Electric shock: A new study found that EVs were more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at the end of 2022

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,908
1,770
113
Nov 8 (Reuters) - More than half of the U.S. and parts of Canada, home to around 180 million people, could fall short of electricity during extreme cold again this winter due to lacking natural gas infrastructure, the North American Electric Reliability Corp (NERC) said on Wednesday.

In its 2023-24 winter outlook, the regulatory authority warned that prolonged, wide-area cold snaps threaten the reliability of bulk power generation and availability of fuel supplies for natural gas-fired generation.
Even BC, which has traditionally exported power, is now a net importer. Even with Site C, which the dippers fought hard to end will not add sufficient power to meet political needs. Now we know why the dippers are working hard to shut down any industry, like pulp mills, and mines that use lots of power. They need it to fuel their expensive habits.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
110,099
11,708
113
Low Earth Orbit
Even BC, which has traditionally exported power, is now a net importer. Even with Site C, which the dippers fought hard to end will not add sufficient power to meet political needs. Now we know why the dippers are working hard to shut down any industry, like pulp mills, and mines that use lots of power. They need it to fuel their expensive habits.
You'd best hope it snows this winter.
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,908
1,770
113
Got lots of rain, and more coming. It would be smarter to stop the inflow of people to the province. We are not even remotely prepared for the massive population growth of the last few years, and worse, our politicians are oblivious to the problems they are creating.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,829
8,394
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
So these will come with subsidies still, & perhaps even more than already handed out at least initially…which is not sustainable in the long run until 2035, so those with the means to purchase an EV now get subsidized by those who can’t or won’t.
"I do believe governments have a very important role in helping to close that gap. Not forever, but for a period of time."

The real evidence of that is EV penetration in Quebec and B.C., which offer additional rebates to the $5,000 offered by the federal government, Hiscox said.

It’ll be interesting when the road tax on gasoline, propane, & diesel gets transferred to electrical utilities regardless of whether someone has a private vehicle or not, because that’s going to have to happen eventually. So those not in the market (as vehicle owners) or priced out of the market (of EV’s as the only option) will still get to subsidize EV owners ‘cuz that’s the Liberal thing to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,908
1,770
113
Why? Then youd really be screwed.
Too many of the people coming here are not here to work. They come here to die. We need industry that provides good paying stable jobs, not low pay part time changing diapers on someone else's grandparents and selling popcorn to tourists.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
110,099
11,708
113
Low Earth Orbit
Too many of the people coming here are not here to work. They come here to die. We need industry that provides good paying stable jobs, not low pay part time changing diapers on someone else's grandparents and selling popcorn to tourists.
Nobody is going there to die. That stopped ages ago. They go to Puerto Vallarta these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron in Regina

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,829
8,394
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Don't feel like compromising? OK, Mandatory V-8s running on leaded gas.
Leaded gas? Really? What does the free market want?
Dealers across the country (the Canadian one) have unsold EVs piling up on their lots because automakers overestimated consumer demand, made too many of them and ended up shipping the extras to dealerships whether the retailers wanted them or not. There are now too many EVs and not enough customers.

Ford and General Motors have announced huge reductions in EV production because consumer demand just isn’t there.

Admittedly, the third quarter of 2023 was good for EV sales in Canada. Of nearly 500,000 new vehicles sold from July through September, about one in 10 (10%) was an EV.

The problem is, one quarter does not a trend make. The other problem is, most of those EV sales were in two regions — the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle and greater Vancouver, i.e. places with higher-than-average incomes and milder winters.

Electrics are still not practical in most of the country, nor for average Canadians.

(Americans have more warm-weather markets than Canada, they have been ahead of us on the EV curve. They’ve had periods in which electric sales surged, but for most of the past year-and-a-half, EV sales in the U.S. have flat-lined also)

Most headlines about Tuesday’s announcement regarding electric vehicle (EV) sales in Canada had pretty much the same theme: Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault announced that 20% of all new vehicles sold in Canada “must be” EVs by 2026.

That’s at least double the share now. So, what is Guilbeault’s strategy for pulling off this radical transformation? He plans to reduce the time consumers must wait for delivery of electric cars. According to the brains trust in Ottawa, buyers are shying away from EVs because they have to wait too long for them to show up???
Contrary to Liberal hype, EVs not only cost more to buy, they cost more to maintain and repair. Their range between charges is poor in the winter and recharging times are long. Last year, our federal Natural Resources department even admitted the push for all new vehicle sales to be EVs by 2035 would make cars and light trucks too expensive for 25% of Canadians.
1703559632758.jpegWhen it is no longer possible to buy internal-combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, one-quarter of Canadians will just have to go without cars. That doesn’t seem to bother Guilbeault, Trudeau or their pals in the environmental movement.
1703559664206.jpeg
(Yes, it is a Christmas Day Miracle, as the Liberals have jumped up in recent polls)

