God sent the iron from heaven

Torch light

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Does the iron exist on earth from the start, or was it sent down from the sky?
Of course, iron is one of the important elements present on earth, then how does God say in the Quran that He sent down the iron from the sky or heaven?

Q:33
 
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Torch light

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Quran 57: 25, which means:
(And We sent down the iron [included in the meteorites falling down from the space], in which are both keen violence and [many] benefits to people. b)
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b They made of it swords, knives, axes, saws, and others. In the past they made use of the iron from the meteorites because the iron does not exist freely on the earth on account of its affinity to combine with oxygen; therefore, they searched for it in the meteorites falling from space; in such meteorites, they found free iron which they took and made their swords from it.

One of the nice tales about meteorites is that a meteorite or a celestial rock fell in Punjab [: a district in the northwest of the Indian subcontinent], in the year 1620 AD, out of which Emperor Jehangir made a sword that common people called the Thunderbolt Sword.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/57.htm#a57_25
 

Jinentonix

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Iron is the final phase of nuclear fusion in a star similar in size and spectrum to ours. When it goes nova it blasts elemental iron into space. Larger stars going nova or super nova produce even heavier elements. These elements eventually end up forming into more solid objects with other elements forming planets, moons and asteroids/meteors, and even new stars.
So in fact, the quran got one right, in a sense. The iron on Earth was formed two ways; as part of the actual material that formed the Earth and from asteroids/meteors slamming into the primordial Earth after it's early formation. However, most of it sank into the core along with a lot of nickel.
 
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Torch light

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Iron is the final phase of nuclear fusion in a star similar in size and spectrum to ours. When it goes nova it blasts elemental iron into space. Larger stars going nova or super nova produce even heavier elements. These elements eventually end up forming into more solid objects with other elements forming planets, moons and asteroids/meteors, and even new stars.
So in fact, the quran got one right, in a sense. The iron on Earth was formed two ways; as part of the actual material that formed the Earth and from asteroids/meteors slamming into the primordial Earth after it's early formation. However, most of it sank into the core along with a lot of nickel.
This is a mixture of wrong and correct things.
In fact, Abu Abd-Allah said to me: the matter had been originated from the ether particles which fill the space: by uniting many particles of the ether.
I say on the same rule: Then by uniting the atoms of hydrogen: other elements were produced of heavier atomic weights.
I think: you are wrong: iron was not formed on Earth, but in the previous sun (the mother of our Earth) by the fusion of many hydrogen atoms: maybe.
It is also formed in the same way in our present sun (and in other suns or stars.)
However, the iron on Earth is not found free but combined with O2, while the iron in the meteorites is free and was used by the ancient to make many tools: like knives and swords.
Why iron is mostly in the core of Earth and the other planets? Because Earth and the planets were flaming with heat, and the iron and the other elements were in liquid forms and these elements went or as you said: sank to the center of the earth because the iron and nickel are heavy. The same was discovered about the core of Mercury.

Formation of the planets
 

Torch light

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There is God.
If anything is not there, it is you. There is not you. You are like an image or mirage.
So I do not doubt about God, but others are dubious.
Therefore, your assertions are useless, which you only assert to yourself in a way of ignoring and denying God the Creator.
 
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petros

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There is God.
If anything is not there, it is you. There is not you. You are like an image or mirage.
So I do not doubt about God, but others are dubious.
Therefore, your assertions are useless, which you only assert to yourself in a way of ignoring and denying God the Creator.
What is a BIF? What us hematite? What is magnetite? Why wasn't iron found in deposition on the Pre-Cambrian earth? Why did Allah wait 4 billion years to create life which deposited iron on the surface of earth? Prior to smelting oxides the only iron man had came from space as meteorites just like the one you whoreship in Mecca.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I don't object; I also say "Yes". But you did not answer the question: Why in the Quran: God sent down the iron from the sky?
He didn't. There are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for meteorites striking the Earth, no need to invoke a deity, and besides, meteorite impacts are not the major source of iron ores on the planet. Those are BIFs (banded iron formations, which I'm sure you didn't know), magnetite, hematite, taconite, and some others you could look up, mostly oxides of iron that are believed to be indicative of the oxygenation of the atmosphere by lifeforms of various kinds much earlier in Earth's history. But you probably think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old too, that would be consistent with a lot of your other claims.
 
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petros

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Iron is fascinating nonetheless. You hear about the "chemical soup" life spawned from but Iron is the least talked about. Hematite in particular is how we'll find life on other planets.

