Family Slaughtered By Palestinians

CDNBear

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The Guardian is far more credible than 99% of American sources. But just to make it plain to anyone reading this string that you are a hypocrite, lets take a look at the credibility of sources you didn't question:
What are you talking about? You use some of the flimsiest places to gather news, as have been consistently proven wrong, time and time again.

Does she sound objective to you?
As objective as you.

Sound like an agenda to me.
You would know, you would have one of the most notorious at CC.
I suggest you educate yourself about The Guardian's long history (est. 1791).
History of the Observer | GNM archive | guardian.co.uk
History doesn't make it unbiased.

Your comment regarding The Guardian's objectiveness in the context of all the other crap you accept at face value makes you look like an hypocritical idiot.
Looking in the mirror are we?

Remember when you challenged me to read and disprove the Goldstone report?

I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge I provided substantial evidence throwing a shadow on it.

When this ethnic cleansing war started back in 1947, most Palestinians were unarmed peasants.
To bad their fellow Muslim neighbours weren't...

God forbid you recognize historical fact.

I suggest you start reading The Guardian for balance, as you obviously know little more about this conflict that what you've been told by pro-Israel propaganda sources.
Unlike your pro Palestinian sources right?

Regarding the massacre:

Here is first hand testimony from a survivor:
LiveLeak.com - 13Yr Old al Samouni Survivor of Israeli War Crime Testimony
And again, you only afford jurisprudence to the side you support.

Not only did the IDF herd about 80 civilians into a single home before shelling it, killing most of the occupants inside, they alos block ambulances from evacualting the wounded for 4 days... acording to the International Committee of the Red Cross/Crescent:
And yet the ICC has dismissed all claims. Go figure, even when jurisprudence dictates your stories are BS, you still can't afford Israel any respect.

This war crime and many others just like it were independently reported by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch:
And never heard before the ICC.

Instead of condemning Israeli war crimes, you choose not to believe them and instead blame the victims.
He didn't say he didn't believe Israel hasn't committed war crimes. He said you have an agenda. One so strong that you ignore reality to keep it going.

Why don't you be honest for a change.
I'd have another heart attack if you were for once.

We both know Israel isn't finished taking more land and property from these people. We both know Israel's leaders will commit as many war crimes as they have to to take the land God gave to Jews. You support Israeli war criminals and oppose Palestinian ones. I oppose the war criminals on both sides and support innocent people on both sides who just want to live in peace.
You support neo Nazi war criminals and believe anything that paints Israel as bad. No matter the incontrovertible evidence placed before you.

The only hypocrite I see here, if you.
 

earth_as_one

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lmfao, why so hostile? Do you not agree that killing a sleeping family by stabbing the chest and cutting the throat, including children as young as three months, is a war crime? Why would suggesting that you would consider that a war crime raise vitriol towards me?

No that I really care, just wondering.

It could be a war crime. It could also be a murder which had nothing to do with the political conflict. You seem willing to accept this as a war crime even though the perpetrator has not been apprehended and their motives are unknown. Either way, I have no problems condemning these murders or a war crime. Unlike you, I'll wait for more facts before deciding what this was.

I've posted many links here showing how Israelis have committed far worse atrocities. I've observed that you have never condemned a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity.
 

CDNBear

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It could be a war crime. It could also be a murder which had nothing to do with the political conflict. You seem willing to accept this as a war crime even though the perpetrator has not been apprehended and their motives are unknown.
Again with the selective application of jurisprudence?

And you call anybody else a hypocrite?

Either way, I have no problems condemning this as a murders or as a war crime. I'll wait for more facts before deciding what this was.
Why does everybody else get that respect but the Joos?

I've posted many links here showing how Israelis have committed far worse atrocities.
Alleged! Why is it when Israel is accused, they're guilty? But when Palestine is accused, you need a far greater standard of proof?

You are the worst kind of hypocrite! The kind that spreads lies as if they were the truth. Reports anecdote as if it were fact.

You and people like you, perpetuate the violence by making the truth so hard to find, that no one can accurately take the correct action, and make it all end!

I've observed that you have never condemned a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity.
I have, and yet you still make the silly claim I support Israeli war crimes, so does it really make a difference what he does?

