I have no problem grading students, but a failing grade is enough for negative consequences. They need action plans to help boost their understanding and confidence, not detention and punishment.
Giving Detention for Bad Grades
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
I asked the retired teacher/principal guy who lives here too 
about this & mentioned the teacher left her alone writing lines, called it 'detention' and this:
Big groan preceded, "It's almost the end of September and a teacher doesn't know they've got a good student trying to cope with a difficulty in something as easy to spot as spelling?!! And s/he punishes the kid?! That's not good teaching. Can Mum or Dad step in? Or else hurt feelings and low self-esteem from one teacher can start causing other problems. Not good. Hmph!"
I agree. Our youngest, very bright daughter was doing great at everything until she encountered a new math teacher in grade six who did not seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree. Was kind of rough. Our daughter was very shy & nervous. She started faltering in math. Dad helped her along with the math, but she'd fall apart in class anyway. I talked to him, he didn't get it until she'd decided she was hopeless at math - it stuck with her through Jr High. Not good. But Jr High teachers were good, worked with her & she was ok enough, just! as far math went, to get into the Int. Bacc. programme in Sr. High.
All in our opinions stuff. Go with your instincts, Mum, you can trust those 'cos you know your daughter as yourself. Lots of woo-hoo's & hugs work magic!
about this & mentioned the teacher left her alone writing lines, called it 'detention' and this:Big groan preceded, "It's almost the end of September and a teacher doesn't know they've got a good student trying to cope with a difficulty in something as easy to spot as spelling?!! And s/he punishes the kid?! That's not good teaching. Can Mum or Dad step in? Or else hurt feelings and low self-esteem from one teacher can start causing other problems. Not good. Hmph!"
I agree. Our youngest, very bright daughter was doing great at everything until she encountered a new math teacher in grade six who did not seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree. Was kind of rough. Our daughter was very shy & nervous. She started faltering in math. Dad helped her along with the math, but she'd fall apart in class anyway. I talked to him, he didn't get it until she'd decided she was hopeless at math - it stuck with her through Jr High. Not good. But Jr High teachers were good, worked with her & she was ok enough, just! as far math went, to get into the Int. Bacc. programme in Sr. High.
All in our opinions stuff. Go with your instincts, Mum, you can trust those 'cos you know your daughter as yourself. Lots of woo-hoo's & hugs work magic!
Assessment and evaluation is done to determine whether the person learning the material learned some of it, or all of it. Provincial exams, given in most provinces at grades 3, 6, 9, and 12 are given, in part, to assess whether schools and teachers are meeting provincial standards. Teachers have a rubric, which is used to assess completed work. The rubric is in place to ensure that all students are assessed equally.
I bet your daughter knows how to spell the words correctly after practicing through recess. Is that a bad thing?
If she didn't know how to spell them because she hadn't bothered to study, then yes, one detention might fix the issue. But since a week of studying the words still only got her 60%, the detention is useless from a learning aspect for her.
I think your philosophy is widely practiced throughout Canadian schools. There is a no fail policy until high school. Students are passed regardless of whether they have learned anything, and many students make it to grade 10 without learning basic concepts. They are then shuffled into "slow" classes in high school, and their futures are, for the most part, written in stone. I wish that a couple of my children had been kept in during recess to improve their skills, but instead they were passed along. I have a daughter who had grades in the 70% range until the last half of grade 9, at which point she came home with a report card that had no marks. I called the school to find out what happened. I was told that my daughter had below 30% in most subjects, and that any grade below 30% was not recorded. This was a huge shock. I wanted to know why I was not told sooner. I sat down with my daughter and we started back tracking with her learning, as I wanted to know when she stopped learning. We went back to grade 4 concepts, and that is where she got lost. The junior high school recommended her for vocational school, and she was told that she should prepare for a career in something like hair dressing. I disagreed. We sent her to a Swiss boarding school with a teacher/student ratio of 1/9. Over the course of 3 years, she caught up, and completed partial IB ... during high school she was prom queen, awarded most improved student, and was the grade 12 chemistry tutor. She went to University and completed a commerce degree. I wish that one of her teachers ... any one of them ... had done something sooner. Instead, they all did nothing, for years, leading me to believe everything was fine ... setting her up for failure. It may seem harsh, or unfair, to ensure children learn rather than play during recess, but in the big picture, it's a good thing ... the child benifits. Failing a child informs the parent that extra help is needed. Also a good thing. After my experience with my daughter, my son has the mandatory "privilege" of regularly attending summer school because I don't trust that the teachers will tell me if he's failing.
