God does not wrong people

[Ludlow]

Well I guess us humans can breath a bit easier now knowing that god is behind climate change.

....good one

 

[selfsame]

One moment you say God does not get involved, and then as a consequence of the actions of people god then "does" get involved.

Let me ask this. If god will punish people for doing wrong, why will he not prevent an innocent child from getting cancer.

God does everything in the existence.
It is like this: He creates people to show them mercy, but they choose to have misery and insist on their wrong-doing, disbelief and idolatry which lead to their punishment.

E.g. When people wrong each other, they will be misguided and they will disobey God and His messengers --> so He will set on them the poisonous snakes to bite many of them and insert terror and insecurity in their hearts.
Or He will set on them tigers, lions, wolves and other wild beasts to devour them and attack their villages.

 

[Twila]

Of course, your images are ready by hand.
In fact such miserable condition is only because of the wrong-doing of people; people wrong each other as did Ludlow say.
People make war and fighting and destroy the crop and this leads to starvation and diseases.

And because of their blasphemy and ingratitude to God, the rain stops coming on the land and drought appeared because of the idolatry of people and the wrong-doing of your civilized countries whose armies go here and there to spread their democracy.

Refer to the previous post #9 in this thread.

People make war because of their gods. Of course the images are readily at hand. Have you seen this world? Or are your blinders that tight?

People do what people do and if god created them, he created them THAT way. your god is fallible because he was created by people. You can make all the excuses you want for your god. but that is also proof that it doesn't exist cause if it did there'd be no reason for faith. there'd be no need for you to preach. Your imagination is running away from you. your fear is so great that you would bite off your nose to spite your face and never see it for what it was.

your god does wrong people and because of you.

in case this point got missed.

Only a pathological psychopath and coward would maim, kill, inflict disease upon children.

especially when it is within its' (supposed) powers to prevent, stop or otherwise put an end to such suffering by the innocent.

 

[Danbones]

funny about the way god inflicts diaper rash on lil genocidal maniacs
and lil mother teresas alike

 

[selfsame]

Do you really think those children in those images wrong each other, make war against each other, and destroy each others' crops? And that is why they are punished?

And you think those children in those images are blasphemous and ungrateful to this god?

If people are good and just and show gratitude to their Lord, neither they nor their children will suffer any evil, but they are wrong-doers of each other and the punishment involves them and in addition their children, their cattle and their crops.

Moreover, why not the civilized countries as do they call themselves help such African and other poor people everywhere? So where is their humanity, or only by words, while their money counts trillions of dollars? Few millions of such trillions (and in fact uncountable) will be enough.

In addition, they (the Western in particular) are responsible because they spread wars and destruction everywhere, and in stead of spending the wealth in researches and helping other servants of God, they expend that on weapons and destruction.

 

[AnnaG]

If people are good and just and show gratitude to their Lord, neither they nor their children will suffer any evil, but they are wrong-doers of each other and the punishment involves them and in addition their children, their cattle and their crops.

Moreover, why not the civilized countries as do they call themselves help such African and other poor people everywhere? So where is their humanity, or only by words, while their money counts trillions of dollars? Few millions of such trillions (and in fact uncountable) will be enough.

In addition, they (the Western in particular) are responsible because they spread wars and destruction everywhere, and in stead of spending the wealth in researches and helping other servants of God, they expend that on weapons and destruction.

meh You simply cannot hold a reasonable thought let alone post anything rational. Algae could do better.

Such a rational thing to kill, maim, inflict disease upon children because their parents are foolish. As I said, that is out-and-out cowardice and psychopathy.

If you steal my chickens, according to the same plan of your god, I can come along and kill your children. That is idiocy at its finest.

 

[Ludlow]

If people are good and just and show gratitude to their Lord, neither they nor their children will suffer any evil, but they are wrong-doers of each other and the punishment involves them and in addition their children, their cattle and their crops.

Moreover, why not the civilized countries as do they call themselves help such African and other poor people everywhere? So where is their humanity, or only by words, while their money counts trillions of dollars? Few millions of such trillions (and in fact uncountable) will be enough.

In addition, they (the Western in particular) are responsible because they spread wars and destruction everywhere, and in stead of spending the wealth in researches and helping other servants of God, they expend that on weapons and destruction.

