For Justin Trudeau

[JLM]

Go look at the unemployment figures and then take another look at the same figures that include the # of people that have stopped looking.

In the end, over 50% of the working population in the US don't pay federal income taxes... That alone should set off the red lights.

Should the working poor who can't afford medical coverage or sufficient nourishing food REALLY be expected to add to the coffers to feed fat bureaucrats?

You just posted all that to piss off gerry, didn't you?

The world economy is being engineered to fail. There is nothing anybody, especially governments, can do to prevent it. It is out of their control. Those that control the money want a one world currency. Politicians are just there to deflect your attention from the real culprits.

Piss off unflappable Gerry!!!!!!!! You got to be kidding.-

 

[captain morgan]

Should the working poor who can't afford medical coverage or sufficient nourishing food REALLY be expected to add to the coffers to feed fat bureaucrats?

Whatever.

If you can't see that this is not realistic to maintain the level of gvt services, etc and have not only no income, but just accruing debt - then there is nothing that I can say that will alter your opinion.

Keep borrowing money to do whatever you like and hope that the loan-fairy will visit over night and make things right again, and again, and again.

 

[JLM]

Whatever.

If you can't see that this is not realistic to maintain the level of gvt services, etc and have not only no income, but just accruing debt - then there is nothing that I can say that will alter your opinion.

Keep borrowing money to do whatever you like and hope that the loan-fairy will visit over night and make things right again, and again, and again.

I hear you, but you are going about it from the wrong end. You want the folks at the bottom end of the economic scale to fix the country.
Politicians are there to serve the electorates demands. It's a self fulfilling prophesy, politicians promise the moon to get elected and the people are gullible enough to elect them. Everyone has to work together to fix the problem, people have to demand less and politicians have to adopt an austerity program but not on the backs of those who can't afford to pay taxes. I'd bet the 10,000 richest Americans, if they want to could put the country back on its feet.

 

[gerryh]

I'll agree but that really doesn't prove much. He needs to do something, away from this issue to answer the challenge that he is anything other than a lightweight outside of Quebec, and especially Montreal.



Please illustrate these "un-winnable" situations again. I'll give him his due: he ran in some tough campaigning in Quebec and persevered... but at the same time, he was running in Quebec, and is the son of one of the most Quebec-centric PMs ever. He ignites the fires of Liberals who long for a return to the heady days of "Trudeau-mania" but who else has he shown he inspires?

At this point in time, he only needs to do what is necessary to win the Liberal leadership. Inspire, unite and ignite the Liberals, that is his job right now.

I'll re-admit my bias: I hated P.E.T., growing up in the Alberta oilpatch during the NEP days, and seeing the effects of his policies (lost jobs, businesses and homes)on friends and family. The last thing I would ever support would be a return to that type of leadership. I probably won't vote Liberal anyway, but Justin would have to prove himself a lot different than his old man to even show up on my radar.

and I have a bias towards P.E.T. What you might want to do though, is check and see Lougheeds involvement and what exactly ended up happening with the NEP and WHY Alberta had job losses.

 

[captain morgan]

I hear you, but you are going about it from the wrong end. You want the folks at the bottom end of the economic scale to fix the country.
Politicians are there to serve the electorates demands. It's a self fulfilling prophesy, politicians promise the moon to get elected and the people are gullible enough to elect them. Everyone has to work together to fix the problem, people have to demand less and politicians have to adopt an austerity program but not on the backs of those who can't afford to pay taxes. I'd bet the 10,000 richest Americans, if they want to could put the country back on its feet.

There's nothing more that I can say JLM.

And btw - if you confiscated all of the wealth of the top 1000 richest Americans, and I mean take everything including the shirt off their back, you still wouldn't have enough money to cover this year's deficit - let alone pay anything towards the debt... Then of course, you'd have next year's deficit to worry about, but at least you stuck it to those fat cats, eh?

Edit:

I stand corrected JLM.

If you confiscated the total combined wealth of the 400 richest Americans, you would have enough to pay for the 2012 deficit with about 400 billion for the 2013 deficit.

N.B.: Found this interesting:

"Gates and Buffett are also the most generous people on the planet, having given $28 billion and $17.5 billion to date, respectively, including $1.5 billion that Buffett gave away since the last rich list."

The Forbes 400: The Richest People In America - Forbes

those damn greedy bastards.

 

[Cliffy]

What about the richest corporations? Are they paying their fair share of taxes? I don't think so.

 

[JLM]

There's nothing more that I can say JLM.

And btw - if you confiscated all of the wealth of the top 1000 richest Americans, and I mean take everything including the shirt off their back, you still wouldn't have enough money to cover this year's deficit - let alone pay anything towards the debt... Then of course, you'd have next year's deficit to worry about, but at least you stuck it to those fat cats, eh?

