Gay Rights And The Bible

[MHz]

Time for a new word .... you're both insufferable.

Then why did reading their combined posts make it feel quite like the way I was when I last suffered? A reply to your posts is being prepared, ....the more stupid one seems to have jumped ahead of yours. In terms of judging Scripture Dex's site was in error twice in just two examples, the whole site should be trashed, that rule certainly applies to all the Holy Bible.
Wisdom in Scripture comes a drop at a time.

Isa:28:9:
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa:28:10:
For precept must be upon precept,
precept upon precept;
line upon line,
line upon line;
here a little,
and there a little:

Being a believer isn't a deciding factor right now, the path is far from ended.

 

[MHz]

I think when you start quoting the Bible you really have to think who the author was and I'll bet it was hundreds of people, shepherds, carpenters, fisherman, lawyers, politicians (biggest liars going) and who know when they made their notes?- at the local bar after a tough day in the fields with 14 grog under their belts?

So then you will have no complaints if it doesn't work out that way? Right???
Luckily for you judgment is based on a somewhat higher structure, Obiedences comes after a show of power, not before, so far it is only written words that you are responding to, the 'in your face part' is much more intense.[

 

[AnnaG]

Then why did reading their combined posts make it feel quite like the way I was when I last suffered?

I was teasing them. Guess you missed the little smilie.

A reply to your posts is being prepared, ....the more stupid one seems to have jumped ahead of yours. In terms of judging Scripture Dex's site was in error twice in just two examples, the whole site should be trashed, that rule certainly applies to all the Holy Bible.

Perhaps it only should be amended. An author hates to trash an entire work just because of two errors. The rule of trashing the entire thing should apply to the Bible? Sorry, I am sure you don't mean that to sound like it did.

Wisdom in Scripture comes a drop at a time.

Perhaps, but the Tao Te Ching makes more sense and doesn't make outrageous claims or conflict with itself.

Isa:28:9:
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa:28:10:
For precept must be upon precept,
precept upon precept;
line upon line,
line upon line;
here a little,
and there a little:

... and read between the lines for the unsaid, the hinted at, the ambiguous and vague, etc. lol

Being a believer isn't a deciding factor right now, the path is far from ended.

Happy to hear that.

 

[CDNBear]

So then you will have no complaints if it doesn't work out that way? Right???
Luckily for you judgment is based on a somewhat higher structure, Obiedences comes after a show of power, not before, so far it is only written words that you are responding to, the 'in your face part' is much more intense.[

And ever so odd, we haven't seen anything in modern times.

Hmmm...

 

[captain morgan]

And the others? I do not doubt you can put your own spin on those, too. lol

That's the beauty in being able to apply my individual perspective thousands of years after the fact.. The original 'author' isn't around to defnd themselves.. Know what I mean? - Sure you do, you rely heavily on it.

Apparently it's big time saturday night for you, also. So what?
NP, I can try not to pity you, but I usually am unsuccessful in the attempts. I am a humanitarian.

I never said I do this for fun... You, on the other hand....

Hey, at least I offered evidence. What do people get from you but mere opinion. That's pretty sad. 1 poor little opinion in a planet full of them.

Ohhh.. What compelling evidence was that? All I've read from you is your assertions of how you are right and everyone else that disagrees is wrong. Mind you, I see that you hold your opinion in very high esteem.

You're your own biggest fan?

(note: I don't care)

Yeah, sure.... That's why you specifically made the point, eh?

 

[AnnaG]

That's the beauty in being able to apply my individual perspective thousands of years after the fact.. The original 'author' isn't around to defnd themselves.. Know what I mean? - Sure you do, you rely heavily on it.Sorry, but I relied on people who have researched the history of those times. I am an anthropologist, after all. I just don't read something said a long time ago and apply my own perspective. I have read other perspectives. That's the nice thing about fields of study. I could dig up my resources on those particular people I mentioned and supply the research, but I doubt it would do any good as it would weem the only opinion 7you value is your own, however mistaken it is.

I never said I do this for fun... You, on the other hand....

Yup. I found a new toy and it's been raining for a few days.

Ohhh.. What compelling evidence was that? All I've read from you is your assertions of how you are right and everyone else that disagrees is wrong. Mind you, I see that you hold your opinion in very high esteem.

You're your own biggest fan?

Sorry, I do supply other than my own info. Unlike you. It is you, in fact, in love with your own opinion. Otherwise you would find and post evidence from other sources.

Yeah, sure.... That's why you specifically made the point, eh?

Assuming again? tsk tsk

 

[captain morgan]

An anthropologist that bases the meaning of ancient texts on contemporary interpretations exclusively.

Good luck in your calling.