I would ask the same of your rich oil nations such as Saudi Arabia. Your third pillar called the zakat commands you to give a portion of your riches to the poor. How much money has these oil sheiks given to help alleviate the poverty of those with nothing? The question remains however, if your god exists, why are these people suffering in the first place.

 

[selfsame]

People make war because of their gods.

People make war because of their gods: this is true; but the One God is different. He invites people to live in this World in peace and safety; and even to be safe in Paradise or Heaven in the Next Life.
While the enemies of God: it is they who stir wars and make destruction everywhere.

So such assertion that wars are because of God -- this is untrue and is a fallacy.
Wars occur among people because of their wronging each other and because they disobey God's commandments, specially the First One and so they fall in the idolatry and many gods and blasphemy and atheism and so they will divide and be many sects and then fighting and wars occur among them.

Wars took place among Jews on account of their disobedience and association and so they were punished by the fighting and wars that they did among themselves.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/english2.htm#Their_Hearts_Were_Hardened_

 

[Ludlow]

so don't sit back and pretend to be immune form greed you're just as responsible as anyone else on this planet.

 

[selfsame]

I would ask the same of your rich oil nations such as Saudi Arabia. Your third pillar called the zakat commands you to give a portion of your riches to the poor. How much money has these oil sheiks given to help alleviate the poverty of those with nothing? The question remains however, if your god exists, why are these people suffering in the first place.

I don't defend such rulers, but who is the richer? Moreover, their riches are not for themselves, but in the pockets of their enemies, and their enemies made wars on them so they themselves suffered much and their people became in need; and such oil states are now indebted to the West.
The West kills them and lends to them the weapon of killing each other and they are now indebted to the killer.

meh You simply cannot hold a reasonable thought let alone post anything rational. Algae could do better.

Such a rational thing to kill, maim, inflict disease upon children because their parents are foolish. As I said, that is out-and-out cowardice and psychopathy.

If you steal my chickens, according to the same plan of your god, I can come along and kill your children. That is idiocy at its finest.

If they are good and righteous as do they claim, then they and their children will be healthy and will prosper, and diseases will disappear.
If people are upright and obey God Most Gracious, they will prosper.
In fact even the West has a large number of incurable diseases like the AIDS and Cancer; so had they been good and just, such diseases would have disappeared and they might have been guided to know the correct treatment, or even may not need the treatment if the disease disappears.

 

[AnnaG]

If they are good and righteous as do they claim, then they and their children will be healthy and will prosper, and diseases will disappear.

I am not talking about children's parents. I am talking about children. Why should they suffer because of adults' idiocy?

If people are upright and obey God Most Gracious, they will prosper.

Nonsense. Good people are killed, maimed, diseased all the time regardless of this god.

In fact even the West has a large number of incurable diseases like the AIDS and Cancer;

Yes, the west has diseases. The east has those diseases. The south and north have those diseases.

so had they been good and just, such diseases would have disappeared and they might have been guided to know the correct treatment, or even may not need the treatment if the disease disappears.

That is NOT fact. That is presumption.

 

[Mowich]

If people are good and just and show gratitude to their Lord, neither they nor their children will suffer any evil,

Bull puckey, good people and their children are harmed every day. Or do you believe those little kids at Sandy Hook were somehow victims of their parent's wrong-doing rather than a violent psychopathic a s s h o l e.

 

[Ludlow]

I don't defend such rulers, but who is the richer? Moreover, their riches are not for themselves, but in the pockets of their enemies, and their enemies made wars on them so they themselves suffered much and their people became in need; and such oil states are now indebted to the West.
The West kills them and lends to them the weapon of killing each other and they are now indebted to the killer.



If they are good and righteous as do they claim, then they and their children will be healthy and will prosper, and diseases will disappear.
If people are upright and obey God Most Gracious, they will prosper.
In fact even the West has a large number of incurable diseases like the AIDS and Cancer; so had they been good and just, such diseases would have disappeared and they might have been guided to know the correct treatment, or even may not need the treatment if the disease disappears.