Edit:

I stand corrected JLM.

If you confiscated the total combined wealth of the 400 richest Americans, you would have enough to pay for the 2012 deficit with about 400 billion for the 2013 deficit.

N.B.: Found this interesting:

"Gates and Buffett are also the most generous people on the planet, having given $28 billion and $17.5 billion to date, respectively, including $1.5 billion that Buffett gave away since the last rich list."

The Forbes 400: The Richest People In America - Forbes

those damn greedy bastards.

I wasn't talking about confiscating anything, but you've already shown what the richest 400 could achieve, 10,000 was the figure I mentioned. I don't really believe in the taxing the hell out of the rich either, but it sure beats making people below the poverty line foot the bill. I guess it would be against "human rights" to tax the rich according to how they got rich, I'm thinking of old rounders a la Joseph Kennedy's ilk!

What about the richest corporations? Are they paying their fair share of taxes? I don't think so.

You got to be careful there Cliffy. They are paying things that are more important than taxes like people's wages and they in turn are paying taxes so I would say yes they are, indirectly at least!

 

[Chev]

Why should "WE" do anything? He's not "president" of Canada. "WE" have no fu cking say in what he does or doesn't do.

Take it to one of the obama threads.

Agree, “We” shouldn’t have to do anything. And yes, “We” have no say in what Obama does or doesn’t do. But, should “WE” not have some concern about what Obama does or doesn’t do. Can any choices he makes possibly cause any problems in Canada? As being major trading partners?

 

[Vancouverite]

Ask him about Alberta while you're at it. And who knows, he may sign up here.

 

[Locutus]

After voting to keep it, Justin Trudeau now calls long gun registry a ‘failure’



Justin Trudeau now calls the long gun registry a ‘failure’ | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post

 

[captain morgan]

I wasn't talking about confiscating anything, but you've already shown what the richest 400 could achieve, 10,000 was the figure I mentioned.

Do you really think that these people will volunteer to donate every last penny that they have 'cause you ask nicely?

The 400 richest would have to liquidate everyone of their businesses, turn over bank accounts, sell assets, etc in order to meet this year's budget deficit... Once that is done, they are beggared - no more to contribute today, tomorrow or next year which means that you'll need to round-up the next group of wealthy people to pay for the entitlements for 2013 (without Gates and Buffet mind you).

I don't really believe in the taxing the hell out of the rich either,

... But you're willing to make the exception this time, right?

but it sure beats making people below the poverty line foot the bill.

Here's a novel idea - how about fostering a private sector environment that will result in greater employment?.. You can earn money (and wait for it) - purchase your own goods and services.

Opps, hang on; that's right - you don't support making the people that actually demand the services any way responsible for funding them.... Sorry - I forgot

I guess it would be against "human rights" to tax the rich according to how they got rich,

I'm guessing that it must be against someone's human rights to work too.

I'm thinking of old rounders a la Joseph Kennedy's ilk!

Well then, that makes it OK to strip all those people of their wealth.

What about the richest corporations? Are they paying their fair share of taxes? I don't think so.

What about them?

Say Cliffy, what amount of taxes do you pay?

 

[JLM]

Do you really think that these people will volunteer to donate every last penny that they have 'cause you ask nicely?

The 400 richest would have to liquidate everyone of their businesses, turn over bank accounts, sell assets, etc in order to meet this year's budget deficit... Once that is done, they are beggared - no more to contribute today, tomorrow or next year which means that you'll need to round-up the next group of wealthy people to pay for the entitlements for 2013 (without Gates and Buffet mind you).




... But you're willing to make the exception this time, right?



Here's a novel idea - how about fostering a private sector environment that will result in greater employment?.. You can earn money (and wait for it) - purchase your own goods and services.

Opps, hang on; that's right - you don't support making the people that actually demand the services any way responsible for funding them.... Sorry - I forgot



I'm guessing that it must be against someone's human rights to work too.



Well then, that makes it OK to strip all those people of their wealth.



What about them?

Say Cliffy, what amount of taxes do you pay?

I think you missed the gist of my last post.............you stated 400, I stated 10,000, basically as I've said many times I'm against taxing the rich just because they are rich, there's just too many side effects, one being shutting down operations that employ people. I ONLY raised the possibility because you suggested having the destitute pay income tax to put the country back on its feet and we all know THAT will not work. But there are exceptions to every rule- like C.E.O.s who earn $billions in salaries and bonuses for sitting on their fat A$$ and screwing people- let's tax the sh*t out of them before hitting the local bag lady!

