Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’

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Slim Chance

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2009
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It is imperative that we stop the volcanic activity. If you love this planet you will support our efforts to curtail this terrible practice. These are certainly smoke signals from a distressed planet.


Hmmmm... Smoke signals from mother Earth herself, eh?... I hadn't counted on that possibility.

What are the chances that you and I can selectively interpret those signals as proof-positive that the public (and governments) MUST donate to our cause and buy any books endorsed by those "in the know"?

I'll get in touch with the brain-trust at the CRU and IPCC to get a marketing proposal on the aforementioned.
 

Slim Chance

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2009
475
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Are you two planning this con in a treehouse? Who's mom is bringing the cookies?

You don't understand.. We were too late on being the first to declare CO2 a toxin, so it only makes sense to get waaayyy ahead of the curve and work on legislating volcanic activity.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Pollutant. The EPA called it a pollutant.
OK, milk is a pollutant if released into the eco system.

I've actually seen farmers charged for it, lol. But the fines back then were lower then the charges levied by the Milk Marketing Board. Go figure.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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lol I just pointed out the difference between free thought and free will in another thread. I get here and see Ton pointing out the difference between toxin and pollutant. It must be an electric phenomenon and can't be a coincidence, hey beaver.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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OK, milk is a pollutant if released into the eco system.

I've actually seen farmers charged for it, lol. But the fines back then were lower then the charges levied by the Milk Marketing Board. Go figure.

It can kill the fish.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Catching bull frogs... :D
:lol: Actually, I was watching beautiful trout float along the stream, I was just trying to fly fish for.

I was kind of torn when I approached the farmer about it.

He gets fined by the MMB, if he has to much milk, but he can't leave it in the cows, and he has to dump it somewhere.

He's been doing it for years. But the trout stocks haven't really been severely impacted.

He got busted anyways, another angler called the cops.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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That is tough. The marketing board should have some kind of mechanism for that. The farmer could have the same herd size and get more production through genetic gains but then the farm has to pay I assume to get rid of it. That's where the interaction between people and environment gets cloudy. No pun intended.
 

Extrafire

Council Member
Mar 31, 2005
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Prince George, BC
Not in any way similar to exponentially...how do you figure that?

This is a logarithmic growth curve:

This is an exponential growth curve:


What similarities do you see?
Both are exponential curves, one being the inverse of the other.:roll:
 

Extrafire

Council Member
Mar 31, 2005
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Prince George, BC
What a load of nonsense, I've seen ten year old trees in my yard hammered by the beetle. The pine has always been there, the only major change has been lack of very cold winters to hit the beetle when they're most vulnerable, when they're hibernating.

We also don't get the early and late freezes to catch the beetle when they're either going into or coming out of hiberbation.

So then why didn't the beetles kill off the pine forests in the south centuries (or millenia) ago? If cold was the major control as you contend that would have happened. (Where is your yard, by the way?)

The beetles will hit young trees when they're in massive numbers such as now. Normally they're primarily attracted to the older trees that can't repell them as the young ones can, but when attacked in sufficient numbers the young ones succumb too.
 

Extrafire

Council Member
Mar 31, 2005
1,300
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Prince George, BC
Some simple facts for those of you who don't seem get the pine beetle infestation- climate change link.

- The beetle don't just feed on the pine, they spend most of their lifecycle under the pine bark. They depend on the pine for shelter to reproduce and survive harsh winter conditions.
Mostly true. They only leave the tree to mate and fly to infest new trees.

- Mature pine with thicker bark give greater protection to the pine beetle over the winter. Many of the stands that the beetle have infested in the last decade simply would not have supported their needs just a couple of decades ago. An early winter or late spring freeze would have caught the beetles without their glycol protection and intense cold winter weather that can freeze trees to their core would have culled off beetle populations in stands of small wood.
Nope. Mature Yellow Pine (ponderosa) have thicker bark than immature as well as very old and young White Pine, but there's little difference between the thickness in old and young bark in Lodgepole Pine in which this infestation started. Every winter the pines up here freeze several inches into the wood, more than enough to freeze the bark, obviously. The beetles aren't there, they survive by retreating to the base of the tree for the winter where they are covered with insulating snow that protects them from the worst of the cold. Often the ground under the snow doesn't freeze at all, even in -40. (And your scenario still hasn't explained why the beetles didn't long ago kill off all the pine n the south.)

