Group of Tory Backbenchers Pushing To Limit Prime Minister's Power

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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That would essentially be a US style system with a president and a congress elected separately.

The main downside of that system is that it can be much harder to get anything done and it is much more prone to pork barrel spending.

Nothing much gets done with what we have either. The whole point is to make elected representatives responsible to the electorate not the party. The biggest problem in the US is only having two parties. With 1/2 dozen parties and a PM elected separately he/she would have to work with the other parties to pass legislation. SHould be much like having a minority government. Along with this would have to be an elected senate that could not just veto legislation because they have a majority.

Hey buddy if you're to chicken sh it to use the word Jew in a sentence and have to slink away from association employing a childish misspelling then I don't know where you get the idea you got credit as pertains to the issue. Because you don't. You're afraid of the word Jew. So fok off and stop labeling people you ain't good enough to face in any situation. We have a difference of opinion in that we are equal, I can defend mine position with facts, you can't even spell the word. At least you are honestly self titled as a slave.

Racist pricks like yo and the rest of the jew haters on here are not worth pissing on if you were on fire.
 

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
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Nothing much gets done with what we have either. The whole point is to make elected representatives responsible to the electorate not the party. The biggest problem in the US is only having two parties. With 1/2 dozen parties and a PM elected separately he/she would have to work with the other parties to pass legislation. SHould be much like having a minority government. Along with this would have to be an elected senate that could not just veto legislation because they have a majority.

Well, by comparison, the Canadian government actually get a lot done. Harper has really taken it to the extreme with his massive omnibus bills and limiting debate, but it is hard to deny that it is efficient.

In comparison, in the US, passing a budget is an agonizing and costly struggle. The US functions as if they have more than two parties in that congressmen and senators don't vote always along party lines. You have to court individuals and various groups to get the necessary support. The problem with that is that too often people demand something for themselves in order to support any bill and the result are some really confused bills that are very different from their original intention.

So while the US could be seen as more democratic, the results are an enormous amount of waste and making it almost impossible to enact any real change.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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This post did lead to an amusing exchange but it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

Ya, I just realized that. Oh well, there's always tomorrow.


Nothing much gets done with what we have either. The whole point is to make elected representatives responsible to the electorate not the party. The biggest problem in the US is only having two parties. With 1/2 dozen parties and a PM elected separately he/she would have to work with the other parties to pass legislation. SHould be much like having a minority government. Along with this would have to be an elected senate that could not just veto legislation because they have a majority.



Racist pricks like yo and the rest of the jew haters on here are not worth pissing on if you were on fire.

What race you hypocritical bone head, it's a forking religion. It's more than politically correct to criticize christians here at CC and the wholesale slagging of Moslems is a regular featured column so what makes a Jewish Question beyond mention. They ain't the victims in Palestine, yet.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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The imperial form of the PMOs office is a relatively new phenomenon. In the original constitutional concept of Parliament, and in the Mother of Parliaments (Westminster).. real power rested first and foremost with the back benchers.. those closest to their Constituents.. who, in fact, chose the PM and Cabinet from their ranks.

It was the Party system which separated that responsibility and allowed an executive branch independent of the legislative organ to develop. In fact it the roles have been reversed, with MPs now required to have nomination forms signed by the PM, and being beholden to him for all the perks and powers of their office. That is an anathema of the Parliamentary system. In fact it divides the electorate from their representatives.

It is possible for the Backbenchers to revolt. It's happened in Britain when the Tories tossed that mad witch Maggie Thatcher out on her ear, after years of increasingly arrogant, cruel and irrational behaviour. But the PMO office now tries to weed out all indepedent thought and action from the caucus.

It's bad for the country when you get a pathetic dullard like Harper in office, with no one with the gumption to take him on. The Conservative Party itself has never digested the shotgun wedding of the Reform and PC parties, which makes it a seething cauldron on dissatisfaction.. but unfortunately filled with weaklings and sycophants chosen by the PM.
 
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BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
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The imperial form of the PMOs office is a relatively new phenomenon. In the original constitutional concept of Parliament, and in the Mother of Parliaments (Westminster).. real power rested first and foremost with the back benchers.. those closest to their Constituents.. who, in fact, chose the PM and Cabinet from their ranks.

It was the Party system which separated that responsibility and allowed an executive branch independent of the legislative organ to develop. In fact it the roles have been reversed, with MPs now required to have nomination forms signed by the PM, and being beholden to him for all the perks and powers of their office. That is an anathema of the Parliamentary system. In fact it divides the electorate from their representatives.

It is possible for the Backbenchers to revolt. It's happened in Britain when the Tories tossed that mad witch Maggie Thatcher out on her ear, after years of increasingly arrogant, cruel and irrational behaviour. But the PMO office now tries to weed out all indepedent thought and action from the caucus.

It's bad for the country when you get a pathetic dullard like Harper in office, with no one with the gumption to take him on. The Conservative Party itself has never digested the shotgun wedding of the Reform and PC parties, which makes it a seething cauldron on dissatisfaction.. but unfortunately filled with weaklings and sycophants chosen by the PM.

Harper has really taken to heart the idea that you need to gain/maintain power first and foremost before you can do any good, more so than many other politicians. He has his ideals, but he is more than willing to throw them out the window if it comes down to the choice of power vs ideals.

