Gun Control is Completely Useless.

taxslave

taxslave

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bluebyrd35 said:
Their gun control laws are very typical of all the countries with low gun violence .........How those laws come about is not the point. The point is that gun control laws work!!

The contention of this thread is that they don't work an no matter how I prove they do, seems to go over everyone's head. Smarten up for Pete's sake.


It is not how many own guns, it is about the laws on whether or not gun laws work........ to whom and under what circumstances they are acquired. The waiting period , investigations on mental & criminal histories, etc. etc.

I am sorry but I have never in my life dealt with so many people who do not read what I say, twist what I write and believe what I don't say . Incredible......I am beginning to think I am dealing with a bunch of adolescents with only one idea and very little notion of what the idea is from one moment to another.
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Maybe you should read what you think you say before you post it then.
 
waldo

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Tecumsehsbones said:
3. I said this before, and I'm serious about it. For much of Canadian history, in much of Canada, the inability to get along with people in small spaces meant freezing to death. Not going so far as to call it evolution, or even adaptation, on a genetic level, but more a cultural thing. The relative harshness of your climate reinforces community effort and, most importantly, the ability to get along with others in small spaces.
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as 75% of the Canadian population lives within 160 kilos (100 miles) of the U.S. border... is that what accounts for the similar/like gun-culture attitude of Americans living within states bordering Canada? :mrgreen:
 
Colpy

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waldo said:
as 75% of the Canadian population lives within 160 kilos (100 miles) of the U.S. border... is that what accounts for the similar/like gun-culture attitude of Americans living within states bordering Canada? :mrgreen:
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Go WAY back to the first of this thread and you'll find a comparison of similar states and provinces divided by only a border.

You might be surprised.

Leave out the American inner cities along the border and things look very different in comparison.

Here: I updated it for you:

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, and obtain a license. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record. Montana requires NO license to carry concealed handguns outside city limits.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (F), Minnesota ( C)

Here are the homicide rates for the concerned areas, years 2009 to 2013 inclusive:

CANADA (per 100,000 per year)
Manitoba: 4.1
Saskatchewan: 3.1
Alberta: 2.3

UNITED STATES (per 100,000 per year)
Minnesota: 1.7
North Dakota: 2.5
Montana: 2.7

Not quite what you expected, huh?

Given some time, I am gonna do the other connecting states without large inner city problems.......Idaho, Washington State (vs BC) Vermont (vs Quebec), Maine (vs New Brunswick)...........stay tuned.

SOURCES
2013 State Scorecard | Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory (Homicide rate)
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Okay....from here on out the comparisons are simply between connecting areas. Populations size, and urban/rural splits are not considered, only geographical location and level of gun control (constant in Canada, each state rated by the Brady Campaign in the US)

Murder rates are the mean of the five years, 2009 to 2013

USA
Alaska: 4.0 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating is F

CANADA (per 100,000 per year)
British Columbia: 1.9
Northwest Territories: 5.9 (yes, really)

Well, that kinda worked out for the gun controllers........, then it didn't, huh??

Moving down south.......I think Washington/BC is a good comparison on all fronts, but I did not actually check out population size:

USA
Washington State: 2.6 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating is C
Idaho: 1.7 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating F

CANADA
British Columbia: 1.9 (per 100,000 per year)

Not that far apart.

And traveling east along the border.......for Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota please see my post just below.

USA
Michigan: 6.3 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating C
Ohio: 4.2 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating D
Pennsylvania: 5.1 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating C
New York: 3.8 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating A-

CANADA
Ontario: 1.2 (per 100,000 per year)

Hmmmm.........interesting. That large US inner city thing coming into play.

USA
Vermont: 1.4 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating F
New Hampshire: 1.1 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating D-

CANADA
Quebec: 1.1 (per 100,000 per year)

How can that be?? lol. Practically identical between two states with almost no gun laws, and that epitome of the gun grabbers Utopia....Quebec.

