Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Cobalt_Kid]

We've got the registry in place, throwing it out now will waste the vast sums of money already spent... which if you understand regional politics had as much to with jobs in the Maritimes as it did with gun control.

And whether or not they're used more or less than other weapons, nothing has the potential to do the damage that firearms do. I can break a bottle in half and attack someone with it but the chances are I'm not going to be able to take out a whole room of people, or an office or school.

And as Colpys last post shows even a small handgun in the right hands is a fearsome weapon. I've shot and cleaned enough animals to understand what a relatively tiny bullet can do to spines(I was a bit high) hearts, lungs. Maybe in the old days when many of us lived on the frontiers we could get by with no control over firearms, those days are past.

 

[ironsides]

We've got the registry in place, throwing it out now will waste the vast sums of money already spent... which if you understand regional politics had as much to with jobs in the Maritimes as it did with gun control.

And whether or not they're used more or less than other weapons, nothing has the potential to do the damage that firearms do. I can break a bottle in half and attack someone with it but the chances are I'm not going to be able to take out a whole room of people, or an office or school.

And as Colpys last post shows even a small handgun in the right hands is a fearsome weapon. I've shot and cleaned enough animals to understand what a relatively tiny bullet can do to spines(I was a bit high) hearts, lungs. Maybe in the old days when many of us lived on the frontiers we could get by with no control over firearms, those days are past.

What control over firearms do you want. Nothing any check does will insure that guns are safe. In all states except Vermont a person must take a safety course in the use of firearms as well as criminal records check thru the FBI (all states must abide by the "Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, established a national five-day waiting period for retail handgun purchases".). A few states like New York go even farther by adding a psychological background check as well as detailed check (asking neighbors about the individual. The U.S. does not freely hand out guns to individuals as some seem to think. By ther awy, the first time I fired a .45 it flew out of my hands. I was 16 and knew everything. :smile:

 

[Cliffy]

I always wanted to fire a handgun. Watched too much TV and movies, I guess. One day a guy shows up on our farm with a snub nodes 44 Mag. Everybody was taking pot shots at a can on a fence post. He offered the gun to me, I took aim and was the first one to hit the can - one shot. I handed back the gun and have never had an inclination to do it again. Oh, I did fire a 50 caliber black powder hand gun once, a few years later. Now those babies kick like an elephant.

 

[ironsides]

HAMILTON HEIGHTS, N.Y. (WPIX) —
A citywide campaign aimed at helping bodega owners defend themselves by giving them a firearm is set to launch Thursday.

Lead by Fernando Mateo, president of Hispanics Across America and representative of the Bodegueros Association, is leading the move and calls it "Operation: 'Guns for All' Bodega Owners."

Advocacy Group Wants 'Guns For All' Bodega Owners - WPIX

 

[wulfie68]

And whether or not they're used more or less than other weapons, nothing has the potential to do the damage that firearms do. I can break a bottle in half and attack someone with it but the chances are I'm not going to be able to take out a whole room of people, or an office or school.

So you're concerned with potential violence that might occur rather than actual violence that is occurring. As long as we're clear on that. Personally, I disagree because I see your view as flawed: other factors are coming into play that your fears are not accounting for, hence the increase in % of violent crimes committed with other weapons.

 

[Colpy]

We've got the registry in place, throwing it out now will waste the vast sums of money already spent... which if you understand regional politics had as much to with jobs in the Maritimes as it did with gun control.

And whether or not they're used more or less than other weapons, nothing has the potential to do the damage that firearms do. I can break a bottle in half and attack someone with it but the chances are I'm not going to be able to take out a whole room of people, or an office or school.

And as Colpys last post shows even a small handgun in the right hands is a fearsome weapon. I've shot and cleaned enough animals to understand what a relatively tiny bullet can do to spines(I was a bit high) hearts, lungs. Maybe in the old days when many of us lived on the frontiers we could get by with no control over firearms, those days are past.

The money is already wasted......the registry is completely, entirely, unendingly useless........unless you want to use it to seize weapons from those individuals honest and law-abiding enough to actually register them.

Let me say that again....and again and again and again....

The ONLY use of the firearms registry is to aid in the confiscation of weapons.

That's why we hate it.

Licensing is fine, cheap, effective (if done properly) a compromise the vast, vast majority of decent gun owners would co-operatively approve.

Registration is not. At least one quarter, and as many as one half of the long guns in Canada remain unregistered, outside of government control completely. That's millions of firearms. To effectively control a large segment of the population (such as gun owners) you need their consent and their co-operation. The gov't has failed to gain either.