I would rather see a positive connotation given to the areas in which most (not all but many) students have poor grades.
Kids can't win the whole spectrum of interests displayed in schools having to cover many subjects - and there often is one which becomes the focus of negativity - especially when associated with "detention or time out"
punishment rather than something more personal and positive like "special focus" or "discussion" or "problem solution".....
There is nothing more scapegoating than a student singled out by a teacher for mistakes made - and the new nickname of "dumb" becomes attached.
Find the weaknesses in the curriculum your child is studying and work with the child to solution and if you have no time because of working or other duties, get outside help after school or Saturday to open the door
to understanding. The more fear of a tough topic of study, the more difficulty in learning it - catch it
right up front and take extra time to make it a challenge (like winning a soccer game).... even losing a soccer game isn't the end of the world but being "dumb" seems like it.
Teachers don't have time to know your child - you do - teachers can't decide their future - you do.
Kids can't win the whole spectrum of interests displayed in schools having to cover many subjects - and there often is one which becomes the focus of negativity - especially when associated with "detention or time out"
punishment rather than something more personal and positive like "special focus" or "discussion" or "problem solution".....
There is nothing more scapegoating than a student singled out by a teacher for mistakes made - and the new nickname of "dumb" becomes attached.
Find the weaknesses in the curriculum your child is studying and work with the child to solution and if you have no time because of working or other duties, get outside help after school or Saturday to open the door
to understanding. The more fear of a tough topic of study, the more difficulty in learning it - catch it
right up front and take extra time to make it a challenge (like winning a soccer game).... even losing a soccer game isn't the end of the world but being "dumb" seems like it.
Teachers don't have time to know your child - you do - teachers can't decide their future - you do.
Somehow I feel you missed the actual point of Kreskin's post, as he never said anything about a no fail policy, or not grading kids.
Perhaps I've missed the point completely, but my point is that if a teacher is willing to identify a child with a weakness in their learning, and to do something about it, parents should be thankful ... the child may miss a recess or two, but at least the parents aren't forking over $40k a year to fix the problem years later.
What I'm taking from your post is that you didn't see nearly enough punitive actions for yuor kids, so you think all kids need more. Well, I have to disagree. What might have rescued your daughter's education and saved you great expense, might be what tanks someone else's. This is my issue with the cookie cutter approach.
Ya know, to further dissect this, I don't think we entirely disagree, but we do disagree about the method.... if my kid were missing recess so that the teacher would pay her attention and figure out how she DOES learn to spell, rather than carry on with the same tactic that didn't work before, I'd be thrilled. But, making them sit through recess alone to repeat what they've done all week without it working, is just yet another 'ignore'. It's not helping her grasp the material, it's not figuring out where her trouble is stemming from. If she really goes through a year of being put in detention every week for being bad at spelling (which she won't, of course, because I'm involved but other kids very well might), does that really improve the quality of her education, rather than the teacher actually doing some work?
Ya know, to further dissect this, I don't think we entirely disagree, but we do disagree about the method.... if my kid were missing recess so that the teacher would pay her attention and figure out how she DOES learn to spell, rather than carry on with the same tactic that didn't work before, I'd be thrilled. But, making them sit through recess alone to repeat what they've done all week without it working, is just yet another 'ignore'. It's not helping her grasp the material, it's not figuring out where her trouble is stemming from. If she really goes through a year of being put in detention every week for being bad at spelling (which she won't, of course, because I'm involved but other kids very well might), does that really improve the quality of her education, rather than the teacher actually doing some work?
Both of my daughters have classmates that have failed, if I added up the various kids I know, I'd find ones who failed all grades from K to 8.
