I have no idea whether the easing of gun control and common carry of concealed weapons lessened violence in the USA, but I do know that it did not increase it.............and in a free society........
Gun Control is Completely Useless.
- Thread starter Colpy
- Start date
I have no idea whether the easing of gun control and common carry of concealed weapons lessened violence in the USA, but I do know that it did not increase it.............and in a free society........
Happy New Year, man. We get the never-ending fight of teaching truly decent, well-meaning people that their decent, well-meaning ideas just won't work.Hey! Nice to see you back in the asylum with all the other nut jobs.
Hey! Nice to see you back in the asylum with all the other nut jobs.
He's the ultimate nut job!
If the government gave every one a million dollars you could still find moaners and complainers, which is NZs national sport.Talking Point: Was the gun buyback a success?
31 Dec, 2019 8:23am 4 minutes to read
Hawkes Bay Today
By: Chris Geddis
Was the Gun Buyback really a success?
On December 20, 2019, the much-heralded amnesty and gun buyback scheme came to an end.
The scheme was launched when authorities banned semi-automatic weapons in response to the killing of 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch on March 15, 2019.
The scheme and six-month amnesty was put in place after gun law reforms (supported by all parties except ACT) banned most military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms, weeks after the shootings.
In one report, NZ Police say that more than 56,000 weapons and another 190,000 parts were surrendered and handed in to authorities in New Zealand during the six-month amnesty.
The scheme, launched in April 2019 was that, in return for handing in of firearms, owners were compensated up to 95 per cent of the weapon's original price.
Police hail it as a success. Now the amnesty is over, Police Minister Stuart Nash said:
"There had been a last-minute surge in the past fortnight as people had come forward to do the right thing and more than 56,346 prohibited and unlawful firearms have so far been removed from circulation, through the buyback and amnesty, as well as through modifications by approved gunsmiths at Government expense. 31,650 people participated in the buyback and deserve credit and acknowledgement. They have been paid almost $100 million in compensation. Almost 188,000 prohibited parts are no longer in the community."
But of those "56,346 guns" we now find only 9532 handed in were actually MSSAs?
At the halfway stage of the amnesty collection, in September, Police Deputy Commissioner Mike Clement updated progress to a parliamentary select committee, by saying "12,621 people have handed in 19,837 firearms and 73,949 parts and $36.7 million has been paid out." "But of the 14,000 or so MSSAs that are registered with police, 2500 have been handed in."
From the figures, I do believe that of the 56,346 that were handed in, 46,814 firearms were not MSSAs, the majority were guns of the type more likely to be the regular .303 rifles, .22 rifles, various gauge shot guns and collection guns - hardly prohibited or unlawful.
The amnesty and payout being taken advantage of by law abiding citizens, retired farmers, ex-hunters, ex duck-shooters and collectors who realised that the one-off price offered, would never be achieved, nor repeated again.
We now know that police can confirm they can account for 15,037 E-category or MSSAs as; 9532 have been handed in, 4277 firearms have been retained and have exemptions for various reasons and 1228 firearms are held by 851 people that police have contacted to follow up.
I think Nash should have been talking about the total 56,346 guns handed in and received rather than stating them all to be "Prohibited and illegal".
I know the government had to start somewhere to bring guns under more control after March 15, but has this amnesty and buyback really been a success?
The fact is that Mike Clement cited estimates at the start that put the number of now-banned firearms between 56,000 and 173,000, while other police estimates were of 240,000, a figure not disputed by Clement, though he added that the true number was simply unknown.
I think we are still a very, very, long way from New Zealand being made a safer place.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-b...M6f2fX1yTQfEsIHbCt70JdOBqPDo4brGFMQ9JkekSd0kQ
NZ is composed of 2 North and South islands.
The closest neigbours are Au. 1800kms away.
NZs total pop is about the same as greater Toronto.
I feel safer with the new gun laws.
An ounce of tobacco is U.S. $50.00.
Better smuggle tobacco than guns, as there is more money in it.
Semi autos were legal and now are not.
So new doesn’t enter, unless smuggled.
Simple.
