Everything's Broken - latest Polievre youtube short

[The_Foxer]

Today is the day for BC to decriminalization hard drugs such as heroin and fentanyl, as well as crack and powder cocaine, methamphetamine and MDMA.

I just don't see how this can work. I worked in the Downtown east side for years and got to know a lot of semi functional drug addicts (and some not so functional ones). The thing is - for the most part and by and large these are people who've given up and have made peace with the life they live and will not change without a very strong external motivating factor. I mean - death isn't scaring these people off for heaven's sake. Every one of them has friends that died of bad drugs and overdoses and yet they keep going.

You have to have a carrot and stick approach. The threat of something dire (like being locked up without drugs and going cold turkey) combined with realistic alternatives (fully funded recovery programs using the best of the best techniques).

I don't want to use the word 'lazy' but it's sort of like that - addicts follow the path of least resistance which means keeping the status quo if they can and only changing if they have to. Make it so they have to and then give them an opportunity and you will get some results.

And even then the success rate is only something like 20 percent. Which is probably going to be about 21 percent more effective than this.

All you do by 'removing the stigma' is make it easier for them to maintain the status quo and eventually they will still get into bad drugs and killed. And fewer will seek help.

 

[petros]

I just don't see how this can work. I worked in the Downtown east side for years and got to know a lot of semi functional drug addicts (and some not so functional ones). The thing is - for the most part and by and large these are people who've given up and have made peace with the life they live and will not change without a very strong external motivating factor. I mean - death isn't scaring these people off for heaven's sake. Every one of them has friends that died of bad drugs and overdoses and yet they keep going.

You have to have a carrot and stick approach. The threat of something dire (like being locked up without drugs and going cold turkey) combined with realistic alternatives (fully funded recovery programs using the best of the best techniques).

I don't want to use the word 'lazy' but it's sort of like that - addicts follow the path of least resistance which means keeping the status quo if they can and only changing if they have to. Make it so they have to and then give them an opportunity and you will get some results.

And even then the success rate is only something like 20 percent. Which is probably going to be about 21 percent more effective than this.

All you do by 'removing the stigma' is make it easier for them to maintain the status quo and eventually they will still get into bad drugs and killed. And fewer will seek help.

Simply put, they are feral.

Youd never bring a feral cat or dog into your house because theyll shit and piss on the floor and tear things to pieces.

How do you re-domesticate a human?

 

[The_Foxer]

How do you re-domesticate a human?

It can be done. But - the single largest factor in whether it will be succesful by miles is how bad they want it. If they aren't motivated, there is zero chance of success.

By making it more 'acceptable' and 'easier' to be an addict, all they're doing is taking away motivation to change. That will lead to more deaths,

 

[bob the dog]

I just don't see how this can work. I worked in the Downtown east side for years and got to know a lot of semi functional drug addicts (and some not so functional ones). The thing is - for the most part and by and large these are people who've given up and have made peace with the life they live and will not change without a very strong external motivating factor. I mean - death isn't scaring these people off for heaven's sake. Every one of them has friends that died of bad drugs and overdoses and yet they keep going.

You have to have a carrot and stick approach. The threat of something dire (like being locked up without drugs and going cold turkey) combined with realistic alternatives (fully funded recovery programs using the best of the best techniques).

I don't want to use the word 'lazy' but it's sort of like that - addicts follow the path of least resistance which means keeping the status quo if they can and only changing if they have to. Make it so they have to and then give them an opportunity and you will get some results.

And even then the success rate is only something like 20 percent. Which is probably going to be about 21 percent more effective than this.

All you do by 'removing the stigma' is make it easier for them to maintain the status quo and eventually they will still get into bad drugs and killed. And fewer will seek help.

The most important thing that alcoholism and drug abuse does is to create a need for a bureaucracy to solve the issue. Without those people how many wonderful paying jobs would be lost.

Prisons need prisoners, schools need students, seniors home need seniors. The economic impact of a homeless person should not be underrated.

 

[petros]

By making it more 'acceptable' and 'easier' to be an addict, all they're doing is taking away motivation to change. That will lead to more deaths,

Maybe that's the point?

 

[The_Foxer]

The economic impact of a homeless person should not be underrated.

It is very true that there is a lot of money in poverty.

But they are shooting themselves in the foot here. When this fails to work and the next gov't gets in they'll have all the excuse in the world to cancel it and cut back drastically on those jobs because they failed and things got worse.

 

[petros]

The most important thing that alcoholism and drug abuse does is to create a need for a bureaucracy to solve the issue. Without those people how many wonderful paying jobs would be lost.

Prisons need prisoners, schools need students, seniors home need seniors. The economic impact of a homeless person should not be underrated.

Homelessness and addiction is a profitable industry.

 

[The_Foxer]

Maybe that's the point?

I can't even say. Either they have deluded themselves to the point where they believe this will work despite ALL the massive amounts of evidence to the contrary, or they have some species of ulterior motive that isn't immediately clear but can't be good.

