Fallujah: the truth at last How the US murdered a city!!

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

He's afraid of the fact, Mr. Mom. I have a few for him though...Reagan was a war criminal, so was George Sr. George Jr. has broken so many international wars that he will be reviled around the world for decades. You can't live on credit indefinitely. John R. Bolton is a freak and his appointment to the United Nations is a travesty. George Bush is considered largely irrelevant in Europe. The people of Lebanon have rejected US hegemony in the Middle East.

Digest those facts, Eaglesmack.

Have they rejected democracy? Not so fast

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/03/14/syria-march-050314.html

It looks like democracy might be harder to stop than you may think. The people of Lebanon are embracing this and have shown up in numbers much larger than the Hezbollah/Pro-Syrian demostrations.

Seeds have been planted and the people of the Middle East are saying...

"Why not us?"

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

The majority in Lebanon belong to the Shia sect. If allowed true democracy, where their candidates are allowed to run, they will reject the puppets put forth by the United States.

Notice how I didn't say that they had rejected democracy, EagleSmack? I said they rejected US hegemony. Given the history of the Middle East since WWI that could be seen as embracing democracy.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

The majority in Lebanon belong to the Shia sect. If allowed true democracy, where their candidates are allowed to run, they will reject the puppets put forth by the United States.

Notice how I didn't say that they had rejected democracy, EagleSmack? I said they rejected US hegemony. Given the history of the Middle East since WWI that could be seen as embracing democracy.

Not to get you going but you were pretty happy to see the Pro-Syrian demonstation and looked at it as a rejection of the US. Now there has been a larger demonstration of an Anti-Syrian forces which tend to favor the US position of getting the Syrian out of Lebanon. This is where you would tell me...

"You can't have it both ways little buddy"

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

The majority in Lebanon belong to the Shia sect. If allowed true democracy, where their candidates are allowed to run, they will reject the puppets put forth by the United States.

Notice how I didn't say that they had rejected democracy, EagleSmack? I said they rejected US hegemony. Given the history of the Middle East since WWI that could be seen as embracing democracy.

Is 41% a majority?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yes. The Shia will vote as a block. So will the various other groups for the most part. Since those other groups are smaller, the Shia will control a majority of the political seats. That's the way it works in most democracies, where there are more than two parties.

I understand that multi-party politics are hard for somebody who lives in a virtual one-party state like the US to understand, but to most of the world they are a fact of democracy.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yes. The Shia will vote as a block. So will the various other groups for the most part. Since those other groups are smaller, the Shia will control a majority of the political seats. That's the way it works in most democracies, where there are more than two parties.

I understand that multi-party politics are hard for somebody who lives in a virtual one-party state like the US to understand, but to most of the world they are a fact of democracy.

Yes I think it would be hard to understand for someone that lives in a virtual one party state. I agree. People like China. You're right on that.

Majority > 50%

Minority < 50%

41% = Minority

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yes. The Shia will vote as a block. So will the various other groups for the most part. Since those other groups are smaller, the Shia will control a majority of the political seats. That's the way it works in most democracies, where there are more than two parties.

I understand that multi-party politics are hard for somebody who lives in a virtual one-party state like the US to understand, but to most of the world they are a fact of democracy.

Do you also know that there are different sects of Shia? Iranian Shia are much different than Iraqi Shia. Shia's also have battled between themselves. So the bloc will be more fragmented than you think. Sure they may be Shia... but different views.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

We're talking about Lebanese Shia, Eaglesmack.

Your understanding of minorities and majorities as the pertain to multi-party politics is seriously flawed. If you will not learn how such a basic system works, then you cannot understand how the world works.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

We're talking about Lebanese Shia, Eaglesmack.

Your understanding of minorities and majorities as the pertain to multi-party politics is seriously flawed. If you will not learn how such a basic system works, then you cannot understand how the world works.

My point was that all Shia is different. It is like saying that all Christians vote the same or have the same view. Shia is a sect of Muslim... but not all Shia are the same. Lebanese Shia are no different. There are divisions.

Look at how you were claiming victory when 500K Pro-Syrian demonstrators came out to protest. You were so happy and you claimed victory.

I bet your jaw dropped this morning when you saw close to 1 Million Anti-Syrian Protestors counter demonstrated. I can tell you I had a big grin.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

I wasn't surprised at all. I was also unsurprised when they interviewed demonstrators from Europe, the US, and Canada. I was also unsuprised when they interviewed the two young men (actually this was during the Hezbollah rally) who had been at every demonstration because, they said, they wanted Syria out but they wanted to make it very clear that did not mean that they wanted the USA in.