People obey your god every day and end up dying penniless. People live upright lives and obey your god all the days of their lives and get diseases and suffer . People live their lives for your god and spend their time n your streets begging for crumbs to sooth their swollen bellies. The promises you lay out as a reward for worshipping your god never materialize. Things never change and rewards are never given. Maybe it's time you find another who will keep their word.

 

[selfsame]

People obey your god every day and end up dying penniless. People live upright lives and obey your god all the days of their lives and get diseases and suffer . People live their lives for your god and spend their time n your streets begging for crumbs to sooth their swollen bellies. The promises you lay out as a reward for worshipping your god never materialize. Things never change and rewards are never given. Maybe it's time you find another who will keep their word.

The contrary of your words is true.
People disobey God and have all such miseries which you talk about.

See it in the marvelous chapter 26 of the Book of Levites (or Priests.) 14-33
This glorious chapter is now applicable to Muslims who have the Quran and yet they work contrary to it.

"14 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you:

I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache.
And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.

18 And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins,
19 and I will break the pride of your power,
and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit.

21 “Then if you walk contrary to me and will not listen to me, I will continue striking you, sevenfold for your sins.
22 And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted.

23 “And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant.
And if you gather within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I break your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven
and shall dole out your bread again by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

27 “But if in spite of this you will not listen to me, but walk contrary to me,
28 then I will walk contrary to you in fury, and I myself will discipline you sevenfold for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 And I will destroy your high places
and cut down your incense altars
and cast your dead bodies upon the dead bodies of your idols,
and my soul will abhor you.
31 And I will lay your cities waste and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your pleasing aromas.
32 And I myself will devastate the land, so that your enemies who settle in it shall be appalled at it.
33 And I will scatter you among the nations,
and I will unsheathe the sword after you,
and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.

So this is now the exact description of the condition and circumstances of Muslims in their many countries.

 

[AnnaG]

The contrary of your words is true.
People disobey God and have all such miseries which you talk about.

16 then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache.

Your god does that to babies and small children anyways.

 

[selfsame]

This is also pointed out to in the Quran 83: 7-9

{ 7. No, [do not diminish the measuring and the weighing to people; for] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly books a] that the libertines will have a 'hard living' [in the Next Life.] b

8. But can you imagine what this 'hard living' is? c

9. A scripture with number [: Book of Levites: chapter 26] d }
...............................................................

a Brought by the messengers (or apostles.)

b Similar to this in meaning is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 20: 124, which means:
(Whoso turns away from My admonition, then there will be for him a hard living [in the Afterlife.])

c This is a threatening for the libertine about God’s punishment in the Next Life.

d For it is mentioned in the Torah collection [the Old Testament], Book of Levites, chapter 26, the following about the threatening of libertines among the Children of Israel; God – be glorified – said:
"`14- But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands,
15- and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant,
16- then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it.
17- I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
"`18- If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.
19- I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze.
20- Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.”
Therefore, this is the meaning of the word ‘sijjin’ or the (hard living) in the aya 7 and 8.

Know then that the punishment is of many kinds, as are the guilty also many kinds: some of them are believers and some of them are disbelievers.
As for the sinful believer: God – be glorified – punishes him in the life of the World and forgives him in the Next Life; while the disbeliever and the associater: God punishes him in the Next Life, but gives him wealth in the life of the World.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 43: 33-34, which means:
(And lest that people should become one nation [: unanimously following the blasphemy],
We would have made, for those who blaspheme in [God] the Most Gracious, for their houses: roofs of silver, and elevators with which they go up [to the higher floors];
And for their houses doors [of Indian oak], and couches [of ivory] on which they recline.)

The interpretation was written by the pen of Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

===========================================================
A complement to the previous words:
It is narrated that Prophet Mohammed - salam to him - said:
"The life of the World is the Paradise of the disbeliever and the Hell of the believer;
while the Next Life is the Hell of the disbeleiver and the Paradise of the believer."

 

[Danbones]

god, through the auspices of a bunch of mostly non athiest enginerds and politards, has just pretty much wiped out the evil north pacific with a flaming tidalwave
"One third of the ocean shall..."
I wish some hoolie book would explain what the ocean and all the life in it just did to deserve that.
cause I sure wouldn't wanna do the same thing they did.

oh and GOD, while you are at it:
whats the halflife on hell again?
and whats up with Semantic (NORTON) antivirus co. reporting some 250 cases of the admittedly "created by the US and ISRAEL", hand transferable only, nuke plant destroying, STUXNET VIRUS there in japan at that time?