 

[petros]

There is another angle. Let things get so bad that it strips away any compassion to the point people demand drastic actions be taken.

 

[The_Foxer]

There is another angle. Let things get so bad that it strips away any compassion to the point people demand drastic actions be taken.

Well i think that will be the result, but i can't see how it's desirable for them for it to be the intent. As bob was saying, there's a lot of money in keeping this problem going, having the industry collapse like that seems like it would negatively impact their jobs.

 

[petros]

Well i think that will be the result, but i can't see how it's desirable for them for it to be the intent. As bob was saying, there's a lot of money in keeping this problem going, having the industry collapse like that seems like it would negatively impact their jobs.

I know this. CUPE and BCGEU dont want to lose 3000 members in just one city in BC let alone all the other Health Districts.

 

[The_Foxer]

I know this. CUPE and BCGEU dont want to lose 3000 members in just one city in BC let alone all the other Health Districts.

That's true, and that's why this is a bit of a headscratcher for me.

You'd think theyd both be pushing for increases in funding for gov't run addiction rehab. Lots and lots of jobs there.

I don't know - maybe its the mental health issue. Lots of homeless drug addicts have mental health issues and perhaps they're worried if they try to push to treat the drug addiction they'll get stuck having to treat the mental health issues which are far less pleasant and far more expensive to treat.

 

[petros]

They have been but there are too many jaded types who will scream racism or God knows what. VPD and City Hall knows how to pimp those people.

An example.

In 2015 there were incidents of people in wheelchairs being robbed in Downtown Eastside Marios. In their infinite wisdom VPD put an undercover in a wheelchair at the corner of Columbia and E Hastings. They then did a news release of how the undercover was treated kindly, given money, offered food etc.

Awesome image polishing for VPD but they completely dropped the ball.

If that undercover was down there to sell their hydromorphone Rx to pay rent and eat because disabled are impoverished by the Provincal social safety net what would have been to outcome?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/undercover-vancouver-police-officer-mark-horsley-uncovers-kindness-in-downtown-eastside-1.3155360

 

[Taxslave2]

Today is the day for BC to decriminalization hard drugs such as heroin and fentanyl, as well as crack and powder cocaine, methamphetamine and MDMA. Illegal drugs will still be prohibited for youth under 18, on school grounds, at licensed child-care facilities and at airports.

What to know about B.C. decriminalizing possession of drugs for personal use — The Canadian Press

VANCOUVER - British Columbia is introducing a policy of decriminalization on Tuesday as part of what it says is an overall plan to prevent overdose deaths from illicit drugs.

apple.news

Problem #1 is that every druggie in Canada is going to wind up in BC. And our medical system will be forced to look after them.

 

[Taxslave2]

I just don't see how this can work. I worked in the Downtown east side for years and got to know a lot of semi functional drug addicts (and some not so functional ones). The thing is - for the most part and by and large these are people who've given up and have made peace with the life they live and will not change without a very strong external motivating factor. I mean - death isn't scaring these people off for heaven's sake. Every one of them has friends that died of bad drugs and overdoses and yet they keep going.

You have to have a carrot and stick approach. The threat of something dire (like being locked up without drugs and going cold turkey) combined with realistic alternatives (fully funded recovery programs using the best of the best techniques).

I don't want to use the word 'lazy' but it's sort of like that - addicts follow the path of least resistance which means keeping the status quo if they can and only changing if they have to. Make it so they have to and then give them an opportunity and you will get some results.

And even then the success rate is only something like 20 percent. Which is probably going to be about 21 percent more effective than this.

All you do by 'removing the stigma' is make it easier for them to maintain the status quo and eventually they will still get into bad drugs and killed. And fewer will seek help.

Lazy would be a good description of the government’s actions. There are no plans to impose stiffer penalties on dealers o importers. Or even try to weed them out. This is going to be much like when the dippers opened the gates at Essondale, and let the crazies out with no plan to support them afterwards, because “ they have a right to be free”.
I foresee a dramatic rise in crime as all the new druggies flood the province(mostly DES)and need to fuel their habit.

 

[Taxslave2]

It is very true that there is a lot of money in poverty.

But they are shooting themselves in the foot here. When this fails to work and the next gov't gets in they'll have all the excuse in the world to cancel it and cut back drastically on those jobs because they failed and things got worse.

Government inertia will prevent that. Government employees have a very strong union, and a lot of votes.

 

[The_Foxer]

There are no plans to impose stiffer penalties on dealers o importers. Or even try to weed them out.

I see what you did there. "weed' them out

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Problem #1 is that every druggie in Canada is going to wind up in BC. And our medical system will be forced to look after them.

How is that a problem?

 

[petros]

Problem #1 is that every druggie in Canada is going to wind up in BC. And our medical system will be forced to look after them.

SK is taking the opposite direction pumping money into mental health and recovery programs while giving more funding to cops stomp on dealers.

 

[Taxslave2]

SK is taking the opposite direction pumping money into mental health and recovery programs while giving more funding to cops stomp on dealers.

As it should be.