 

[MHz]

That still doesn't explain why the thing wasn't written more clearly to begin with. My point is that the "Golden Rule explains everything the Bible tries to (and fails at often) in one simple easy-to-understand line. I was being generous in saying it could be boiled down to a 2 page pamphlet.
The fact that most of the old gods aren't spoken of past mythological studies. This leads to the theory that they never existed in the first place, let alone were all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, and controlled all that was in their mandate (such as Thor, God of Thunder, EG).
That a lot of claims have resulted in various faiths, including Christianity take a couple steps back so they could reconcile and rationalize when science has made a monkey out of them.
What were you expecting of me in asking for evidence? That I offer the same sort of argument as the faithful and say there aren't any gods just cuz?

So it must be God's fault that Scripture is confusing to you? What other talents of this world have also escaped you? Welder, Writer,..

Or a pile of them that contradict others. Thanks, but as an atheist, the only interest I have in what the Bible claims is usually just passing curiosity. It's been said that statistics can prove anything you want them to prove, which is entirely an old-wives tale if the statistics are accurate and properly researched. But the Bible seems to be able to give reasons against this or that while offering reasons for the same this or that. I cannot see why anyone would take it seriously on a rational basis.

How about that you view it as a"passing curosity"? Jack of all trades master of none. The rest of the world does not revolve around what or what doesn't interest you. Other than that, why are you even on this thread or any others that have the same general theme...God?

The fact that most of the old gods aren't spoken of past mythological studies. This leads to the theory that they never existed in the first place, let alone were all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, and controlled all that was in their mandate (such as Thor, God of Thunder, EG).
That a lot of claims have resulted in various faiths, including Christianity take a couple steps back so they could reconcile and rationalize when science has made a monkey out of them.
What were you expecting of me in asking for evidence? That I offer the same sort of argument as the faithful and say there aren't any gods just cuz?

Why would anybody invent somebody named God at all, especially ones that could really kick-(human)ass if they wanted too, let alone if their is one true God. All the others could easily fit in with the fallen angels before Noah's flood.

Thanks, but as an atheist, the only interest I have in what the Bible claims is usually just passing curiosity. It's been said that statistics can prove anything you want them to prove, which is entirely an old-wives tale if the statistics are accurate and properly researched. But the Bible seems to be able to give reasons against this or that while offering reasons for the same this or that. I cannot see why anyone would take it seriously on a rational basis.

Because what seems like a comtradiction has a verse somewhere that determines why something appears 'out of whack'. There is no hope of understanding if you can't see GE:1 as being for the flesh of man and his journey with God compared to Ge:2 as being the spiritual journey of man with God. You can keep reading but it will be utter confusion, just let it play out just outside yourself. It's almost the same thing. In this case ignorance is bliss.

It's obvious that Christians aren't under the same "conditions" as reasoning people.

That's right, you do not have to fear if your Government or your Doctors or your Lawyers are telling you the truth. They said they are so they must be. Unfortunately for me I have to go through this with each and every single verse.
1Th:5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Not a good plan to apply that standard to influences outside of Scripture.

So the claims indicate, anyway. But, apparently Hades, Er, and these ones: Gods of the Afterlife among others can, also. lol
Well, last I heard there was. Does the Bible not say the reward for sin is death? That sounds to me like a reaction. At least according to your interpretations.
Yeah, there are books with predictions in abundance. *shrugs*

Apparently you missed the verse that has Fallen Angels being bound when they are in the pit, along with this one.
The punishment for sin is death, since Adam and Eve each new child was destined for the grave before they were ever old enough to sin.
Luckily as 'off-beat' as His prophecies are at least we can be sure who is doing what when they come to pass, and if somebody tries to repent any of them, big fat fake.

Jer:4:28:
For this shall the earth mourn,
and the heavens above be black:
because I have spoken it,
I have purposed it,
and will not repent,
neither will I turn back from it.

M't:10:28:
And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[MHz]

And ever so odd, we haven't seen anything in modern times.

Hmmm...

Not odd at all, once the last page of the last book was written down there was to be no other signs from God that would be 'provable'. It doesn't matter to Him how many believe those words , it only matters that He had them written down.
Hard to return if you are doing things before the actual time to return and start 'doing things'. If I am away from my house the vacuuming doesn't get done until I return and do it, vastly different scenarios but the concept is still the same..

 

[JLM]

So then you will have no complaints if it doesn't work out that way? Right???
Luckily for you judgment is based on a somewhat higher structure, Obiedences comes after a show of power, not before, so far it is only written words that you are responding to, the 'in your face part' is much more intense.[

I haven't reached the stage yet where I would get philisophical about it. Reading is only the first step, before one can analyze, one has the know a little about the author, his/her intent, state of mind, and expertise on the subject, as with any written instruction you receive. Once that's clear, then we can on to determine the validity of it.