 

[captain morgan]

I think you missed the gist of my last post.............you stated 400, I stated 10,000, basically as I've said many times I'm against taxing the rich just because they are rich, there's just too many side effects, one being shutting down operations that employ people. I ONLY raised the possibility because you suggested having the destitute pay income tax to put the country back on its feet and we all know THAT will not work. But there are exceptions to every rule- like C.E.O.s who earn $billions in salaries and bonuses for sitting on their fat A$$ and screwing people- let's tax the sh*t out of them before hitting the local bag lady!

Unbelievable... Truly unbelievable.

To start - the top 10,000 richest American households include those that make over $200k a year - hardly in the realm of Bill Gates, but I guess that doesn't matter in this instance, does it? They should be obligated to 'donate' every nickle they have to pay for another year's social programs.

More importantly, invoking the imagery that myself or anyone else is promoting that society 'tax the destitute' is not only inaccurate, but impossible.... How do you extract taxes from those that have no money?.. You're not one to use drama and theatrics as a crutch, so why start now?

That brings us to the CEOs making billions... Can you show me who is on this list?.. And of all of them, do they all 'screw the public' to do this?

You can look into it here; CEO Compensation, 2012 but I don't see the billions in bonuses adding up.

We can simply disagree on this JLM; but enough of the drama Queen fiction about taxing bag ladies (for empty bottles I presume). Maybe at some point you'll figure-out that if you can't afford something, you find an alternative before you borrow money from a rich uncle or sell a kidney.

Think about it

 

[petros]

Why do people think taxing the rich is going to do anything? Nobody, absolutely nobody's assets can be taxed. Just income.

 

[JLM]

Why do people think taxing the rich is going to do anything? Nobody, absolutely nobody's assets can be taxed. Just income.

Right on Petros, with the possible exception of very idle rich. I was just countering Cap't contention of taxing the poor, who in fact actually pay taxes anyway, their taxes are just siphoned through an entrepreneur!

 

[captain morgan]

Tell ya what JLM, how about this as a compromise:

You're retired, right? And I assume that you own your home and new truck (you bought a new one a year ago, right?), you have savings, RRSPs, RIFs, life insurance and other assets... That makes you among the 'wealthy' in Canada... Lots of assets, cash and no debt.

I think that you'll agree that it's hardly fair that you have so much and there are those that have little or nothing... Destitute, one might say.

So, with this in mind, I suggest; in the name of feeding the hungry, housing the poor and comforting the destitute that society 'tax' all the wealth of the retirees... To be honest, it is a 100% 'tax' so it's more like confiscation, but think of the good that it will do for a couple or three years.

Can I count you on board on this?

 

[JLM]

Tell ya what JLM, how about this as a compromise:

You're retired, right? And I assume that you own your home and new truck (you bought a new one a year ago, right?), you have savings, RRSPs, RIFs, life insurance and other assets... That makes you among the 'wealthy' in Canada... Lots of assets, cash and no debt.

I think that you'll agree that it's hardly fair that you have so much and there are those that have little or nothing... Destitute, one might say.

So, with this in mind, I suggest; in the name of feeding the hungry, housing the poor and comforting the destitute that society 'tax' all the wealth of the retirees... To be honest, it is a 100% 'tax' so it's more like confiscation, but think of the good that it will do for a couple or three years.

Can I count you on board on this?

You're partly right, I have no life insurance and to off set the assets I'm also carrying about $140 grand in debt. I own about 2/3 of my house and half my truck, but I also send paltry contributions to charities..................if that makes me "among the wealthy in Canada" I apologize for shirking my obligations. Actually you know, that has been already pointed out to me-, by the illustrious and fully informed connoseur of greedy, whining seniors!-

 

[captain morgan]

You're partly right, I have no life insurance and to off set the assets I'm also carrying about $140 grand in debt. I own about 2/3 of my house and half my truck, but I also send paltry contributions to charities..................if that makes me "among the wealthy in Canada" I apologize for shirking my obligations. Actually you know, that has been already pointed out to me-, by the illustrious and fully informed connoseur of greedy, whining seniors!-

Not so great an idea when you are among the group with the target on your chest, is it?

 

[JLM]

Not so great an idea when you are among the group with the target on your chest, is it?

I'm not just sure what point it is you are trying to make as it's one of these situations where there is no perfect answer. You think the situation can be solved by the ones on the bottom end of the economic scale paying income tax. You have also suggested that we need to cut back and be satisfied with less. On an individual basis that works well, but it doesn't help the country out much because we are not doing things that employ people. There is one other thing that has me puzzled. Every country that I'm aware of with the possible except of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia is deep in debt, so who is all this money owed to? -

 

[Locutus]

Justin Trudeau scrambles to explain gun registry stance

Justin Trudeau scrambles to explain gun registry stance - thestar.com


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