From Bad to Worse..

[Ocean Breeze]

It just goes on and on:

Another three Secret Service agents will be leaving the agency as part of the investigation into the prostitution scandal, CBS News has learened. This makes a total of six agents and supervisers leaving.

source: CBS breaking news mailing.

Out of all this erupts one clear message: the US cannot with a straight face preach "moral" or "ethical" standards.( in fact it is the only nation that is prone to such preachings) OTOH.........perhaps what we are seeing is the NEW "moral and ethical" standard .... which in reality , is no different from the wonder daze of Roman Imperialism......or any other empire that was drunk (over dosed ) on power. One might say....it is the natural progression of things. History repeating itself..........but in an open communication environment where these things can no longer be hidden as easily as in days of yore.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Karzai Demands ‘Accelerated’ Withdrawal After LA Times Photos

The fact that the war is lost is virtually accepted wisdom at this point

Karzai Demands ‘Accelerated’ Withdrawal After LA Times Photos -- News from Antiwar.com

 

[gopher]

skoo,

The run of the mill American democrat is not a "progressive" but much further right.

That is true of many but not all true Democrats.

OB,

Why does every topic have to deteriorate into a Right vs Left political issue??

All too often this is the inevitable consequence of topic discussions. But that's because too many Yanks allow others to do their thinking for them. For example, many right wingers assume that you are a liberal or socialist if you oppose foreign wars. Yet, opposition to foreign wars is, has always been, and in theory should be a conservative viewpoint.

The only reason why right wingers love foreign wars is because they have prostituted their principles for money. They know such wars mean corporate profits and more money into their pockets. But solid core values such as love for America, the principle of self determination, the idea of freedom from higher taxes, the freedom of needlessly expanded government ~ all these high principles have been dropped down the toilet and prostituted by the right for money. Paradoxically, these are the same people who call themselves ''moral Christians'' which means they, more than anyone else should NEVER compromise their principles in the name of materialism. But such is life in the States. From what I have read on this forum, it appears Canada is headed in the same direction.

 

[L Gilbert]

* U.S. Troops Posed With Body Parts of Afghan Bombers*

Why don't they just get the hell out of Afghanistan ?

....someone is going to have to pound some reality into them and those that create these wars of choice. As they keep repeating the same stupidity not having learned a bloody thing from the previoius disaster.

.....if this is the new US image (military) ......why do the powers that be keep yaking about 'core values". These ARE now the core values and have been since the first photos of torture showed up.[/LEFT]

Yep. Everyone should just duck out of Afghanistan and the media shouldn't let us know about stuff like this:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-31/asia/world_asia_afghanistan-acid-attack_1_acid-attack-eastern-ghazni-province-afghanistan?_s=PM:ASIA


http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-12/world/afghanistan.acid.attack_1_al-jazeera-acid-attack-taliban-militants?_s=PM:WORLD

http://www.care.org/newsroom/articles/2009/11/girls-schools-afghanistan-violence-attacks-20091123.asp

 

[gerryh]

Did the pics look something like this hypocrite?

Somalia Affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People in glass houses.

roflmfao... same one over and over and over again. Each time the americans are shown to do some horrific, backward bull****, you bring up the same Canadian incident. Different american, same Canadian. Can you not compare one for one? Or is the actual truth that there is no comparing the garbage that americans do, unless of course you compare what their "enemy" does. Now there we can make some fair and valid comparisons.:roll:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-31/...astern-ghazni-province-afghanistan?_s=PM:ASIA

and here's Les's links again since he seems to be having a problem posting them properly

Police: Two children killed in Afghanistan acid attack - CNN


Two schoolgirls blinded in acid attack in Afghanistan - CNN

Report Finds Girls' Schools in Afghanistan Face Highest Risk of Violence; Suggests Steps for Preventing Attacks

 

[taxslave]

Why does every topic have to deteriorate into a Right vs Left political issue?? It is simple. IF folks find this kind of conduct acceptable......say so. Don't "justify" it on some vague grounds. IF WAR is behind this kind of conduct .....and it might well be......given that these current wars have been ELECTIVE......(no matter how successful the brainwashing has been on some ) ... it follows that the troops will behave in barbaric ways as they feel they are entitled due to the power that elective wars give them, their organizers and their gov't. It is about WAR CULTURE and POWER ........as well as arrogance. Humanity is no longer a value . It is known that war dehumanizes people that ordinarily would not be targetted for killilng. All the gov't has to do ;is declare them an enemy or whatever the current vernacular is.

This conduct is a symptom of what has gone from bad to worse. But folks are too resistive to consider it in that view........as the black and white view of political propaganda is much easier to accept and deal with.

If those that defend this conduct .......on whatever basis think it has no impact on the US reputation.....fine.

Maybe the war lovers should rethink their passions ... But that won't happen. War is profit in too many circles ...and the troops are tools that are used by the game players. What is tragic , is that even the troops are dehumanized. NO one should be exposed to what they are forced to see as they kill others in far off nations that were not a threat.