Most crims get weapons through theft, unless organised, -bike gangs with international connections types.
So now the cops have a reason to bust them and throw them in the clink.
Easy.
Our police are un armed so if guns come to town, the “Armed Offenders Squad” shows up, and often solve the problem without harm.
Cool.
I know there are legit uses.
Airport Authority had to cull 6000 black swans who were invading Auckland Airport landing approaches, so bang bang time.
They tried to kill then gaff the swan bodies into their boats, but heaps washed up on the inner harbour beaches.
Shot guns next time?
Some air rifles are getting pretty fancy, just what the local morons need.
When I entered NZ to work 34 years ago, I had an Armalite AR-7.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-7.
Its a military pilot survival rifle.
The Police had me ship it back to a pal in Toronto, as a machine shop could easily shorten the barrel and it makes it easy to conceal.
Also, the trigger mechanism could easily be converted to full auto.
So bye bye to the gun.
I survived.
My 2 cents.
Gun crime
There were 83 shootings in Calgary by the end of November this year, according to statistics provided by Calgary police.
While that’s a nearly 77 per cent increase over 2018 — there were just 47 shootings in Calgary last year — Neufeld notes the jump doesn’t appear as striking when compared with longer-term trends. Calgary averaged 71 shootings per year from 2014 to 2018.
Still, he said curbing gun crime remains a priority.
“There’s way too much, as far as I’m concerned,” he said, pointing to parallels between his city and others across Canada — “it isn’t just a Calgary thing,” Neufeld said. He said the CPS is looking to other police services to find out what strategies have proven effective elsewhere.
“It’s completely unacceptable, the amount that we’ve seen, and the number of guns that our officers are taking off the streets every night,” Neufeld said. “I’m really quite concerned about it. I’m concerned for public safety. I’m concerned for officer safety. I’m concerned for all of it.”
Neufeld said Calgary police are in the process of re-evaluating their approach to gun crime to figure out what has and hasn’t worked this past year.
“We will have a new strategy . . . in 2020 that will see us put a strong focus on this issue,” he said.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has signalled his government’s intention to allow municipalities to ban handguns.
But Neufeld questioned how effective that type of legislation would be in Calgary. He said laws are already in place to deal with those behind most, if not all, of the shootings in the city.
“The idea now to delegate that authority down to the municipal councils could potentially result in a patchwork of bylaws across the province. So, for instance, maybe handguns wouldn’t be lawful in Calgary, but they would be in Airdrie and Cochrane, and so at some point, it just gets confusing for the citizens,” the police chief said.
“I guess the issue that will have to be reconciled is that with the shootings we’re having in Calgary, they’re not being perpetrated by lawful, law-abiding handgun owners . . . They’re saying, ‘why should we be punished when it isn’t us that’s out there creating the problem?’ And they’re right about that.”
https://calgaryherald.com/news/loca...W_ZhVMTX57WKzbaOrp7N-9zpSPx8EkcQfgeF8RHIwP-NY
There were 83 shootings in Calgary by the end of November this year, according to statistics provided by Calgary police.
While that’s a nearly 77 per cent increase over 2018 — there were just 47 shootings in Calgary last year — Neufeld notes the jump doesn’t appear as striking when compared with longer-term trends. Calgary averaged 71 shootings per year from 2014 to 2018.
Still, he said curbing gun crime remains a priority.
“There’s way too much, as far as I’m concerned,” he said, pointing to parallels between his city and others across Canada — “it isn’t just a Calgary thing,” Neufeld said. He said the CPS is looking to other police services to find out what strategies have proven effective elsewhere.
“It’s completely unacceptable, the amount that we’ve seen, and the number of guns that our officers are taking off the streets every night,” Neufeld said. “I’m really quite concerned about it. I’m concerned for public safety. I’m concerned for officer safety. I’m concerned for all of it.”
Neufeld said Calgary police are in the process of re-evaluating their approach to gun crime to figure out what has and hasn’t worked this past year.
“We will have a new strategy . . . in 2020 that will see us put a strong focus on this issue,” he said.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has signalled his government’s intention to allow municipalities to ban handguns.