Want to pull us back into the fold?

Start rolling back the Firearms Act.....not to nothing, just to something effective and reasonable.

 

[DaSleeper]

Common sense does not work with liberal ideologues.......

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

What control over firearms do you want. Nothing any check does will insure that guns are safe. In all states except Vermont a person must take a safety course in the use of firearms as well as criminal records check thru the FBI (all states must abide by the "Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, established a national five-day waiting period for retail handgun purchases".). A few states like New York go even farther by adding a psychological background check as well as detailed check (asking neighbors about the individual. The U.S. does not freely hand out guns to individuals as some seem to think. By ther awy, the first time I fired a .45 it flew out of my hands. I was 16 and knew everything. :smile:

Part of the problem is the gun industry itself. The last figures I heard was about 5% of the dealers were resposible for 80% of the guns that end up on the street. These are the guns that get by the checks. The so called straw purchases where buyers travel from New York or some other center and buy multiple guns from a dealer say in Virginia and then resell them back in New York on the street for a big profit. The manufacturers know about it according to whistle-blowers but doing anything to stop it would cut into profits. Most people are responsible about firearms, so it's more an industry issue.

Just look at the Chicago situation, there's been a ban on guns there for years, but there are gun dealers in the counties all around the city so all you have to do is drive 15 minutes to purchase a weapon. The 4th of July sounds like a war zone in the city with all the illegal guns being fired off. There's got to be some way to cut down on the problem weapons while still giving hunters and sport shooters what they need.

 

[ironsides]

All guns are serialized right from the manufacture so when a gun shop sells a unlicensed weapon to a individual and it is used in a crime, the weapon (when and if found) can be traced from the company to the dealer, The manufacturer cannot be charged with anything because they provided necessary paperwork.

Legally a person from one state cannot purchase a handgun in another state that they do not live in.


Chicago is a good example murder rate of 15.65 per 100,000

New York City - 6.58 per 100,000 people

Weapons are not banned in NYC, just they are stricter as to who can buy them. As with Chicago, guns can be bought from surrounding counties and towns.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

All guns are serialized right from the manufacture so when a gun shop sells a unlicensed weapon to a individual and it is used in a crime, the weapon (when and if found) can be traced from the company to the dealer, The manufacturer cannot be charged with anything because they provided necessary paperwork.

Legally a person from one state cannot purchase a handgun in another state that they do not live in.


Chicago is a good example murder rate of 15.65 per 100,000

New York City - 6.58 per 100,000 people

Weapons are not banned in NYC, just they are stricter as to who can buy them. As with Chicago, guns can be bought from surrounding counties and towns.

From what I recall the problem gun dealers use doctored paperwork and the illegal street dealers remove the serial numbers from the weapons they sell.

95% of gun dealers in the US are legitimate, but the bad eggs are responsible for putting a lot of the problem guns into the hands of criminals.

 

[geiseric]

...The ONLY use of the firearms registry is to aid in the confiscation of weapons...

Maybe. But only, as we've discussed, if accountability is not a concern. Like the Mounties said, "Without registration, anyone can buy and sell firearms privately and there would be no record".

 

[ironsides]

Always possible to get rid of serial numbers, but crime labs can see a filed off or otherwise removed number. When the number is stamped it compresses the metal on the weapon. I would guess that less than 1% of gun dealers supply 90% of illegal arms sold in Mexico and the U.S.

 

[Colpy]

Maybe. But only, as we've discussed, if accountability is not a concern. Like the Mounties said, "Without registration, anyone can buy and sell firearms privately and there would be no record".

SO WHAT??????

Everyone can buy and sell firearms now, and there is no record......because the government completely over-stepped the bounds of rationality in 1995, and inspired rebellion among the most steadfastly conservative group in Canada; gun owners.

Therefore there are millions........estimates are between 3 and 6 million unregistered firearms in this country.....a vast pool of uncontrolled weapons. These will be passed around to who knows who, because they are illegal.......therefore their trade will not be among licensed firearms owners, but among the entire population.

The gun registry is counter-productive in every conceivable way. It is an expensive farce, a inspiration for rebellion and non-compliance, a completely useless placebo for the urban latte drinking panty-waists, a call to scorn of the law for the best of us.

Get rid of it.

For starters.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

They like it in Miramichi.