It is a political issue. Us , in free democratic countries vs terrorists that would deny others basic human rights.
Maybe the terrorist apologists should rethink their position. Remember these young men and women like those that came before them are fighting to protect your "right" to dis their actions with no clue about what is going on in a war zone.

 

[EagleSmack]

roflmfao... same one over and over and over again. Each time the americans are shown to do some horrific, backward bull****, you bring up the same Canadian incident. Different american, same Canadian. Can you not compare one for one? Or is the actual truth that there is no comparing the garbage that americans do, unless of course you compare what their "enemy" does. Now there we can make some fair and valid comparisons.:roll:

Wow... YOU calling others repetitive? Now that's something.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

It is a political issue. Us , in free democratic countries vs terrorists that would deny others basic human rights.
Maybe the terrorist apologists should rethink their position. Remember these young men and women like those that came before them are fighting to protect your "right" to dis their actions with no clue about what is going on in a war zone.

Let's not be naive. The troops are NOT fighting to protect anyone's rights. They are in the ME because of POLITICAL reasons that would be designed to benefit the warring gov't.

We are no better than those "we" claim to be fighting........as all we are doing is terrorizing nation fuls of people who don't deserve to be terrorized.

Violence is NOT the path to peace.......or some facsimile of . Notice the words peace are hardly mentioned. anymore. The fear mongers have brainwashed much of the population into being afraid of terrorism , or whatever else they deem useful to keep the people afraid.

Who on this planet is the most militarized , prone to war , and aggression and has used nukes?? The same nation that is constantly AFRAID of either communists , or whatever the in fear is to now terrorists. They have magnified this terror issue to the point that there is even a celeb status associated with it .....and the media loves it. Bad news sells.

Who on earth are the terrorist apologists?? Another catch term to brand others that try to see the view from all sides and penetrate the kool aide that is being forced on folks .......without them even knowing it.

What freedoms ???, btw: Driving through various places in the US now.....is like driving through a prison. No sidewalks , just gated (paranoid) communties that don't dare step out for fear of "terrorism" or being shot. How is that "free". Freedoms have been eroded with the peoples passive consent .......and yet they make such silly claims : fighting over THERE to protect our freedoms over HERE. Irrational as it gets . and yet this is regurgitated virtually on command. now.

What happened to the THINKING and intellectually critical america?? They are AFRAID.

No one "fights" for our freedoms. That is total nonsense. Particularly when folks willingly allow their privacy to be intruded on, their bodies "searched" (groped) , and call it "security". People need guns to defend themselves from themselves now. Something about out of control comes to mind.

but heck........believe what you want to BELIEVE. Those that still think, analyse and question are the ones that stand a chance of saving a nation from continuous self destructive behavior.

All that this craziness has done re:terrorists is elevate them into a tangible entity that is now attractive to all kinds of social misfits who's rage is the basis of this dynamic.

There should NOT BE a WAR ZONE created by what is supposed to ;be a progressive nation. Hot spots and war zones exist when people simply do not know any better and have not developed their society and culture through mandatory education.

 

[Goober]

Let's not be naive. The troops are NOT fighting to protect anyone's rights. They are in the ME because of POLITICAL reasons that would be designed to benefit the warring gov't.

We are no better than those "we" claim to be fighting........as all we are doing is terrorizing nation fuls of people who don't deserve to be terrorized.

Violence is NOT the path to peace.......or some facsimile of . Notice the words peace are hardly mentioned. anymore. The fear mongers have brainwashed much of the population into being afraid of terrorism , or whatever else they deem useful to keep the people afraid.

Who on this planet is the most militarized , prone to war , and aggression and has used nukes?? The same nation that is constantly AFRAID of either communists , or whatever the in fear is to now terrorists. They have magnified this terror issue to the point that there is even a celeb status associated with it .....and the media loves it. Bad news sells.

Who on earth are the terrorist apologists?? Another catch term to brand others that try to see the view from all sides and penetrate the kool aide that is being forced on folks .......without them even knowing it.

What freedoms , btw: Driving through various places in the US now.....is like driving through a prison. No sidewalks , just gated (paranoid) communties that don't dare step out for fear of "terrorism" or being shot. How is that "free". Freedoms have been eroded with the peoples passive consent .......and yet they make such silly claims : fighting over THERE to protect our freedoms over HERE. Irrational as it gets . and yet this is regurgitated virtually on command. now.

What happened to the THINKING and intellectually critical america?? They are AFRAID.

No one "fights" for our freedoms. That is total nonsense. Particularly when folks willingly allow their privacy to be intruded on, their bodies "searched" (groped) , and call it "security". People need guns to defend themselves from themselves now. Something about out of control comes to mind.

but heck........believe what you want to BELIEVE. Those that still think, analyse and question are the ones that stand a chance of saving a nation from continuous self destructive behavior.

Uh Hum. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East.

 

[gerryh]

Uh Hum. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East.

