Electric shock: A new study found that EVs were more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at the end of 2022

Ron in Regina

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When I have had to replace my battery in my car its in the neigbourhood of $200 dollars depending on what type I want not $15,000.
I was thinking about the story that I read a couple days ago:
A Canadian driver from Vancouver who owned a 2022 EV model was told that a replacement battery would cost more than the vehicle itself due to some suspected damage.

The 2022 IONIQ 5 runs for $55,000, and the replacement battery would’ve cost over $60,000 — more than the car itself!
Or
Etc….
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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I never thought $15K would be a low estimate. Geez.
You don’t wanna be the second owner on an EV that needs a battery, without you having some kind of warranty.

I don’t assume there’s gonna be much of a market for used EV’s beyond the first and maybe second owner… and then they get scrapped. Without a fresh battery they’re worth almost nothing… sustainably speaking that is.
 
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petros

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You don’t wanna be the second owner on an EV that needs a battery, without you having some kind of warranty.

I don’t assume there’s gonna be much of a market for used EV’s beyond the first and maybe second owner… and then they get scrapped. Without a fresh battery they’re worth almost nothing… sustainably speaking that is.
According to the cabbie we used last weekend its $1200 to have a Prius half breed battery rebuilt at a local shop.
 
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Ron in Regina

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According to the cabbie we used last weekend its $1200 to have a Prius half breed battery rebuilt at a local shop.
1703076042620.jpeg Faulty batteries can be fixed, but it's not always straightforward. If the battery is out of warranty, there are third-party EV battery specialists. The easiest batteries to repair are air-cooled ones.

Liquid-cooled batteries, which are in the majority of electric vehicles, are more involved as the coolant needs to be emptied and re-injected into the system before and after, and requires specialist equipment which takes longer and costs more.
 
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petros

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View attachment 20449 Faulty batteries can be fixed, but it's not always straightforward. If the battery is out of warranty, there are third-party EV battery specialists. The easiest batteries to repair are air-cooled ones.

Liquid-cooled batteries, which are in the majority of electric vehicles, are more involved as the coolant needs to be emptied and re-injected into the system before and after, and requires specialist equipment which takes longer and costs more.
Most of the Battery’s cells are damaged
Recommended solution: Hybrid battery reconditioning

Cost: $890-$1890

If most of your battery’s cells have been damaged, the recommended solution is to replace them with rejuvenated cells. This process is called hybrid battery rejuvenation/reconditioning.

Battery reconditioning is done by charging and balancing a hybrid battery’s cells. Depending on the extent of the damage, hybrid cell reconditioning or rejuvenation will cost you anywhere between $890 and $1890.

 
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Ron in Regina

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Without knowing enough about these batteries on my end, more learning needs to be done upon which batteries are liquid cooled (more complicated and expensive) and which ones are air cooled (less complicated and easier to rebuild).
It’s probably no accident that the taxi companies using a Prius Hybrid (not full EV) with an air cooled battery.
 
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petros

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Without knowing enough about these batteries on my end, more learning needs to be done upon which batteries are liquid cooled (more complicated and expensive) and which ones are air cooled (less complicated and easier to rebuild).
It’s probably no accident that the taxi companies using a Prius Hybrid (not full EV) with an air cooled battery.
The batteries currently in use are antiquated.

Graphene Aluminum Ion batteries are coming. Its this tech that I'm waiting for. It'll easily run the heavy iron. Why the Feds funded lithium is bizarre.

 
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Ron in Regina

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The Liberals don’t like to characterize their policies as causing potentially irreparable divisions between Eastern and Western Canada. Yet nothing screams “Laurentian elite looking out for their own at the expense of everyone else” quite like the recent press conference announcing the government’s new Electric Vehicle Availability Standard.

On Tuesday, about a dozen Liberal MPs braved gridlocked traffic to make their way to George Brown College in downtown Toronto, where senior party members extolled the virtues of phasing out gas-powered vehicles by 2035.

Have a sense of déjà vu? That’s because the Liberals already announced their plan to mandate that 20 per cent of all new vehicle sales will be electric by 2026, expanding to 60 per cent in 2030 and 100 per cent in 2035.

What was billed as “a really exciting development for the future” on Tuesday was really just the publication of the finalized standard, which isn’t a whole lot different than last year’s draft regulations.