I thought it was the CEO of goldman sachs that was supposed to be doing Gods work

 

[selfsame]

May God make your bones hard with much calcium and phosphorus in ratio equilibrium. :lol:
Will you specify your question and make it more clear?

Anyhow, the disturbances of the land and sea have become so destructive because of the sins, evil and wrong-doing of man.
Refer to my post #9 on page 1 in this thread.


Moreover the heavens are about to tear up on account of their serious claim when they ascribed a son or daughters to God Most Gracious;

Quran 19: 90-91, which mean:
{90. Because of [their serious word]; the [gaseous] heavens are about to crack d, the earth split asunder [or break up to become meteorites] and the mountains fall down crushed [to be destroyed and dispersed.]e

91. For that they f have attributed a son [or daughters] to the Most Gracious.}
...........................................................

d i.e. are about to tear up because of their tremendous and serious words.

e These events will take place before Doomsday.

f These are: the associaters among the Arab who said: “the angels are the daughters of God”, while Christians say: “the Christ is the son of God.”

The writer in Arabic was Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

good people and their children are harmed every day.

Good according to your standards.
While they in fact are wrong-doers: they wrong each other and transgress on others' rights and so they are misguided to be atheists and disbelievers and so they are punished.

Then when the punishment comes, it will involve all including their children and including even the believers who are silent about the wrong-doing and the disbelief.

I am not talking about children's parents. I am talking about children. Why should they suffer because of adults' idiocy?

The children are involved in a way to punish their parents. Also their cattle and their land: the rain will stop coming down.

=======================================================

Some people here object saying: what's the fault or sin of children so that they are involved in the punishment which the adults deserve according to their atheism, idolatry, wrong-doing and disobedience to God's commandments!?

The answer is that: the children are involved in the affliction in order to sadden and punish the parents.

Moreover, when the generalized punishment settle on some disbelieving people [like the earthquake, hurricane, volcano, epidemic and others], it will involve all of them, including even the believers who are silent and do not do their duty in forbidding the wrong-doing.

Quran 77: 1-7, which mean:
{ 1. [I swear] by the [winds], loosed a [on the tribe of Aad, whose story you] know well! b

2. Which then blew violently in tempestuous gusts c,

3. And by that which scattered destruction [of everything they pass on!]d

4. Then separated them apart [one from another!] e

5. And [by such an event] they gave an admonition [to people!]

6. Whether you are [children] excused, or [adults] warned:

7. [If you believe not], such [punishment], with which you are promised, will inevitably inflict [you.]f }
...............................................................

a The meaning: If you do not believe in My Oneness, neither believe My messenger, I will loose on you some winds and hurricanes, like those winds, which will terminate you.

b i.e. the their story is known by the Arab.

c i.e. with high speed.

d Similar to this in meaning is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 51: 41-42, which means:
(And [there is a sign and a lesson] in [the story of the tribe of] Aad: when We sent against them the terminating wind, that spared nothing [the wind] came upon, without making it as crushed stubble.)
e It means: The wind separated man from his wife, son from his mother and brother from his sister; the wind lifted up man to several meters high then cast him on the ground so he would die.

f The meaning: Whether you are [children] excused, or [adults] warned, and if you do not believe, the chastisement with which We promised you will inevitably befall you [as a whole without exception.]

So the ‘excused’ are the children, of disbelievers, who have not become adults yet. While the ‘warned’ are the men and women warned by their messengers or apostles that the punishment will befall them if they do not believe.

The meaning: When the punishment or chastisement comes, it will involve all people, without sparing any child or any elderly man.

This is confirmed by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 8: 25, which means:
(And ward off a trial which shall surely not afflict in particular the wrong-doers among you.)
It means: It will include all people.

The writer in Arabic was the late interpreter of the Quran and Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Are you an "avenging angel" by any chance, Sesame?

 

[selfsame]

Are you an "avenging angel" by any chance, Sesame?

No, Cinnamon, I am only telling you, lest you hide your head under the sand like the ostrich, and shut your ears lest you hear.