But Neufeld questioned how effective that type of legislation would be in Calgary. He said laws are already in place to deal with those behind most, if not all, of the shootings in the city.
“The idea now to delegate that authority down to the municipal councils could potentially result in a patchwork of bylaws across the province. So, for instance, maybe handguns wouldn’t be lawful in Calgary, but they would be in Airdrie and Cochrane, and so at some point, it just gets confusing for the citizens,” the police chief said.
“I guess the issue that will have to be reconciled is that with the shootings we’re having in Calgary, they’re not being perpetrated by lawful, law-abiding handgun owners . . . They’re saying, ‘why should we be punished when it isn’t us that’s out there creating the problem?’ And they’re right about that.”
https://calgaryherald.com/news/loca...W_ZhVMTX57WKzbaOrp7N-9zpSPx8EkcQfgeF8RHIwP-NY
I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The logistics of letting every FOOL in town wander about with pistol in pocket ARE INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially if you add in the CONSEQUENCES of LEGAL WEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One has only to read of the shooting death of Philando Castile by police officer Yanez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Castile HAD A PISTOL IN HIS POCKET................................
Castile HAD COMPLETED the govt mandated training program that WAS REQUIRED to obtain his license to carry the pistol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cop Yanez pulled Castile over because he matched the description of a wanted FELON................................
as Yanez approached the vehicle - the STONED CASTILE FORGOT EVERY BIT OF HIS TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Castile behaved so foolishly that he SCARED THE CRAP out of cop Yanez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOBODY KNOWS if Castile - the suspected felon was reaching for his gun..............................
or reaching for his wallet when he got shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Philando Castile WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY.....................................
IF HE HAD NOT BEEN LEGALLY PERMITTED TO CARRY A GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And here is a FUN question:::: "WHY IN HELL does a guy employed as a school lunch room supervisor..............
who is out doing some grocery shopping with his girl friend and her young daughter.................................
NEED TO CARRY A PISTOL ANYWAY??????????????????????????
WHAT IS WRONG with that picture????????????????????????
I guess that 2 cents is in New Zealand cash and worth less than Cdn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And what your two cents BUYS IS PROOF...........................
that criminal control is the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And LIE-berals are IGNORING the KEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not know who said this, it is not original, but it is appropriate;
The most dismaying thing is to watch free men begging for their chains.
I accepted that. Then concealed carry might not be a cause of a reduction in gun violence.
Anyway, when it comes to it, I would rather find cover than stay and shoot it out with some wacko criminal (or a twitchy cop or some dogoody cowboy with a hero complex).
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It WOULD BE NICE to find some happy medium in all this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While I agree with you it IS NOT A GOOD IDEA to let every
nut in town wander around with a pistol in pocket................
at the same time - I WOULD PREFER TO SHOOT IT OUT
with the wacko criminal.....................
RATHER THAN HIDE under a table - PRAYING that the executioner WILL NOT notice me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I and others have said - govt buying back rifles FROM LEGAL OWNERS ....................................
WILL DO NOTHING TO PROTECT US from criminals with ILLEGAL PISTOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our idiot Boy and his loser LIE-berals demonstrate their bigotry and illogical thought.........................
by spending another $300 million dollars on arresting criminals and feeding them through our disgraceful.......................
"CATCH AND RELEASE" Legal system.....................................
while at the same time SPENDING $600 million dollars buying back LEGAL RIFLES from honest owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/01/ir...rmed-defenders-in-church-video/#ixzz6A4XbNSda
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
Irrational Responses to Armed Defenders in Church ~ VIDEO
Ammoland Inc. Posted on January 3, 2020 by Dean Weingarten
Opinion
In spite of rapid attempts to suppress the video, it has been made available to the world, via social media and the quick actions of freedom-loving activists.
The actions in the video are crystal clear. An armed, skilled, volunteer congregant stops an active murderer with one shot after two of his friends are shot and killed. The entire action happens in six seconds.
The defender acted with skill and grace under fire. Within a few seconds, several other armed congregant volunteers converge on the downed murderer.