 

[MHz]

I haven't reached the stage yet where I would get philisophical about it. Reading is only the first step, before one can analyze, one has the know a little about the author, his/her intent, state of mind, and expertise on the subject, as with any written instruction you receive. Once that's clear, then we can on to determine the validity of it.

The bio of the author of a repair manual for a '57 Stud is not very important in the long run. Face facts, if the book doesn't hold your attention maybe you are part of Phase II.

 

[In Between Man]

I cannot tolerate intolerance.

Thank you so much for making this statement because it shows exactly how confounding and double-dealing your reasoning is.

All you have to do is label someone under your no doubt, redefinition of "intolerant", and you have justification for your own intolerance.

That's very assuming and upsetting.

 

[In Between Man]

Yes it is hypocritical. Fraudulent? I disagree.
But you are assuming that I don't tolerate Christians or Christianity. You're wrong. My mother is Irish Catholic (I doubt you can find anyone more devoted than an Irish Catholic) and I love her deeply. We have friends who are JWs. They visit us and we visit them. I guess we aren't very tolerant.

Great, sounds good to me! Just remember to try to tolerate the viewpoint as much as you can;-). This way, as we debate out viewpts get stronger cuz we test 'em! Oh, and btw, Jay Dubbs aren't Christians. Its a dangerous RELIGIOUS cult. I'm sure your friends are great people though.:smile:

How come you keep making assumptions about me? Just because I state my reasons and evidence why I don't believe in your stuff does NOT mean I don't tolerate it. Don't be silly.

Silliness kept in line. Check.

 

[AnnaG]

So then you will have no complaints if it doesn't work out that way? Right???
Luckily for you judgment is based on a somewhat higher structure, Obiedences comes after a show of power, not before, so far it is only written words that you are responding to, the 'in your face part' is much more intense.[

Nuts. My husband is of the opinion that religious people have the tendency to assume humans are evil until trained not to be. My sister couldn't help people enough. I love helping people. My daughters love helping people. They all were like that from day one. And we did our best to help them develop that trait further. So I think my husband is right about that tendency in religious people. Obedience does not have to be given home by some tyrant.

 

[AnnaG]

An anthropologist that bases the meaning of ancient texts on contemporary interpretations exclusively.

Good luck in your calling.

More assumptions. lmao You're a hoot.
Any evidence to contradict what I posted? Please show me. Oh, I am sorry, I was mistaking you for someone that can actually supply more than opinion.

 

[JLM]

The bio of the author of a repair manual for a '57 Stud is not very important in the long run. Face facts, if the book doesn't hold your attention maybe you are part of Phase II.

That stud would now be 52 years old which is pretty old for a stud, for optimum outcoming of breeding I think you would look for a younger stud and as with most studs they don't need a manual- they probably got a pretty good idea what to do.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The reason I post the verses that I do is that is what led me to believe God meant something is going to happen...

I think you post the verses you do because you believe they, or at least your interpretations of them, are true. That has to come before can believe god's trying to tell you something with them. I long ago rejected your basic premise, that there's a god with something he wants us to know, so none of your arguments based on scripture mean anything to me. I think they're simply wrong, they're based on false assumptions and beliefs.

So now it's all religion not just the Holy Bible, does Atill the Hun's become unacceptable to you also?

It's always been "all religion," and I think I've been pretty clear about that from the beginning: religious belief in my view is a delusion. I presume you mean Attila the Hun there; does his what become unacceptable to me? His bible? His religion? It's always been yes to both, I have no use for any holy book as a holy book, though it might have other merits, as the Bible certainly does.

BTW I hope all those Holidays (RCC mandated) are still going well (as long as you don't bring up the subject of God up in front of Dex) Give them the verse that says you don't have to accept their religious HOLYdays as being your own. Then when they want your help in moving heavy furnature you can always claim it is a holy day for you. I stack mine up so I get two weeks worth at once, too bad most of it is 'spend' apologizing for the pause. The old JW Aboriginal lady showed up one day with a new friend, he mentioned that I had not been 'visited' in awhile and wondered out loud why I had left Christ. The old lady understood my answer and he said "Oh." I highlighted a few comments in their own publication and brought them up the next time they returned I brought them up and I'm still waiting for a return...much like some of the questions I have asked you in the past. Not that I'm banking on any sort of answer.