Consumer Reports magazine recently found EVs are 73% less reliable than gasoline and diesel vehicles. Because they are so much heavier, they chew through tires 40% faster. When they are in collisions, they cause more damage and are more expensive to repair, so are costlier to insure.
1703559840725.png
Contrary to Liberal bumph, over their lifetimes, they are not cheaper than internal combustion engine vehicles.
1703559931991.jpeg
When it closed at midnight on Christmas Eve, e-petition 4701 became the most signed e-petition in Canadian history which ultimately means nothing at all. Having received as many signatures as it has, the government is required to present an official response to the House of Commons within 45 sitting days to be voted down by the non-coalition coalition that’s definitely not a coalition-type coalition government.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
56,064
7,311
113
Washington DC
The problem is, one quarter does not a trend make. The other problem is, most of those EV sales were in two regions — the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle and greater Vancouver, i.e. places with higher-than-average incomes and milder winters.

Electrics are still not practical in most of the country, nor for average Canadians.
That's what I like about you. You don't ignore information that's contrary to your pre-loaded position.

Most of the Men of Westernesse would swear with their last breath that not one single Canadian wants an EV and it's all an EEE-vil plot by the Commie Nazi Soshulist Libruls to DESTROY CANADUH!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Taxslave2

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
5,789
3,637
113
Edmonton
The battery doesn't matter so much in hybrids. When the battery dies, the car will run on the gas engine. You won't get the mileage a hybrid gets, but it will be close to what a gas model of the same car will get.
This is why going EV is stupid considering what we have available now. I rented a Toyota hybrid & it was great! I loved it & would consider purchasing one because the mileage was phenomenal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
5,789
3,637
113
Edmonton
That's what I like about you. You don't ignore information that's contrary to your pre-loaded position.

Most of the Men of Westernesse would swear with their last breath that not one single Canadian wants an EV and it's all an EEE-vil plot by the Commie Nazi Soshulist Libruls to DESTROY CANADUH!
Yup cuz it's mostly true. It's also true of Americans since manufacturers are now reducing making EV's cuz they're not popular and Dealerships have literally thousands sitting on their lots that they can't sell. Most of the public either see it as a stupid idea since charging them (if they can even find a charging station that actually works efficiently) OR they can't afford to buy one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,829
8,394
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
That's what I like about you. You don't ignore information that's contrary to your pre-loaded position.
The Tesla Model Y came out. It’s not like it was the only EV sold, but it’s probably the reason that sales numbers in the 3rd quarter of 2023 where as good as they where. Cool car, and it spiked sales for that quarter. The long range version starts at about $70,000 in Canadian Pesos.
Most of the Men of Westernesse would swear with their last breath that not one single Canadian wants an EV and it's all an EEE-vil plot by the Commie Nazi Soshulist Libruls to DESTROY CANADUH!
I’ve got a friend with a Tesla Model3. It’s a cool toy, acceleration like you’re shot out of a gun, very cool. It’s not his “only”. Vehicle that he “has” to rely on. It’s a fast toy that he bought by choice (and got every Gov’t subsidy available to do so), to replace a Japanese Supercar in his personal (or business) fleet of vehicles.

We as taxpayers subsidized his replacement of one supercar with another. He’s a VERY Bright Guy!!

The guy above also buys firetrucks (plural) on a whim to roll the dice on resale, on the side, so not exactly the “average” Canadian but the first one I know personally to “happily” own an EV.

(I have a Nephew that bought one 10yrs ago and had it for less than a year, and ditched it before the end of its first winter, but that’s another story, and not a “typical” Canadian car-buyer story)

Yes, EV’s can be cool, as a second vehicle, purchased by choice, but not forced as the “only” choice available (as of 2035 we’re told) for those of means who own multiple other vehicles keeping the EV in the realm of a rich man’s government subsidized toy.

To own an EV, in this part of Canada, unless your wallet is “very-very fat”…you almost need one of your other vehicles to be a diesel powered puller and have access to a trailer capable of loading the EV to self-rescue your own EV if your wallet is only in the “very fat” category.

Eventually the technology I’m assuming for EV’s will catch up to ICE vehicles as well as the price point…& then for the average Canadian outside the GTA or Inner-Vancouver postal codes, without government (=taxpayers) subsidies, but it’s not there yet. Forcing consumers towards EV’s regardless of their cost and lack of both reliability and range compared ICE vehicles by government mandate doesn’t seem like a market driven decision especially while also removing the alternative (that’s cheaper, more reliability, with a longer range, and much more climate appropriate).

Let consumers decide what they want to spend their own money on, and when EV’s make sense for the majority of people, they’ll willingly buy them. That’s not what’s currently happening though. That’s my pre-loaded position.
Yup cuz it's mostly true. It's also true of Americans since manufacturers are now reducing making EV's cuz they're not popular and Dealerships have literally thousands sitting on their lots that they can't sell. Most of the public either see it as a stupid idea since charging them (if they can even find a charging station that actually works efficiently) OR they can't afford to buy one.
Both EV’s & ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) vehicles have their advantages and disadvantages. Currently, in our nation with its climate and geographically spread out nature, at least in the Westernesse portion, for most people, the ICE Vehicles advantages outweigh the EV’s disadvantages…compared to the EV’s advantages outweighing the ICE vehicles disadvantages.