And last but not least:

USA
Maine: 1.9 (per 100,000 per year) Brady Campaign rating F

CANADA
New Brunswick: 1.1 (per 100,000 per year)

Just running this stuff up the flagpole to see who salutes, and who gives it the moon...

Interesting, to say the least.

I challenge anyone to show how this in any way supports the idea that less guns means less murder.

SOURCES
2013 State Scorecard | Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory (Homicide rate)
 
Colpy

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Ludlow said:
Have a cousin who likes guns. Interesting the man has been a loudmouthed coward all of his life but suddenly, he's become a hard azz with his little toys.
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Thanks for that useful tidbit of information.

I do appreciate it when people put some effort into the debate.


One last thing.....state to state comparison of Murder Rate (MR) and Brady Campaign Rating (BCR)


MR : BCR : State

6.3 : C : Michigan

5.1 : C : Pennsylvania

4.2 : D : Ohio

4.0 : F : Alaska

3.8 : A- : New York

2.7 : F : Montana

2.6 : C : Washington

2.5 : F : North Dakota

1.9 : F : Maine

1.7 : C : Minnesota

1.7 : F : Idaho

1.4 : F : Vermont

1.1 : D- : New Hampshire
 
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pgs

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Ludlow said:
Have a cousin who likes guns. Interesting the man has been a loudmouthed coward all of his life but suddenly, he's become a hard azz with his little toys.
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And you let your little friend play with fire and blame the fire . Good for you .
 
Colpy

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States that border on Canada, from my posts below:

The 5 states with the WORST murder rates: Brady Campaign ratings: A-, C, C, D, F.

The 5 states with the LOWEST murder rates: Brady Campaign ratings: C, D-, F, F, F.
 
B

bluebyrd35

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LOL well I'm sorry but those stats are so far off the wall as to be ridiculous. I have come to the conclusion that reality means nothing to some folks. Unreality is not to my taste. My life is exciting enough without resorting to fantasy.
 
Tecumsehsbones

Tecumsehsbones

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bluebyrd35 said:
LOL well I'm sorry but those stats are so far off the wall as to be ridiculous. I have come to the conclusion that reality means nothing to some folks. Unreality is not to my taste. My life is exciting enough without resorting to fantasy.
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Taking part of the story as the whole story is the next best thing.
 
DaSleeper

DaSleeper

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bluebyrd35 said:
LOL well I'm sorry but those stats are so far off the wall as to be ridiculous. I have come to the conclusion that reality means nothing to some folks. Unreality is not to my taste. My life is exciting enough without resorting to fantasy.
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You must have been looking in the mirror when you said that...
Stats mean nothing when they disagree with your ideology huh?
 
Colpy

Colpy

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bluebyrd35 said:
LOL well I'm sorry but those stats are so far off the wall as to be ridiculous. I have come to the conclusion that reality means nothing to some folks. Unreality is not to my taste. My life is exciting enough without resorting to fantasy.
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Well of course! They don't fit into your little world, so they don't exist!

I mean, don't bother checking the sources to see if the are reputable or accurately cited, that would require wayyyy too much thought!

Intellectually lazy, and incompetent.

Just go away....go watch the unicorns frolic in your back yard in your "reality".
 
Tecumsehsbones

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Colpy said:
Just go away....go watch the unicorns frolic in your back yard in your "reality".
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Can I come, too?


 
Tecumsehsbones

Tecumsehsbones

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Colpy said:
LOL!!

A accurate depiction of her reality.
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I'm pretty much on your side about guns, but hey. . . unicorns!

BTW, my 30 year old medical lab tech daughter is a pony fanatic.

Sorry, I don't get it.

:)
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Meh, it's a fandom. I don't think anybody really "gets" other people's fandoms. I've broken it down to:

1. The animation is terrific.
2. The characters are superbly written, more well-rounded than many of the characters on "adult" TV.
3. The plots are quite engaging, most of the time.
4. The relentless positivity can be refreshing in a cynical world.
5. Dat flank! NO! NO! BAD CLOPPER!

But all that really just boils down to "it tickles my fancy." And gives me lots of memes to post here.
 
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