:roll::roll:

 

[Goober]

:roll::roll:

The OP is Afghanistan is it not.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Since terrorism has been brought up: Again the unaswered question: Who Benefits??? (and benefitted )

check this out:

The 9/11 Attacks on the World Trade Center (WTC): Unspoken Financial Bonanza


Who benefitted more from the initial attacks?? (9-11) the terrorists or someone else ??

Someone ALWAYS benefits from each such event , tragedy or act.

 

[Goober]

Since terrorism has been brought up: Again the unaswered question: Who Benefits??? (and benefitted )

check this out:

The 9/11 Attacks on the World Trade Center (WTC): Unspoken Financial Bonanza


Who benefitted more from the initial attacks?? (9-11) the terrorists or someone else ??

Someone ALWAYS benefits from each such event , tragedy or act.

And some see conspiracy everywhere they look.

 

[B00Mer]

Uh Hum. Afghanistan is not in the Middle East.

...closer to South Asia.

Next someone will say Mexico is part of Central America.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

...closer to South Asia.

Next someone will say Mexico is part of Central America.

Oh good, a Geography lesson;-):smile:

 

[gerryh]

...closer to South Asia.

Problem is, thwere's the Indian sub continent between Afghanistan and what is considered South east Asia.

http://www.landinfo.com/images/MiddleEastCountries.jpg

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Now that "freedoms" have been brought up:

check this out.

The NSA Is Watching You

by Amy Goodman
Three targeted Americans: A career government intelligence official, a filmmaker and a hacker. None of these U.S. citizens was charged with a crime, but they have been tracked, surveilled, detained—sometimes at gunpoint—and interrogated, with no access to a lawyer. Each remains resolute in standing up to the increasing government crackdown on dissent.

The NSA Is Watching You | Common Dreams

One has to empathize as not many would choose to live in a place where the freedoms that are bragged about are being eroded in front of their eyes with there passive consent. The only ones that can't see what is taking place are those it is happening to. This is how a malignancy spreads... and before they know it .....they don't live the life they thought they did and wonder what happened.

 

[WLDB]

[/B]


Karzai Demands ‘Accelerated’ Withdrawal After LA Times Photos -- News from Antiwar.com

Hmm. Didnt know Karzai was suicidal. Once all western troops are out of the country Karzai will likely be overthrown and killed.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Hmm. Didnt know Karzai was suicidal. Once all western troops are out of the country Karzai will likely be overthrown and killed.

So after all this human loss, financial expenditure, and protracted war effort , the US approved puppet is to die anyhow.?? I guess war and invasions don't change the basic nature of a culture and it is foolish to try. It will change when it is ready on its own terms.

. All that money could have upgraded schools in the US , and focussed on domestic concerns that the impoverished are having. Or upgrading other essentials at home. It is not like much cannot be done on the domestic scene to make the US a great nation again. Yet it prefers to spend megabucks on protracted invasions where only a select few truly benefit.......and it is not the nation being invaded.

The "west" aka the US is not being humanitarian by killing so many of their people, and destroying their essential structures etc.

It is THEIR nation.......and if they have to go through the kind of bloodshed the US went through in its development ......so be it. At least then they can say THEY DID it themselves and have created what they want for themselves. NO ONE Has the right to impose anything on anyone else. Each must evolve at its own rate and its own way.

How long can the US rely on a war -economy and resume being progressive??

another example of "bad to worse"...(the new reality)

The US government relies on secret evidence in its cases against alleged terrorists, claiming that national security would be threatened if the evidence were revealed. This is abject nonsense. It is an absurd claim that presenting evidence against a terrorist jeopardizes the national security of the United States.

To the contrary, not presenting evidence jeopardizes the security of each and every one of us. Once the government can convict defendants on the basis of secret evidence, even the concept of a fair trial will disappear. Fair trials are already history, but the concept lingers.

Secret evidence murders the concept of a fair trial. It murders justice and the rule of law. Secret evidence means anyone can be convicted of anything. As in Kafka’s The Trial, people will cease to know the crimes for which they are being tried and convicted.

This extraordinary development in Anglo-American law, a development demanded by the unaccountable Bush/Obama Regime, has not resulted in impeachment proceedings; nor has it caused an uproar from Congress, the federal courts, the presstitute media, law schools, constitutional scholars, and bar associations.

Having bought the government’s 9/11 conspiracy theory, Americans just want someone to pay. They don’t care who as long as someone pays. To accommodate this desire, the government has produced some “high value detainees” with Arab or Muslim names. But instead of bringing these alleged malefactors to trial and presenting evidence against them, the government has kept them in torture dungeons for years trying to create through the application of pain and psychological breakdown guilt by self-incrimination in order to create a case against them.

The government has been unsuccessful and has nothing that it can bring to a real court. So the Bush/Obama Regime created and recreated “military tribunals” to lend “national security” credence to the absolute need that non-existent evidence be kept secret.

TRIALS WITHOUT CRIMES OR EVIDENCE

 

[gerryh]

The OP is Afghanistan is it not.

Problem is, thwere's the Indian sub continent between Afghanistan and what is considered South east Asia.

http://www.landinfo.com/images/MiddleEastCountries.jpg

gee goob.... no comment?