Thanks to fossized hematite filaments we've learned that oxygen isn't necessary for photosynthesis which opens the door for life to be possible on planets we thought it was unpossible to exist on. Maybe even on meteors, comets and asteroids that sleeps and wakes with each oblonged orbit of the sun.
 
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Torch light

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He didn't. There are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations for meteorites striking the Earth, no need to invoke a deity, and besides, meteorite impacts are not the major source of iron ores on the planet. Those are BIFs (banded iron formations, which I'm sure you didn't know), magnetite, hematite, taconite, and some others you could look up, mostly oxides of iron that are believed to be indicative of the oxygenation of the atmosphere by lifeforms of various kinds much earlier in Earth's history. But you probably think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old too, that would be consistent with a lot of your other claims.
How much I wrote and said in this forum, and still you do not know, which indicates you did not read carefully.

You said: "He didn't." which are the words of a disbeliever; I say: He did certainly, as He does everything in the universe.
You said: "meteorite impacts are not the major source of iron ores on the planet," I did not say this, but said according to the words of the interpreter of the Quran; that the iron coming down in the meteorites is in its free form, and the ancients used some of this free iron to make some of their tools.
You said: "BIFs (banded iron formations, which I'm sure you didn't know)" I say: Yes indeed I didn't know this, so what?
You said: "that are believed to be indicative of the oxygenation of the atmosphere by lifeforms of various kinds much earlier in Earth's history" I say: This is not convincing in fact.
You said: "But you probably think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old" I say: I didn't say this, and I don't think it is less than 10,000 years. This is only what you imagine. Q:33
 

Torch light

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Iron is fascinating nonetheless. You hear about the "chemical soup" life spawned from but Iron is the least talked about. Hematite in particular is how we'll find life on other planets.

Thanks to fossized hematite filaments we've learned that oxygen isn't necessary for photosynthesis which opens the door for life to be possible on planets we thought it was unpossible to exist on. Maybe even on meteors, comets and asteroids that sleeps and wakes with each oblonged orbit of the sun.
So you now speak about life on the planets, which a few years ago you denied insistently.
Again I say there is life on the planets with all its forms: man, animal, plant and microbes in addition to genies: the gaseous beings.
The planets are inhabited

This is true from Mars and beyond, while Mercury and Venus: the life on these two planets has been exterminated.
The journey to Venus is dangerous
 

Dexter Sinister

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How much I wrote and said in this forum, and still you do not know, which indicates you did not read carefully.

You said: "He didn't." which are the words of a disbeliever; I say: He did certainly, as He does everything in the universe.
I did read carefully, you're just wrong, that's all. Those are indeed the words of a disbeliever, that's what I am, but according to that statement I must be a disbeliever because he made me that way, for some inscrutable purpose of his own. Not much I can do about that.
 

Torch light

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These are and were the words of disbelievers all the time.

You said: "I must be a disbeliever because he made me that way,..Not much I can do about that."
Neither can I.. He is your Lord and to Him [: to His ruling] you will return following your death.

But you may have some way: if anyone repents from his wrongdoing (and everyone knows his own wrongdoing), it might be a way to get His guidance.
So everyone knows his own wrongdoing, but not everyone repents from the wrongdoing.
The Godfearing repents and regrets his wrongdoing, but the other party do not recall their doing wrong, rather they ignore them and indulge in more wrongdoing.

The proof is there, but the disbeliever dislikes following it, while the believer sees it as logical... God created everything and moves every stationary thing and stops every moving thing.

This Quran aya which I have read today explains this:
Quran 22: 18, which means:
(Do you not realize that every [angel] in the [ethereal] heavens and every [spiritual creature a] on the earth [as a whole] ‘submit and prostrate themselves to God and comply with His commands’; as do [all the celestial objects]: the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains b, and c [on earth:] the trees d, the animals e and many of the people [‘prostrate themselves to God and comply with His command’ f]?

But many are justly deserving of punishment g. Whomever God disgraces [with punishment], there is none to honor him [with prosperity and reward.]

God does whatever [favor for believers and punishment for disbelievers] He wills.
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a These are the righteous genies and human souls and others.
b It means the meteorites which orbit around the earth.
And all these objects: the sun, the moon, the stars and the meteorites are subjected to His command, obeying the law of gravity and of repelling force.
c Then after God – be glorified – completed mentioning the celestial objects, He started to mention about the inhabitants of the earth…
d Trees comply with His command, giving their fruits at the stated time, and as has He decreed with His wisdom, and made the bounties in their fruits.
e That is all animals moving on earth, they too submit to His command by means of the instinct which He inserts in them and the advantages that He made in them. Such subjection is to the extent that one boy may drive, before him, fifty camels.
f These are the believers who deserve the reward.
g Because they refuse to adore His greatness and to comply with His obedience.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/22.htm#a22_18
 
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Serryah

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These are and were the words of disbelievers all the time.