But maybe that's 'cause we're in backwards NB, and we don't understand the highfalutin' no-fail system.
Karrie, if you don't mind my asking... I'm assuming your daughter has no difficulties with reading skills? (No, not thinking dyslexia or anything like that, just a coping technique that may help, is all.)
she has struggled mainly with her spelling. She definitely not exceeding expectations in reading though. If you have any suggestions, shoot. I won't turn my nose up at any new ideas when the current route is obviousy not working well.
Karrie
As I have no idea what teachers' necessaries are within their peer review or unions or whatever governments their tenure and job security, does it impact their personal reputation if a large majority of their students are not succeeding as expected?
Punitive measures such as described in this topic don't increase learning skills. If at all they decrease the positive curiosity a child has to learn to overcome something new.
Sorry about the triple post above - I tried to correct my typos and fell into a new forum issue -
As I have no idea what teachers' necessaries are within their peer review or unions or whatever governments their tenure and job security, does it impact their personal reputation if a large majority of their students are not succeeding as expected?
Punitive measures such as described in this topic don't increase learning skills. If at all they decrease the positive curiosity a child has to learn to overcome something new.
Sorry about the triple post above - I tried to correct my typos and fell into a new forum issue -
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I don't know how it all works either Curio. They all seem terrified of 'bad grades', yet teachers can get away with a horrid amount of abuse of students without getting fired. One teacher at my kids' school screams her classes into tears on a regular basis, and has even lost it to the point of kicking students, without getting fired. So I find myself baffled by what does and doesn't matter in the minds of the teachers and school boards.
I'm surprised. Genuinely surprised. The problems you're describing sound more like what we have experienced in the public system rather than the Catholic. The teacher that kicked the child should have been reported to Child services along with the administration. Your daughters teacher needs a good talking to and maybe a refresher course in teaching techniques. A DT for a low mark on a spelling test is over the top. IMNSHO
All IMHO, YMMV, & from my own experience in helping daughters' friends as well as managing & working with young adults & teens in Fed. job training programs - so obviously feel free to discard the suggestion as you know your daughter best:
Learning to spell goes hand-in-hand with learning to read, reading skills being paramount IMHO. As you read you unconsciously absorb words - not just the letters but the shapes and the correct contexts. That's really how we all learn to write/spell, by reading.
Seeing as your daughter, while not excelling at reading you say, has not experienced criticism of her reading skills by a teacher so is 'wide open' to feeling good about reading & that it would be helping her with spelling without her realizing it (no criticism or talk of 'studying' involved); I'd suggest using reading as the tool to helping her with the spelling difficulties.
I'd suggest:
Tell the teacher involved that the rule for your daughter is if she's to be kept back in class ("detention" is not to be used), she's to be given suitable books to read with an encouraging word or two and a smile - no spelling drills, no way.
As you & everyone are overwhelmed with renovations & will be for a while: Ask the teacher of the next grade or two up if they have a shy, kind, good reader who needs a self-esteem boost that they would recommend as a 'friend/helper' for your daughter - that the two read together during recess or lunch break a couple of times a week - win win!
This is where your Grandmother could really help (& it would make her feel genuinely needed), tell her your daughter needs to start reading more but needs someone to read along with her that she feels cuddly & confident with.
If you think reading is worth a shot, you or Dad take her to the library that has the best children's section & turn her loose with a basket - let her make her own choices. Comics, magazines included if she wants them - they have words & pictures to associate the words with. (I still have our daughters' Asterix collection - always remember the youngest at around five earnestly telling my astonished friend about how the mean Romans invaded Gaul "but it's called France now 'cos Asterix and Obelix and Dogmatix beat up the Romans." lol)
Above all, which I'm sure you know anyway :smile:, don't let anyone - emphasize this to her teacher - associate the fun of reading with her spelling. You know what smart, sharp little cookies they are.
That'll turn reading into a punishment of sorts - the last thing you want obviously. Reading is fun, a warm fuzzy, a treat, a reward, all good things. Hopefully it will help turn worrying, scary words into good things that one reads & enjoys & somehow, magically begins to learn to spell them. Cool!Hope that's useful & of some interest.