Not to mention I've observed you straight out absolve terror groups and their supporters of any wrong doing, while justifying it with your brand of moral relativism.
 
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earth_as_one

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Rounding up a neighborhood and herding them into a single building before bombing it is about as much of an "alleged" war crime as this Fogel's family deaths are an alleged murder. There is no doubt that this event happened, just like the Fogel's were murdered. There is also no doubt that IDF soldiers blocked ambulances from evacuating the dead and dying for four days.

I have no idea who in the IDF is responsible these crimes, but if anyone is ever charged with this crime, they will be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
 

CDNBear

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Rounding up a neighborhood and herding them into a single building before bombing it is about as much of an "alleged" war crime as this Fogel's family deaths are an alleged murder.
You can try and narrow your focus all you want EAO. You are fully exposed for what you are.

There is no doubt that this event happened, just like the Fogel's were murdered. There is also no doubt that IDF soldiers blocked ambulances from evacuating the dead and dying for four days.
Yet no court has heard the case. But that means nothing, because it's the Joos. While Palestine gets the EAO gift of presumed innocence, until proven guilty beyond your very flexible standard.

I have no idea who in the IDF is responsible these crimes, but if anyone is ever charged with this crime, they will be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Good change of heart.

So when are you going to stop condemning Israel over every anecdotal story?
 

Colpy

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Rounding up a neighborhood and herding them into a single building before bombing it is about as much of an "alleged" war crime as this Fogel's family deaths are an alleged murder. There is no doubt that this event happened, just like the Fogel's were murdered. There is also no doubt that IDF soldiers blocked ambulances from evacuating the dead and dying for four days.

I have no idea who in the IDF is responsible these crimes, but if anyone is ever charged with this crime, they will be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.


There may be no doubt that the Israelis urged the neighbourhood to take shelter in a single building............there may even be no doubt that the Israelis shelled that building.......BUT what is very much in doubt is if the shelling was accidental, or if Hamas fired on Israelis from the building or from closeby.

In either of those probabilities, there was no crime committed.

It is absolutely certain that the murders were murders.

It is absolutely certain that the Palestinians celebrated the beheading of a three month old baby by handing out sweets.

It is also absolutely certain that the Israelis took great care to avoid civilian casualties in Operation Cast Lead as, by Hamas' own admission, one half of the casualties were militants, crippling Hamas' military wing, and achieving the admirable rate of civilian death one tenth the norm, in the most densely packed population on earth.

BTW, have you noted Hamas' reaction to unity protests against them in Gaza???????
 

captain morgan

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It is absolutely certain that the Palestinians celebrated the beheading of a three month old baby by handing out sweets.


And herein lies the quintessential difference between the Jews and the Palestinians. The degree of callousness and disregard for the most fragile of humans and these animals that celebrate this butchery... They deserve no mercy or consideration.

At some point, the Israelis will hit critical mass and will raze all things standing in their path and all of the pissing and moaning by bleeding hearts won't make one iota of difference.
 

earth_as_one

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How do you know Palestinians were handing out sweets in celebration of murdering children? I could make the same claim about Canadians regarding any event which happens on October 30th, the day before Halloween. So and so was murdered... Look at the cruel Canadians handing out sweets and wearing costumes celebrating their death. Let's build more settlements...

I've tried searching for a reputable source linking this claim to the murders without any success. I've found tons of claims from the usual propaganda sources, but not a single story from a reputable objective source.

In fact it looks like the West bank Palestinian authority actively assisted in the search for the perpetrator and subsequent investigation. In compensation for their cooperation, Israel is annexing more of the West Bank. Funny Israel is able to use murder to justify taking more Palestinian land. I don't see how one should be related to the other.

I smell a rat...

A Gazan's Reflection on the Murder of Jews in Itamar
By Samah Sabawi
The morning news of the Itamar murders broke out, I got a call from my father, a man from Gaza whose entire life was derailed by Israel's occupation of his land. He was fuming: "nothing could justify these murders" he yelled "even if we were to bring up the occupation, the harassment, the brutality of Israel's army and settlers - the minute we entertain an act so criminal as to kill a baby in cold blood, we become no better than those whose acts we despise." I posted his comment on my Facebook wall.
A day later, some of my Jewish friends sent me messages inquiring if it was true that Palestinians in Gaza celebrate the killing of Jews. One of them asked “Is there a custom to give out sweets after such events?” The messages came with several links. I expected to see the usual pro-Israel hasbara sites but to my surprise one link was to the Australian Herald Sun which lead me to an article titled ‘White House Condemn Killing’.