None of the chaos and multiple deaths, predicted by those who wish a disarmed population, happened, in spite of several armed, volunteer, congregants.
The actions and video are one of the clearest refutations of the arguments of those who want a disarmed population, that has happened in recent years.
How have those who want us disarmed, responded?
Their first, and most common response, is to retreat to their fantasy of a world without guns. From flobalob, comment at dailymail.co.uk:
Three people died because of those guns. If there were no guns nobody would have died.
There are many variations. From a comment by RedRobinHood in the dailymail.co.uk:
Wait a minute , the NRA made sure a madman had a gun in the first place.
This is a fantasy position. Guns are a 600-year-old technology. Even with draconian controls on guns, it makes little difference in the number of illegal guns or homicides. Gun restrictions may reduce the number of legal guns; the number of legal guns has no relationship to the number of illegal guns or the rate of homicide.
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Gun bans have not reduced homicide anywhere in the world. They may have reduced murders with guns, but even that is doubtful. It did not happen in England and Wales, where it has been extensively studied. The academic works of Joyce Lee Malcolm and Constable Greenwood in Cambridge, show that clearly.
The number of guns in a country and the gun homicide rate do not show a meaningful correlation. That argument begs the question: what is the point of reducing legal gun ownership if it does not reduce the homicide rate?
The fantasy, held by most supporters of a disarmed population, is there is some magical policy that will make guns disappear. They say, no guns, no killing with guns. It is magical thinking, especially in the United States, with a population of 330 million, 430 million guns, billions of rounds of ammunition, and the skills and tools to produce guns and ammunition in millions of garages, hobby centers, small shops, and homes.
Essentially they are putting their fingers in their collective ears, yelling la,la,la,la… They don't like guns and they demand they go away. They expect to be able to change the reality by wishing for a different reality, where guns do not exist, cannot be made, smuggled, or sold on the black market.
The fallback position is to claim more infringements on the Second Amendment will somehow reduce the overall number of violent deaths in society. Because homicide deaths, including homicide deaths with guns, have dropped with increasing numbers of guns, this argument depends on the number of deaths by suicide. Here is the response put forward by Moms Demand Action, the Bloomberg funded group pushing population disarmament. From momsdemandaction.org:
Once again, the gun violence crisis in Texas is in the spotlight after two people were shot and killed at a church in White Settlement on Sunday. Gun violence kills more than 3,000 Texans each year, and the rate of gun deaths in Texas increased 14 percent from 2008 to 2017.
- The Texas Homicide rate in 2008 was 5.6 per 100,000, according to dps.texas.gov.
- The Texas Homicide rate in 2017, was 5.0 per 100,000, according todps.texas.gov.
- The Texas homicide rate dropped 12% from 2008 to 2017.
The Texas Homicide rate 1991, was 15.3 per 100,000, according to dps.texas.gov.
Using the Orwellian term “gun violence” which lumps together justified homicide, murder, suicide, and accidents, the Moms' figure for “gun violence” is 11.5 per 100K, including all causes, with 62% of that figure being suicides.
The rate of suicides with guns dropped by 23.6% from 1991 to 2015, according to The Trace, hardly a pro-Second Amendment publication. The rate of homicides with guns dropped 61.3% during the same period, using the same source. The rate of overall homicide in Texas in 2015 was 4.8, 96% of what it was in 2017, so the firearms homicide rate in Texas is unlikely to have changed much, from 2015 to 2017.
The suicide with firearms rate in 2017 was 62% of 11.5, or 7.13 per 100,000 population, a decrease in the rate. In 2015, it was 7.3 per 100,000. In 2016, it was 7.28 per 100,000. These numbers show the relationship shown in the Trace article, has not changed.
The suicide rate with guns, in Texas, is about 24% lower in 2017, than it was in 1991. The homicide rate (all methods) in 2017, is 67% lower than it was in 1991. The homicide rate with guns is about 60% lower than it was in 1991.
In the period from 1991 to 2017, per capita guns in the United States increased from .857 in 1991 to 1.27 in 2017(calculated). A 47% increase in the number of guns per capita in the United States, (The numbers are not available for Texas, separately) resulted in a decrease of suicides by guns of 24% in Texas, and a decrease of homicides (all methods) of 67% in Texas.