But the Liberals are not the sort of folk who pass on an opportunity for performative pageantry. Especially when it fits with what seems like a deliberate strategy to flood the airwaves with climate announcements to make it look like the government really has this file under control.

And so, Toronto MP Julie Dabrusin, Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault, Treasury Board President Anita Anand and Filomena Tassi, the minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, were all trotted out, not so much to share new information with the public, but to convince Canadians they are saving the planet from certain doom and creating jobs for generations to come.

Unlike the evil Tories — or, as Guilbeault calls them, the “MAGA party of Pierre Poilievre” —(???)— the Liberals, we were repeatedly told, are “skating to where the puck is going.” In other words: EVs are the future, and the government is doing everything possible to ensure the electric dream becomes a reality as soon as possible…or even before it’s possible.

They’re doing this for our own good, you see. The free market is just too slow to acknowledge the inevitable, and we’re just too stupid to figure it out for ourselves.

Not mentioned is that companies are switching production to EVs, not because they’re superior or more economic, but because governments like Canada’s are mandating sales targets and subsidizing production.

The most striking thing about Tuesday’s “announcement”: four Central-Canadian MPs bragging that dictating what consumers can and cannot buy is actually being done for their benefit, and about spending tens of billions to support jobs in southern Ontario.

(To be fair, the government is spending vast sums of money to create an “end-to-end EV supply chain in Canada.” Anand, the MP from Oakville, touted the $295 million they’re spending to help Ford retool its assembly plant in her riding. Tassi, an MP from Hamilton, Ont., boasted about creating “jobs for my great-great grandchildren and their great-great grandchildren” in southern Ontario)

Of course, it’s going to be far less economic to operate an EV in Alberta and Saskatchewan once the federal government’s clean electricity regulations kick in and the cost of energy goes through the roof…but so what?

None of this really matters to a party that’s only competitive in B.C.’s Lower Mainland and east of the Manitoba-Ontario border, though. As Guilbeault made clear with his repeated partisan attacks against the Conservatives — whose “official position,” he erroneously claimed, “is that climate change does not exist” — the government’s climate policies are primarily a political calculation.

And the generous support for the auto sector will be cold comfort to the western-based oil and gas industry that produces the gasoline the government is looking to phase out — an industry that, just a week ago, was hit with a sector-specific emissions cap.

And if Western-Canadians don’t like it, well, as Rural Economic Development Minister Gudie Hutchings said a couple months ago, “Perhaps they need to elect more Liberals in the Prairies.” Or perhaps it’s time to stop electing a government that plays the politics of division.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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They’re doing this for our own good, you see. The free market is just too slow to acknowledge the inevitable, and we’re just too stupid to figure it out for ourselves.
"A man's got to know his limitations. . ."
--Clint Eastwood as Rowdy Yates, Rawhide

"A man's got to know his limitations. . ."
--Clint Eastwood as Harry Callahan, The Dead Pool
 

Ron in Regina

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“I have to question whether or not Steven Guilbeault is trying to cause riots,” Smith (Danielle Smith, Alberta’s Premier) said. “Imagine two years from now when somebody goes into a dealership and is told, ‘Sorry, our quota of gas-powered vehicles is sold for this year. Your only option is an electric vehicle. And, by the way, we haven’t been able to ramp up production enough to get those either. So here you are on a wait list.’ That’s the reality that is facing us in 2026 if they go ahead with these things.”

What’s driving this frenzy of central planning? I put it to Smith that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Guilbeault and the Liberal cabinet are captured by climate alarmism, that they’ve never heard or paid attention to the numerous credible economists and climate scientists who say climate change is an issue but just one issue among many big ones, and that the slow and gradual warming of the Earth we’ve seen in the past 100 years can be handled with prudent adaptation, not radical authoritarian measures.

While interest in vehicles powered by alternate fuels increased 15 per cent compared to last year, searches for electric vehicles only account for less than three per cent of overall searches on AutoTrader this year.

The top reasons Canadians gave for refusing to consider going electric are all economic.

“EV prices generally tend to be 15 to 20 per cent higher than a comparable gas-powered vehicle,” said AutoTrader editor-in-chief Jodi Lai.

“That extra cost is not something that a lot of Canadians can stomach right now.”

Forty per cent of Canadians said vehicle prices are the main obstacle to purchasing an EV, 24 per cent blamed interest rates, and 13 per cent said inflation, according to AutoTrader.