The article had no mention of any Gaza celebrations, but was accompanied by a large AFP credited photo of a man standing in a street in Gaza offering a small platter of sweets to two somber looking Hamas Policemen. The only reference or clue to celebration came in the photo caption: ‘A Palestinian man distributes sweets in the streets of the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on March 12, 2011 to celebrate an attack which killed five Israeli settlers at the Itamar settlement near the West Bank city of Nablus.’ I did some more research and found that the same article also appeared on Perth Now, News.com.au and The Daily Telegraph.

From here I began an extensive search on the internet. There were references to Gaza’s celebrations in a variety of international media websites including Fox News and Washington Post, but all the references pointed to one original source – three photos by AFP cameraman posted on Getty images, so I followed the trail.

The three original photos starred the same man with the same small sweet platter. In the first shot, he offers the platter to the two policemen; in the second he offers it to a man in a car at a traffic light who looks a bit confused but is accepting the offer of sweets; and in the third photo, the same man offers the small platter of sweets to an old lady sitting on a pavement. The backdrop of the photos revealed nothing more than an average busy day in a street in Gaza with the normal amount of traffic, a few cars, vans etc. There was nothing in the photos to convey a sense of joy or celebration: there were no crowds, no smiling faces, no banners, no flags and no scarfs… in fact, no people appeared in the photos except for the man with the platter and his subjects. This was highly unusual for a Gaza celebration.

But even if we were to assume that this lone man with the sweet platter was genuinely celebrating, how on earth does something like that make international media? One Palestinian man in a population of 1.5 million offering a tray of deserts? Did the same newspapers that published these photos also publish photos of busloads of Israeli tourists standing on a hill top celebrating while watching phosphourous rain fall on Palestinians during Israel’s bombardment of Gaza in 2009? The double standard here is astonishing.

It mattered little that no Palestinian faction claimed responsibility and even Hamas issued a statement saying that Palestinians do not target children. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas said in an interview on Israel Radio: “Scenes like these – the murder of infants and children and a woman slaughtered – cause any person endowed with humanity to hurt and to cry.” The frenzy of demonisation continues even though until this article was written there was no real proof that any Palestinians were involved in the murder.

The photos of so called ‘Gaza celebrations’ are becoming an internet sensation because they offer desperately needed proof that Palestinians are evil in nature. One headline from a hasbara site read “How do you start a party in Palestine? You kill a Jewish family.”

The campaign to demonise is indeed in full swing and seems to have no moral boundaries. Barely had the blood of the murdered children dried up the Ministry of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs in Israel hastened to release the graphic images of the murdered children to be used as fodder in the war to demonise the Palestinian people. The minister – who authorised the release – stated in an interview with the Israeli daily Haaretz “on the internet the images are really catching on and circulating”. After all, what could be worse than people who murder children and then celebrate?

Did we not learn anything from the tragic lessons of Jewish history about the vicious demonisation of an entire people? My response to my Jewish friends about Itamar was a simple one; “Your people and mine deserve better than this”.
- Samah Sabawi is a Public Advocate for Australians for Palestine. She contributed this article to PalestineChronicle.com.

A Gazan's Reflection on the Murder of Jews in Itamar
 

CDNBear

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How do you know Palestinians were handing out sweets in celebration of murdering children? I could make the same claim about Canadians regarding any event which happens on October 30th, the day before Halloween. So and so was murdered... Look at the cruel Canadians handing out sweets and wearing costumes celebrating their death. Let's build so more settlements...
So EAO, is there a holiday in Gaza that celebrates with candies. It's your assertion, it's yours to prove now.
I've tried searching for a reputable source linking this claim to the murders without any success. I've found tons of claims from the usual propaganda sources, but not a single story from a reputable objective source.
Of course they're all propaganda sources. They disprove the crap you think is fact.

In fact it looks like the West bank Palestinian authority actively assisted in the search for the perpetrator and subsequent investigation. In compensation for their cooperation, Israel is annexing more of the West Bank. Funny Israel is able to use murder to justify taking more Palestinian land. I don't see how one should be related to the other.
Did they take more land because of this murder? Prove it?