I have no idea what most of that paragraph's about, or how it's relevant to anything that precedes it. Beats me how moving furniture and stacking up two weeks worth of something (furniture?) has anything to do with anything. As for the questions you've wanted me to answer in times past, we've been over that before as well and I don't propose to deal with it again. You can, however, take it as given that on any question you think I should have answered but didn't, or didn't answer to your satisfaction, that I think whatever point you were trying to make with it is wrong.

 

[captain morgan]

More assumptions. lmao You're a hoot.
Any evidence to contradict what I posted? Please show me. Oh, I am sorry, I was mistaking you for someone that can actually supply more than opinion.

Evidence?.. Why, you are my evidence Anna. To be honest, as an anthropologist, I would have expected you to form arguments based on historical context relative to the language(s) in which the text was written all of which would have been relative to the cultural inputs that would be relevant.

Again, you employ your contemporary interpretation to an ancient text and pretend that it is reality over all times and cultures... So, tell me again that yours is based on 'fact'.

 

[Cliffy]

Thank you so much for making this statement because it shows exactly how confounding and double-dealing your reasoning is.

All you have to do is label someone under your no doubt, redefinition of "intolerant", and you have justification for your own intolerance.

That's very assuming and upsetting.

It's a joke! My goodness you are being supercilious!

 

[AnnaG]

So it must be God's fault that Scripture is confusing to you? What other talents of this world have also escaped you? Welder, Writer,..

Well, your god is all-powerful and made everything didn't he? Neat thing about the religious is that if something goes right, they can blame gods. If something goes wrong, it must also be gods will. It's been my observation that I am not the only one that has problems understanding that book of obscureness, inaccuracies, and sometime outrageous fertilizer.

How about that you view it as a"passing curosity"?

How about it?

Jack of all trades master of none.

Sorry, I do have a field of study. It involves past and present cultures.

The rest of the world does not revolve around what or what doesn't interest you.

That's a too bad. It might be more fun otherwise.

Other than that, why are you even on this thread or any others that have the same general theme...God?

I am having fun. Aren't you?

Why would anybody invent somebody named God at all, especially ones that could really kick-(human)ass if they wanted too, let alone if their is one true God. All the others could easily fit in with the fallen angels before Noah's flood.

People invented gods in an attempt to understand what they could not understand and hence, perhaps quench some of their fears about stuff they had no comprehension about. Maybe you should read something other than the Bible of holes. Like a little Joseph Campbell about mythology, EG.

Because what seems like a comtradiction has a verse somewhere that determines why something appears 'out of whack'. There is no hope of understanding if you can't see

I see. So a writer says something, another contradicts him a few books later, and then more books later, some other writer posts a reconciliation between the two? Yeah, that should clarify things for someone ..........that doesn't mind hopping back and forth, into one book, out, and into another book and zig-zagging here, hither, and yon through the tome. lol

GE:1 as being for the flesh of man and his journey with God compared to Ge:2 as being the spiritual journey of man with God. You can keep reading but it will be utter confusion, just let it play out just outside yourself. It's almost the same thing. In this case ignorance is bliss.

Yep. Ignorance is bliss, atheists are evil, etc. I heard it before. As I said, the Tao Te Ching is a better read and doesn't need all the spectacular and unbelievable nonsense to be a better read.

That's right, you do not have to fear if your Government or your Doctors or your Lawyers are telling you the truth. They said they are so they must be. Unfortunately for me I have to go through this with each and every single verse.
1Th:5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Not a good plan to apply that standard to influences outside of Scripture.

That's why people research things. Believe me, I checked out my doctor before I became her patient. Same for my dentist and lawyer. Some things I take for granted, like people in some field of study or other, EG, that have had good peer reviews. But one can be gullible, sceptical, or cynical. The gullible will believe regardless of evidence (or lack of it), the sceptical will disbelieve until the evidence shows different, but the cynic won't believe it in spite of the evidence they are wrong.

Apparently you missed the verse that has Fallen Angels being bound when they are in the pit, along with this one.

Probably, I skipped over it, yes.

The punishment for sin is death, since Adam and Eve each new child was destined for the grave before they were ever old enough to sin.

That's very loving of the creature in control, right. It's nonsense, MHz. Why would a loving creature invent things, allow them to go bad, then torment them for being bad when it could have prevented the entire issue in the first place. It's inane at best, insane at worst.
Luckily as 'off-beat' as His prophecies are at least we can be sure who is doing what when they come to pass, and if somebody tries to repent any of them, big fat fake.

Jer:4:28:
For this shall the earth mourn,
and the heavens above be black:
because I have spoken it,
I have purposed it,
and will not repent,
neither will I turn back from it.

M't:10:28:
And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/quote]Aaaahh, the tyrant introducing the concept of fear. Lovely. Fear me, worship me, adore me or I will cook your goose.