CBC News - New Brunswick - Gun-registry vote saves Miramichi jobs

More than 200 jobs at the Canada Firearms Centre in Miramichi, N.B., are safe after federal MPs voted Wednesday not to abolish the long-gun registry.

I know what you're saying though, it's backed a lot of otherwise law abiding people into a corner and cost a lot of money.​

 

[geiseric]

SO WHAT??????

Everyone can buy and sell firearms now, and there is no record......because the government completely over-stepped the bounds of rationality in 1995, and inspired rebellion among the most steadfastly conservative group in Canada; gun owners.

Therefore there are millions........estimates are between 3 and 6 million unregistered firearms in this country.....a vast pool of uncontrolled weapons. These will be passed around to who knows who, because they are illegal.......therefore their trade will not be among licensed firearms owners, but among the entire population.

The gun registry is counter-productive in every conceivable way. It is an expensive farce, a inspiration for rebellion and non-compliance, a completely useless placebo for the urban latte drinking panty-waists, a call to scorn of the law for the best of us.

Get rid of it.

For starters.

Rebellion certainly does sound a lot more heroic than sabotage.

 

[Colpy]

They like it in Miramichi.

CBC News - New Brunswick - Gun-registry vote saves Miramichi jobs

I know what you're saying though, it's backed a lot of otherwise law abiding people into a corner and cost a lot of money.​

Not to nit-pick, but no, they don't like it in Miramichi.............Miramichi is represented by a Conservative Party MP, and gun control is definitely an issue.........

Charlie Hubbard, of the Liberal Party, was the MP there for years, and he kept his seat throughout the years of the hotly-contested debate over Liberal gun control. He did so by consistently voting against his own party, despite being whipped.....he voted against the Firearms Act at every opportunity. And was re-elected.

A Liberal with cojones....imagine that!

Rebellion certainly does sound a lot more heroic than sabotage.

In this case, they are exactly the same thing..........

Sabotage is always a factor in rebellion.

 

[geiseric]

In this case, they are exactly the same thing..........

Sabotage is always a factor in rebellion.

So is facing justice.

 

[Colpy]

So is facing justice.

Not justice....perhaps the law, but if you knew the ins and outs of the Firearms Act, you wouldn't be so disingenuous as to label it justice.

BTW, got anything worthwhile to say, outside of a one line "zinger" or two?

What is your opinion, and why?

What do you know about the subject? So far, the indications are "not much".

 

[geiseric]

My opinion is that you and yours are acting like a bunch of paranoid reactionary spoiled brats. Thanks for asking.

 

[Colpy]

My opinion is that you and yours are acting like a bunch of paranoid reactionary spoiled brats. Thanks for asking.

Ahh....thank you.

Before now I wasn't sure you were completely misinformed.........now I am sure. Either you don't understand the situation, or you are a dangerous control freak.

Allow me to educate you....

The Firearms Act, of which the registration system is part, is unconstitutional in several ways.

First of all, it is a violation of the right to be free from unreasonable search, in that removes the requirement that a judge have some evidence a crime has been committed before he can issue a search warrant. Under the firearms Act, if I refuse entry to an "inspector", the judge may issue a warrant, no evidence necessary.

Secondly the right to remain silent is violated. I am instructed by the Act to offer all assistance to any "inspector" including answering
his questions. An absolute violation of one's right against self-incrimination.

So, if I were running a crack house with a cache of illegal weapons, you could not search my house without a warrant issued on the basis of EVIDENCE that a crime had been committed, and you could not coerce me to incriminate myself, but because I have registered perfectly legal firearms, those rights are denied me.

Absolutely outrageous.

Registration serves no purpose other than to further the seizure of firearms bought perfectly legally. This has happened in both Great Britain and Australia, where the vast majority of firearms have been collected by the government. It has also happened in Canada, where several types of firearms have been seized without compensation.........if one can follow the precedent set, registration MEANS eventual confiscation.

And YES, Victoria, we do have a right to keep arms, an ancient and traditional right, recognized as such in the English Bill of Rights of 1689.................

As well, many of the greatest political and legal philosophers of the last 500 years recognize the right to keep arms as the backbone of a free society.....John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, William Blackstone........

Reactionary? Hardly.......just the opposite.

In short, the Firearms Act is an attempt by latte-swilling, fear-ridden, panty-waist urban control freaks to destroy what has traditionally been an important part of real Canadian culture..........were I a whiny liberal lover of victimhood, I'd call it "cultural genocide"........

But I'm not.


And we are not standing still for it.