When the above changes, so will the opinions and spending preferences.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
110,099
11,708
113
Low Earth Orbit
The Tesla Model Y came out. It’s not like it was the only EV sold, but it’s probably the reason that sales numbers in the 3rd quarter of 2023 where as good as they where. Cool car, and it spiked sales for that quarter. The long range version starts at about $70,000 in Canadian Pesos.

I’ve got a friend with a Tesla Model3. It’s a cool toy, acceleration like you’re shot out of a gun, very cool. It’s not his “only”. Vehicle that he “has” to rely on. It’s a fast toy that he bought by choice (and got every Gov’t subsidy available to do so), to replace a Japanese Supercar in his personal (or business) fleet of vehicles.

We as taxpayers subsidized his replacement of one supercar with another. He’s a VERY Bright Guy!!

The guy above also buys firetrucks (plural) on a whim to roll the dice on resale, on the side, so not exactly the “average” Canadian but the first one I know personally to “happily” own an EV.

(I have a Nephew that bought one 10yrs ago and had it for less than a year, and ditched it before the end of its first winter, but that’s another story, and not a “typical” Canadian car-buyer story)

Yes, EV’s can be cool, as a second vehicle, purchased by choice, but not forced as the “only” choice available (as of 2035 we’re told) for those of means who own multiple other vehicles keeping the EV in the realm of a rich man’s government subsidized toy.

To own an EV, in this part of Canada, unless your wallet is “very-very fat”…you almost need one of your other vehicles to be a diesel powered puller and have access to a trailer capable of loading the EV to self-rescue your own EV if your wallet is only in the “very fat” category.

Eventually the technology I’m assuming for EV’s will catch up to ICE vehicles as well as the price point…& then for the average Canadian outside the GTA or Inner-Vancouver postal codes, without government (=taxpayers) subsidies, but it’s not there yet. Forcing consumers towards EV’s regardless of their cost and lack of both reliability and range compared ICE vehicles by government mandate doesn’t seem like a market driven decision especially while also removing the alternative (that’s cheaper, more reliability, with a longer range, and much more climate appropriate).

Let consumers decide what they want to spend their own money on, and when EV’s make sense for the majority of people, they’ll willingly buy them. That’s not what’s currently happening though. That’s my pre-loaded position.

Both EV’s & ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) vehicles have their advantages and disadvantages. Currently, in our nation with its climate and geographically spread out nature, at least in the Westernesse portion, for most people, the ICE Vehicles advantages outweigh the EV’s disadvantages…compared to the EV’s advantages outweighing the ICE vehicles disadvantages.

When the above changes, so will the opinions and spending preferences.
It's time for a new vehicle pour moi in the 1st quarter. What it will be for propulsion is yet to be decided. 450-500km range would acceptable but 900-1000 would be better. Half breed? Gasoline? All electric? Hydrogen?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,829
8,394
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
It's time for a new vehicle pour moi in the 1st quarter. What it will be for propulsion is yet to be decided. 450-500km range would acceptable but 900-1000 would be better. Half breed? Gasoline? All electric? Hydrogen?
At this point, either ICE or Hybrid have infrastructure in place, and the Hybrid will probably have rebates.

Hydrogen Infrastructure and storage are still issues currently from what I understand, but the first Hydrogen Motorcycle is out on the market already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,829
8,394
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
It'll be in Regina in 2024.
One of my concerns is the old Beta/VHS dilemma like we witnessed with the whole Propane powered vehicles in days gone by now. There’s going to be winners & losers….& the wrong gamble can be expensive…even without the whims of wokeness via Gov’t mandate decrees from above.

In the Beta/VHS war, Beta machines essentially became worthless overnight. The push for propane vehicles tanked with very limited options for fueling now. I know you’ll do your homework & govern Yourself accordingly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dixie Cup

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
110,099
11,708
113
Low Earth Orbit
One of my concerns is the old Beta/VHS dilemma like we witnessed with the whole Propane powered vehicles in days gone by now. There’s going to be winners & losers….& the wrong gamble can be expensive…even without the whims of wokeness via Gov’t mandate decrees from above.

In the Beta/VHS war, Beta machines essentially became worthless overnight. The push for propane vehicles tanked with very limited options for fueling now. I know you’ll do your homework & govern Yourself accordingly.
Who says I'm sticking around here?
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,908
1,770
113
Nobody is going there to die. That stopped ages ago. They go to Puerto Vallarta these days.
Oh yes they are. That is what we have to offer. The average age is around 67 and most of the people that move here are 70+.WE are not building all these retirement homes for island residents.