You will find that, just like in Iraq, the various groups will vote as blocks for their candidates, Eaglesmack. Christians will vote for Christians, Jews will vote for Jews, and the various Muslim sects will vote their various leaders. The biggest group in Lebanon are the Shia so they will hold more seats than anybody else.

The divisions between the Shia (and the other groups too) will be solved when they are picking which candiates will run for their parties. Consider it to be like the primaries in your country.

Are you beginning to understand yet?

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

I wasn't surprised at all. I was also unsurprised when they interviewed demonstrators from Europe, the US, and Canada. I was also unsuprised when they interviewed the two young men (actually this was during the Hezbollah rally) who had been at every demonstration because, they said, they wanted Syria out but they wanted to make it very clear that did not mean that they wanted the USA in.

You will find that, just like in Iraq, the various groups will vote as blocks for their candidates, Eaglesmack. Christians will vote for Christians, Jews will vote for Jews, and the various Muslim sects will vote their various leaders. The biggest group in Lebanon are the Shia so they will hold more seats than anybody else.

The divisions between the Shia (and the other groups too) will be solved when they are picking which candiates will run for their parties. Consider it to be like the primaries in your country.

Are you beginning to understand yet?

Well it may be harder to solve than you think. Shia isn't new... democracy will not solve Shia divisions any more than democracy solves Repub. /Democratic problems.

You have to admit though amigo... you were in a joyous mood watching the Hezbollah / Pro-Syrian rallies.

"You see Eaglesmack! The people of Lebanon reject the US! You see!"

I would have LOVED to drop this morning's paper on your desk. C'mon, admit it... you didn't expect that... you can... it is ok. Because that would just be like saying

"I guess these new rallies show that the people of Lebanon support the US Policy and want SYRIA OUT."

Boy did the people of Lebanon blind side you!

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

No, those new demonstrations show that the people want Syria out. That is not the same as supporting US policy. I'm not sure why you find that so hard to grasp.

They are also not representative of the overall Lebanese population and there a lot of foreigners there.

You seem unable to understand that there are political realities in the Middle East that have little to do with the US, other than the citizens preference that the US not be involved.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

No, those new demonstrations show that the people want Syria out. That is not the same as supporting US policy. I'm not sure why you find that so hard to grasp.

They are also not representative of the overall Lebanese population and there a lot of foreigners there.

You seem unable to understand that there are political realities in the Middle East that have little to do with the US, other than the citizens preference that the US not be involved.

Well... you are contradicting yourself some. Again you were so excited about Hezbollah and Pro-Syrian Demonstrations. I even thought...

"Damn... Rev may be right"

But then I saw this morning and I thought...

"Wow he is not only wrong... but totally wrong."

The US Policy is not Syria Out and the US IN.

The US policy is Syria Out. And the people of Lebanon agree with our policy in this case. I commend them.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

The US policy is that they don't want Hezbollah or the Shia to gain any political power because they are against the United States.

The US policy, as it always has been, is to install governments that are US friendly. That is not the political reality in Lebanon though.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

The US policy is that they don't want Hezbollah or the Shia to gain any political power because they are against the United States.

The US policy, as it always has been, is to install governments that are US friendly. That is not the political reality in Lebanon though.

If we do not want Hezbollah or the Shia to gain power... then why do we want Syria out?

Syria dominates political power in Lebanon and are supported by Hezbollah. Syria supports Hezbollah.

I think Syria and Hezbollah KNOW that the withdrawl of Syrian Troops means an end to Hezbollah/Syrian power. Just like the Hezbollah Protestors sign said

SYRIA AND HEZBOLLAH ARE ONE

When Syria hits the road... Hezbollahs muscle is gone.

Are you getting it?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yeah, I'm getting it just fine...you don't understand politics, you have a very dim understanding of the Middle East, you believe Bush when he lies to you. I get it just fine.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yeah, I'm getting it just fine...you don't understand politics, you have a very dim understanding of the Middle East, you believe Bush when he lies to you. I get it just fine.

Ummmmm.... ok?


Are you ok?

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Fallujah: the truth a

Yeah, I'm getting it just fine...you don't understand politics, you have a very dim understanding of the Middle East, you believe Bush when he lies to you. I get it just fine.

 

[EagleSmack]

All... this link gives us insight on the types of people that the US is fighting over there in Fallujah and other places. This is not propaganda but a direct source from the people opposing democracy and their goal to destroy the West.

This is in their words....


http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/english.html

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Fallujah: the truth a

You already put that link up, EagleSmack. That it contradicts all of the intelligent analysis coming out of the Middle East and elsewhere doesn't make it the ultimate source you now. There are plenty of other web sites saying similar things.