun without reasonable cause. Criminal Code of Canada amendments between the 1890s and the 1970s introduced a series of minor controls on firearms. In the late 1970s, controls of intermediate strength were introduced. In the mid 1990s, significant increases in controls occurred. A 1996 study showed that Canada was in the mid-range of firearm ownership when compared with eight other western nations. Nearly 22% of Canadian households had at least one firearm, including 2.3% of households possessing a handgun. As of September 2010, the Canadian Firearms Program recorded a total of 1,831,327 valid firearm licences, which is roughly 5.4% of the Canadian population. The four most licensed provinces are Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and British Columbia.

I think that a change from 22% gun ownership in 1996 to only 5.4% in 2010 is a significant decline. However, if yiou don't like my numbers or sources, how about you prove that gun ownership is not declining?

I do agree with your last point about demographics, especially as it confirms what I have said regarding gun ownership in a number of posts, and that is that firearms ownership has little or no deterrent affect regarding crime.

They do not factor in the numbers of firearms that never got registered plus the growth in cities of women and manly types that hike up their skirts and squeal shrilly when "gun" is mentioned.

 

[Colpy]

Not really all that anecdotal my friend...

End of long-gun registry bumps up sales - Politics - The Prince Albert Daily Herald

The H1/PAL course at the York Region Firearms Academy, is booked solid until after November. First time ever.

Thanks Bear!!!

It is good to see.......

 

[Kreskin]

Yes. Crime is down in Canada as well. And gun ownership here is declining.

Exactly, the claim that gun ownership is responsible for declining crime is nonsense. Wishful thinking.

 

[Bar Sinister]

They do not factor in the numbers of firearms that never got registered plus the growth in cities of women and manly types that hike up their skirts and squeal shrilly when "gun" is mentioned.

Unregistered firearms are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion. My point was that firearm ownership is declining and the stats prove that. Eventually the owners of unregistered firearms will die and their survivors will have to decide whether or not they wish to continue breaking the law. At such time I expect most of these firearms will be turned over to the police. The decline will continue, taking Canada in the opposite direction of the USA.

 

[Colpy]

Exactly, the claim that gun ownership is responsible for declining crime is nonsense. Wishful thinking.

Here is the point you are missing:

If guns have NO effect on crime rate and murder, why are they controlled???

In a free society, we err on the side of liberty, or we are soon NOT a free society.

Since 1991 in the USA, 41 states have liberalized their gun laws, allowing civilians to carry handguns concealed for self-defense, most with laws that require officials to issue licenses when requested (after background check and minimal training), some requiring no license at all..

Between 1991 and 2010, the US murder rate fell 53%.

It fell again in 2011.

Now, it would be difficult to credit liberalised gun laws for the drop in murder........although it sure doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.......

What IS obvious is that radically eased access to weapons certainly has NOT increased the murder rate.....

So, in a free society.....well, you figure it out...............

Unregistered firearms are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion. My point was that firearm ownership is declining and the stats prove that. Eventually the owners of unregistered firearms will die and their survivors will have to decide whether or not they wish to continue breaking the law. At such time I expect most of these firearms will be turned over to the police. The decline will continue, taking Canada in the opposite direction of the USA.

The stats prove absolutely nothing, as they are from the RCMP, which can only tell you about licensed owners and registered guns.

And now they can't even tell you that.

 

[CDNBear]

My point was that firearm ownership is declining and the stats prove that.

It was, as the news has shown, it's now going to rise. Instead of resorting to the use of outdated states, why not wait for this years stats to come out.

 

[Bar Sinister]

In a free society, we err on the side of liberty, or we are soon NOT a free society.

No, in a free society we err on the side of common sense; a point gun advocates have continually overlooked.

What IS obvious is that radically eased access to weapons certainly has NOT increased the murder rate.....

So, in a free society.....well, you figure it out...............

Figure it out? How about already having enough guns to arm almost every US citizen is more than enough to maintain the US as the world leader in gun crime among modern Western nations?

The stats prove absolutely nothing, as they are from the RCMP, which can only tell you about licensed owners and registered guns. And now they can't even tell you that.

Since this little discussion began I have asked twice for you to provide alternative statistics. And you have failed to do that. Feel free do do so if you can find any. Somehow though, I suspect if such proof existed gun advocates would be quick to trot it out. The fact that you can't probably means all of the evidence is in the other direction.

It was, as the news has shown, it's now going to rise. Instead of resorting to the use of outdated states, why not wait for this years stats to come out.

I am looking forward to you providing them. But I am guessing that this is the last I will hear of the issue.

 

[Kreskin]

Technology likely has more impact on crime trends. Cellphones are the best defense against violent crime and nearly everyone has one to their ear. Violent bank robberies are few and far between now because electronic theft is more effective.

 

[skookumchuck]

Unregistered firearms are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion. My point was that firearm ownership is declining and the stats prove that. Eventually the owners of unregistered firearms will die and their survivors will have to decide whether or not they wish to continue breaking the law. At such time I expect most of these firearms will be turned over to the police. The decline will continue, taking Canada in the opposite direction of the USA.

What part of peeps lining up to buy firearms since the demise of the registry don't you get? The idea that only old people soon to die own unregistered firearms is also ridiculous and those few that do pass them to family. The cops know that there are at LEAST two rifles/shotguns hidden and never registered for every registered one, they ain't gonna discuss that. Not to mention that neither the registry nor the P.A.L have rarely ever been enforced on the majority of native reserves across the country and certainly not in the remote areas.
btw, how has gun control worked in the Jane and Finch area of TO? Montreal, Vancouver, etc, a tiny percentage of the total Canadian population, shootings literally every day and peeps like you go after folks who have never and never will abuse their use of firearms.
You are obviously not part of the hunting/shooting fraternity and make assumptions according to what the lame stream media and government tell you. Good luck with that but don't try to bullchitt the people who know.

Oops me bad, you are correct and everything will be alright, don't worry, ignore everything i said.