- Shorter milder winters mean that more beetles from each years breeding cycle survive the cold to fly off and infest more pine. The beetle are also able to overwinter in stands that traditionally have been denied them.
That at least is partly true. Warmer winters will allow more to survive. However there are no stands that have traditionally been denied them.

It's not as if millions of pine have suddenly popped into existance to give the pine beetle in the west a new source of nutrition. What has happened is that climate change has upset the natural balance of several millenia and removed one of the crucial controls on the pine beetles' expansion in both numbers and territory.
It's not as if this infestation is something new. We've been fighting it off for decades, going back to the time when global coolling was all the rage. These outbreaks have been popping up everywhere throughout the province and more and more frequently. The only reason it didn't take off before is we've managed to stop, or at least hold them. This situation of vulnerable older trees has been building up for decades as millions of trees aged. Our biggest contribution to that is the fact that we've been fighting forest fires for 100 years with some success, thereby upsetting the natural cycle of life and death in the forests.

If the pine beetle outbreak in the west isn't about CLIMATE CHANGE then I don't know what is.
Apparently you don't know what is.
 

Extrafire

Council Member
Mar 31, 2005
1,300
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Prince George, BC
I decided to consult an expert on the subject of the massive pine beetle outbreak in the west(I asked my sister who's worked in the field for several decades, her husband is also a forest-engineer, so is our dad, my brother has also been a forester with BC Forests for more than two decades, so I've heard more on this subject than I ever wanted to.)
Well how about that! For your information I have spent more than 44 years working in the forest industry of BC, first for the BC Forest Service and later in industry. I do know what I'm talking about here.

First off the pine beetle is indigenous to BC, it wasn't introduced and it didn't move up from the south. Quite possibly the beetle has been here as long as the pine.
Scientists say 60 million years.

Some of the first outbreaks were noticed in Manning park in the south of the province as early as the 1950s. They were a result of a combination of fire suppression, conservation and warmer climatic conditions creating a beneficial environment for the beetles' spread.

The major historical control on beetle populations inthe west has been climatic, not food supply. They simply would not have been able to survive 25 years ago in many of the stands they have successfully infested in the last two decades.
Nonsense. Manning Park never ever gets as cold as it does even now up in Tweedsmuir where the current infestation began, never did, never will, so if cold is the control, the pine in Manning Park would have been wiped out long before the park was established. Think man! Besides which large outbreaks were known to occur in the northern half of the province long before the '50's.

Basically what it comes down and what I've been saying all along, until the climate changed the major control on the beetle population in the west was climatic- longer colder winters that kept the beetle in a natural equilibrium with the pine forests. They were pretty much restricted to mature pine stands and even there their numbers were kept in check.
Well the last sentence is true at least. The real difference is there was so much more mature pine the last few decades that it was just a matter of time until an unstoppable outbreak occured. By the way, do you know at what age a lodgepole pine is considered mature? 80 years. It doesn't take many decades for an immature forest to become mature and then overmature when the lifespan of the tree is relatively short.

Human activity- fire suppression and conservation- has contributed to the vast outbreak of pine beetle in the west, but the primary cause, is the changing climate which has allowed the beetle to utilize most of the food and territory available, not just the mature stands.
Nope, wrong again. The reason the beetle goes after mature trees is because the young ones can defend themselves. When the beetle bores into them, their sap flow pushes the beetle out. But like humans, when a tree gets old its metabolism slows down, and the older the tree, the less sap flow there is and the more vulnerable is the tree to beetles. It's only when the beetles reach overwhelming numbers due to the large number of overmature trees available that they young trees succumb. And even then, those under 25 years will mostly survive an attack. You can drive through the forests around here and see all the clearcut blocks that have been planted to pine are green oasies in the middle of the dead mature forest.

Once again, until the climatic controls were removed due to CLIMATE CHANGE, most of the vast stands of pine in the west were inaccessable to the pine beetle.
You keep saying that over and over. What do you figure, you say it often enough it will become true?

In addition to being a flashing red light the pine beetle outbreak in BC is a screaming siren to anyone who cares to listen.

I'm sure that 10 or 20 years from now some people are going to be claiming it's the lack of seals that has resulted in the disappearance the polar bear, such thinking is refered to as "not being able to see the forest for the trees" IIRC... most of the trees in this case being standing red or grey(dead).
Since the polar bear has been in a population explosion for the last 50 years or so it's unlikely they'll disappear in 20 years.
 
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