The Moms' reach their figure of increasing “gun violence” by cherry-picking the start date of their data, in 2008. 1991 was shown above because 1991 was the peak rate shown for homicides in Texas.
Statistics can easily be manipulated to present the conclusion the author wants.
There is no correlation with gun ownership and homicides, or with gun ownership and suicides. Many countries with extremely low gun ownership have very high suicide rates. Virtually none of the policies being pushed by the people who wish the population disarmed would reduce suicides by guns or suicides overall.
- Bans of semi-automatic rifles? 1 shot needed for suicide.
- Bans of magazines of more than 10 shots. The same.
- Bans on private sales of guns? The vast majority of suicides have owned their guns for a long time.
Those who want disarmed populations argue from fantasy and emotion because the facts do not support their arguments.
Many want to disarm everyone else because they do not wish to bother with learning to effectively defend themselves or others. They cry out: I don't like guns! They scare me! Make them go away! Cynical politicians hear their cries, amplify them, and use the emotion to gain power.
The emotional haters of guns need to understand: armed defenders protect them. Private concealed carry permit holders are more law abiding than police.
Guns cannot be removed from society. To think they can is magical thinking.
Reality has a way of intruding on fantasy and magical thinking.
The defensive use of a gun to stop the killing in the West Freeway Church of Christ, is a powerful reminder of reality.
Just gonna throw this in as one of them "annual notifications," Colpy.
As you "debate" this issue, remember that your interlocutors are generally ignorant of the subtleties of gun violence, and violent crimes generally, that there are ethnic, socioeconomic, and cultural factors they refuse to address, and the politicians don't give two shits about effective gun control, nor for reducing violence in society. They are looking to how they can use gun violence in society to advance their political careers.
Keep up the good fight. Bring principles and sense and reason to the discussion.
Honor you, bro. Be happy to have you at my back in a fight.
As you "debate" this issue, remember that your interlocutors are generally ignorant of the subtleties of gun violence, and violent crimes generally, that there are ethnic, socioeconomic, and cultural factors they refuse to address, and the politicians don't give two shits about effective gun control, nor for reducing violence in society. They are looking to how they can use gun violence in society to advance their political careers.
Keep up the good fight. Bring principles and sense and reason to the discussion.
Honor you, bro. Be happy to have you at my back in a fight.
To me, it's simple: keep the nutjob criminals, the wacko cops, and the do-gooders with the hero complexes from having guns and things should be ok. Also, the more guns out and about, the more shootings there are bound to be because humans can't control themselves all the time. Acquire the attitude that guns are for hunting, protecting one's investments in stock and other property, target shooting, and collecting, not for getting revenge, getting other people's stuff, etc.
Again, I would rather scoot from a scene and not present myself as a target than stay and shoot it out.
Again, I would rather scoot from a scene and not present myself as a target than stay and shoot it out.
And LIE-beral minded white hating, cop scorning FRAUD ARTISTS LIKE YOU.........................
want to be considered as a BETTER SOURCE of wisdom?????????????????????
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEST LAUGH I HAVE HAD IN A LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh look the gun ban is working already
Multiple suspects sought by Toronto police after stabbing at subway station
Calgary police search for suspects after stabbing outside Sheldon Chumir Centre
Multiple suspects sought by Toronto police after stabbing at subway station
Calgary police search for suspects after stabbing outside Sheldon Chumir Centre
Drooling imbeciles sitting in the corner laughing at nothing is a feature of our culture.
I can't even recall a firearms death in Britain in 2019. There may have been at least one, but I can't recall any and I can find none in the news.
There was a terror attack at Fishmongers Hall and on London Bridge, but it was a series of stabbings and there would likely have been more deaths had he had easier access to guns.
So, on the firearms score, all continues to be well here.
There was a terror attack at Fishmongers Hall and on London Bridge, but it was a series of stabbings and there would likely have been more deaths had he had easier access to guns.
So, on the firearms score, all continues to be well here.