This is a man who once swore he would never appoint and unelected senator. This is a man who bitterly criticized the former government for proroguing parliament to avoid facing a scandal. But when not doing these things threatened his power, there was no hesitation to dive in head first.

The Liberals countered this with high minded intellectuals like Dion and Ignatief, which was a pretty pathetic strategy. Harper was happy to shamelessly attack them in any way that might stick.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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How is that Ministry of Transparency coming along for Harper after 8 years? It'll be up and running anytime now?
 

Zipperfish

House Member
Apr 12, 2013
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How is that Ministry of Transparency coming along for Harper after 8 years? It'll be up and running anytime now?

It's kind of evolved from Transparency to the Ministry of One-Way Glass. They can see everything you are up to, but you've got no business finding out what they are up to.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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It will pass- some minor amendments but it will pass.
Michael Den Tandt: Michael Chong’s Reform Act has the whiff of revolution | National Post

Let’s dispense, to begin, with the quaint fiction that MP Michael Chong’s proposed Reform Act has nothing whatever to do with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Senate spending scandal. It has everything to do with both.

Granted, the Wellington-Halton Hills MP has long been engaged with democratic reform, having tried and failed in 2010 to impose intelligence on the daily Question Period in the House of Commons. Yes, this particular bill was in the works when Senator Mike Duffy was still a twinkle in the Prime Minister’s eye, and Nigel Wright his trusted consiglieri.

This in no way alters that, were it not for the scandal and monumental bungling that have overtaken the Prime Minister’s Office since last May, Chong’s bill would have zero hope of surviving first reading. As things stand, it has significant multiparty support and momentum *— most tellingly, from backbenchers respected in the Tory caucus, including James Rajotte and Larry Miller.

Any number of factors could derail the bill. But the fact it has drawn such broad interest is entirely due to timing and context. That context includes the Wright-Duffy scandal, but extends to the seven-plus years of Harper government, during which the modern tradition of MPs as talking-point babblers and imbeciles, already entrenched when the Conservatives took power, has reached a new low. Exhibit A: Paul Calandra. If enacted the bill would not take effect until a week after the next federal election, but ever mind. Its energy is all about now.

Next let’s acknowledge, up front, the good work Chong has done. Canadian democracy is sick. The lopsided accumulation of power by party leaders, the PMO in particular, is at the heart of the sickness. The quiet Tory caucus discussions that preceded Chong’s Reform Act began amid the furor last year over the Harper government’s first, massive omnibus budget bill, C-38, which neutered ordinary MPs as legislators. Through initiative and perseverance, Chong has toppled the applecart. Whatever comes of it, it seems unlikely MPs of any party will happily revert to being lemmings. Once enjoyed, power is not readily ceded.

There are problems with the Reform Act.

First among them is that the threshold it establishes for initiating removal of a party leader by caucus, a letter signed by 15% of members, seems intuitively too low, and an invitation to perpetual instability, particularly among parties with a smallish seat count. A party with a caucus of 35, such as the Liberal party has now, could see a leadership review triggered by six MPs. That would strike some as an arbitrary seizure of power from the grass roots, by the party caucus in the House.

Second, the placing of all authority over nominations in the hands of local ridings, while good in principle, needs to come with a caveat; should a riding association be taken over by forces hostile to the parent party, it must retain the right to disavow or decertify that association not the candidate directly, but the entire local board. In practice this would be rare, because of the upheaval it would cause. Nevertheless it must remain an option for use in extremis, as it is now, as a matter of common sense. The bill and accompanying literature are silent on this.

Third, the Reform Act encroaches on areas in which government has never before ventured, in any Westminster-style parliament that I am aware of. It’s true that it enshrines practices common in the U.K, Australia and New Zealand; but in these cases, most famously the Conservative party in Britain, these are party practices, not legislated and not in use by all parties. Political parties’ historical rights are integrally bound up with freedom of association. The Reform Act in effect big-foots over parties’ traditional prerogatives. Maybe that’s necessary under the circumstances. It should be discussed.

The New Democrats and Liberals can’t afford to be seen ragging the puck on any reform aimed at fixing what ails parliament

Here’s what’s truly intriguing about the furor surrounding this bill: Its natural momentum is such that, in one form or another, assuming no election call or surprise prorogation obliterates it, it may be unstoppable. Chong’s timing could not have been more fortunate. Prime Minister Stephen Harper, weakened by scandal, is in no position to move openly against it. By convention, he won’t whip the vote. The New Democrats and Liberals, meantime, can’t afford to be seen ragging the puck on any reform aimed at fixing what ails parliament. NDP leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal leader Justin Trudeau have already mused favourably about the Reform Act. If they have misgivings there’s not a great deal they can do about it, beyond offering careful suggestions for amendment, should it ever reach that stage.

This is the simple genius of Chong’s move, so clever it’s a wonder it hasn’t happened before: It pits 304 * — every MP in the House who is not a party leader, plus Elizabeth May —* against three, or four if you include Bloc leader Daniel Paille. With the deck stacked that way, it’s no wonder the ground has shifted. It is, indeed, the stuff of which revolutions are made.