You said: "I must be a disbeliever because he made me that way,..Not much I can do about that."
Neither can I.. He is your Lord and to Him [: to His ruling] you will return following your death.

But you may have some way: if anyone repents from his wrongdoing (and everyone knows his own wrongdoing), it might be a way to get His guidance.
So everyone knows his own wrongdoing, but not everyone repents from the wrongdoing.
The Godfearing repents and regrets his wrongdoing, but the other party do not recall their doing wrong, rather they ignore them and indulge in more wrongdoing.

The proof is there, but the disbeliever dislikes following it, while the believer sees it as logical... God created everything and moves every stationary thing and stops every moving thing.

This Quran aya which I have read today explains this:
Quran 22: 18, which means:
(Do you not realize that every [angel] in the [ethereal] heavens and every [spiritual creature a] on the earth [as a whole] ‘submit and prostrate themselves to God and comply with His commands’; as do [all the celestial objects]: the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains b, and c [on earth:] the trees d, the animals e and many of the people [‘prostrate themselves to God and comply with His command’ f]?

But many are justly deserving of punishment g. Whomever God disgraces [with punishment], there is none to honor him [with prosperity and reward.]

God does whatever [favor for believers and punishment for disbelievers] He wills.
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

a These are the righteous genies and human souls and others.
b It means the meteorites which orbit around the earth.
And all these objects: the sun, the moon, the stars and the meteorites are subjected to His command, obeying the law of gravity and of repelling force.
c Then after God – be glorified – completed mentioning the celestial objects, He started to mention about the inhabitants of the earth…
d Trees comply with His command, giving their fruits at the stated time, and as has He decreed with His wisdom, and made the bounties in their fruits.
e That is all animals moving on earth, they too submit to His command by means of the instinct which He inserts in them and the advantages that He made in them. Such subjection is to the extent that one boy may drive, before him, fifty camels.
f These are the believers who deserve the reward.
g Because they refuse to adore His greatness and to comply with His obedience.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/22.htm#a22_18

You do realize that for any of that to matter, he has to believe.

He already said he doesn't.

So why continue to throw out verses of a text he doesn't believe in about a God he doesn't believe in?
 

Torch light

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You do realize that for any of that to matter, he has to believe.

He already said he doesn't.

So why continue to throw out verses of a text he doesn't believe in about a God he doesn't believe in?
If a seed is inserted in good soil, it grows; if it is inserted in a salt land, it fails; if a seed is cast somewhere, it might be that some birds will eat it.
Therefore, if you do not like it, perhaps somebody else will accept it; and if he does not accept it, others may do or not. If not so, then I myself hopes the reward from God Most Gracious.

The parable of the good word in the Quran 14: 24-25, which mean:
(24. Do you not see how God presents a parable [about the righteous work and the good word?] ––
a good word [which man says
a ] is like a good tree b : its kind is permanent [on earth c ], and its reproduced trees are [taken] into heaven d ,
25. Giving its fruit at all times e with its Lord's leave.
God surely propounds parables to people
f that they may receive admonition.
)
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24 a Which is the word of the exclusive devotion to God alone: that is to say : ―"No god but God", or other words of mentioning God like the praising and the glorification [that is to say: ―"Praise is due to God", or ―"Glory be to God".]
24 b It is every tree with fruit, but without spikes, and it gives shade from the sun to anyone who sits under it.
24 c It means: the material tree remains on earth, and of it, many trees will be derived by means of pruning, or seeding by planting the seed to be another tree.
24 d It means: The ethereal trees derived from it, will be taken by angels to heaven to be among the trees of Paradise. That is because trees and fruits have spirits, just as how man and animal have spirits. So if one of the World trees is cut and is dead, then its spirit will not die, but will live for all years and eras, being fresh and fruitful with much many branches full of fruits; its leaves will not fall and it will not be depleted of its fruits; it does not need water, neither any manure; neither will coldness nor any disease kills it. I have fully explained about Paradise (or the Garden) and Trees of Paradise, in my book: Man after Death.

25 e It means: The ethereal tree gives you the fruit always, and has no limited time or season. This is like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 13: 37, which means: (Its food is perpetual, and [likewise] its shade!) It means: Its fruit exists on trees always.
25 f To let people understand and to make their minds comprehend that easily.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/14.htm#a14_24