I smell a rat...
Take a shower, try perfume.

Key words are important...

"a" Gazan.
 

earth_as_one

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From Haaretz:

Palestinians denounce Itamar murders, but lay criticism on Israel

In PA newspapers, denunciations of murder of 5 family members in settlement of Itamar were found alongside condemnation of Israel's approval for new settlement construction.
By Avi Issacharoff

Many Palestinian commentators have denounced the murder of five members of the Fogel family in Itamar over the weekend, but not without noting that Israel and the settlers shared some of the blame.

In Palestinian Authority newspapers and on the social network pages of private citizens, denunciations of the murder could be found alongside condemnations of Israel's approval of the construction of 400 new homes in the settlement blocs. Many writers compared the murders to the actions of the settlers themselves.

"I don't believe that the incident in Itamar is an act of resistance, but rather an act by individuals whom we condemn, in the event it was carried out by Palestinians. Stabbing children in their sleep is not a heroic act but rather that of the heartless, like some of the occupation soldiers and settlers, who murder children," Hafez Barghouti, editor-in-chief of Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, wrote on Sunday.....

Palestinians denounce Itamar murders, but lay criticism on Israel - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

From the Jpost:

PA religious affairs minister condemns Itamar murders

The Palestinian Authority’s Minister of Religious Affairs Mahmoud Habbash on Thursday condemned last weekend’s murder of five Israelis in Itamar and insisted that the PA was acting to counter incitement against Jews.

“I say the same as [PA President Mahmoud] Abbas – this is a big crime against civilians in their homes, an inhuman crime,” he told The Jerusalem Post in a telephone interview.

“We are against such crimes from both sides, and against any murders, whether from the Palestinian or Israeli side. We want to see all the civilians living in peace in the Holy Land.”...

PA religious affairs minister condemns Itamar murders
 
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CDNBear

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Again with the selective belief eh?

Why is it those sources aren't bias Joo propaganda, when they aren't supporting your opinions?

Careful EAO, your Nazi loving, hypocritical bias is showing.
 

Just the Facts

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It could be a war crime. It could also be a murder which had nothing to do with the political conflict.

Absolutely. And if you were objective, the sensible response would have been to say just that. But you're not, so you didn't. Instead you attempted to downplay the horror of the murders by deflecting from them with a copy and paste (who would have guessed :) ) of allegations against Israel derived from fog of war accounts, and hysterically accusing me of being a hypocrite.

I'll meet you back here when the killers of the Fogels are convicted, or when the allegations concerning the Israeli war crime you cited are proven, whichever comes first.

Furthermore, if the killers turn out to be minions of the oh-so-cooperative Fatah, I reserve the right to ridicule you relentlessly for 14 days. :)

As for my hypocracy, Israel has rightly tried and convited it's own who were found to have commited war crimes.

See my earlier post in this thread for some examples of how Fatah and Hamas treat their war crime perpetrators.
 

earth_as_one

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Anyone with half a brain can see that Palestinians are being demonized yet again. You Israeli apologists are so willing to believe anything evil about Palestinians that you've put your brain in park. All the Israeli propagandists have is a single picture of one man on a busy Gaza street handing out sweets which may or may not be in context... As far as you know it could be a stock photo from 10 years ago. From that one image you believe their claims that Gaza had some sort of massive celebration. How many Palestinians can you justify killing based on that one image?

Wow, you people are dumber than a bag of hammers...

I'm finished with this thread until someone has some evidence of a massive Gaza celebration. I'd like to see pictures in context of people dancing in the street.

BTW: Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post are Israeli news sources....
 

CDNBear

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Wow, you people are dumber than a bag of hammers...
A clear case of projection.

BTW: Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post are Israeli news sources....
My point exactly. If anyone posted either of them as a source disproving your position, you'd claim bias propaganda.

Face it EAO, you've been fully exposed as the Nazi loving hypocrite you are.
 

earth_as_one

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JTF:

There have been a lot of war crimes in this conflict. I condemn all war crimes. You only condemn Palestinian ones.

I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, but.... Consider how far would the Israeli government or some Israeli settlers might go to further their agenda??? Until this murder is solved with conclusive evidence, everyone with an axe to grind in this conflict should be a suspect...