Although federal government incentives provide up to $5,000 (of someone’s money) towards the purchase of battery-electric, hydrogen fuel cell and longer-range plug-in hybrid vehicles, the rebate does not cover enough for many Canadians.

So those can’t or won’t buy an electric vehicle can subsidize those who can or are able to? That sounds…liberal?

The gap between EV and gas-powered vehicle prices in some models makes a huge difference for many people. For instance, the Hyundai gas-powered 2023 KONA starts at around $25,000, while the same model electric price begins at over $47,000, etc…

In 2026, one in five vehicles sold in Canada will have to be electric or a longer-range plug-in hybrid. That increases to three in five vehicles in 2030 and that number keeps rising to eventually reach 100 per cent in 2035.

Will the subsidies last until 2035 or beyond, or are they for those that can afford & want one instead of being eventually forced to own one???

Guilbeault said in a press conference that the new standard will encourage automakers to make more battery-powered cars and trucks available in Canada.

Despite some “technical issues” some Canadian EV users have experienced due to the harsh weather, EV technology is going to “potentially” improve, and the batteries will have less volatility in colder weather. Oh, ok….potentially improve. Phew!! Close call, but sold me now!!?
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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“I have to question whether or not Steven Guilbeault is trying to cause riots,” Smith (Danielle Smith, Alberta’s Premier) said. “Imagine two years from now when somebody goes into a dealership and is told, ‘Sorry, our quota of gas-powered vehicles is sold for this year. Your only option is an electric vehicle. And, by the way, we haven’t been able to ramp up production enough to get those either. So here you are on a wait list.’ That’s the reality that is facing us in 2026 if they go ahead with these things.”
Albertans riot about stuff like that? OK. GMC Options Packages Matter, I guess.
 

Ron in Regina

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Did you read the linked article? Just curious. Canadians, many of us, are being chewed away at financially, and those with the least financial safety margins were the most affected first….& then those are still left standing with the least financial safety margins where the next fall, and so on, and so forth…the electric cars thing it’s just another tax for all intents and purposes, on top of the carbon tax, on top of the clean fuel standard tax, on top of the clean electrical standard tax, & these taxes are taxed, on top of inflation, on top of increasing interest rates, on top of many other things. It’s tough times everywhere.

People are going to start dropping financially. The Alberta premier was speculating about what it would look like in about two years. Every year, just in environmental fees and taxes that are guaranteed to increase annually on April fools day, are other living expenses that are going up exponentially.

Canadians having to choose between food and heating their homes sounds melodramatic, but I’m seeing it around me. That’s the riots Danielle Smith is speculating about in the near future. El Niño is a blessing this year just in home heating costs, and this has little to do with GMC options packages.

Personally, I am finding this year, much more challenging financially than the year before, and I’m finding last year was much more financially challenging than the year before it…& I’m in a better spot than many.
 
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Ron in Regina

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Different nation with different issues. Don’t want to come across as just a grumpy Gus but Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault said in April the government’s spending commitment on climate change is north of $200 billion — so far.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux said last year that when you factor in the negative impact of the carbon tax on the economy, 60% of households paying it are already paying hundreds of dollars more in carbon taxes annually than they get back in climate action incentive payments.

The hundreds of dollars more in carbon taxes (plural) annually, that’s the spread and not the total annually…for those that actually see one of these “climate action initiative payments” while the rest of us just pay.

In some provinces, that will increase to 80%, as the carbon tax increases from its current $65 per tonne of greenhouse gas emissions to $170 per tonne in 2030, guaranteed to increase every April Fools Day (you can’t make this shit up) regardless of what’s happening with our economy.

There’s the cost of upgrading the electricity grid — with the heavy lifting to be done by provincial taxpayers and ratepayers, because where else does the money come from?

(The taxpayers are the ratepayers, and the ratepayers are the taxpayers, because these carbon taxes are on our utilities and not “just” the fuel in our vehicles)

That will be necessary to handle the increased demand for electricity, due to mandated federal electric vehicle sales targets, rising from 20% of the market in 2026 to 100% in 2035, regardless of what the market wants because big daddy knows better, etc…

Because EVs are more expensive, less reliable and have less range than traditional gas-powered vehicles, costs to buyers are being subsidized by federal and some provincial governments — paid by taxpayers, whether they happen to be an EV owner or not, because where else would the money come from?

Setting up a supply chain for EVs is costing taxpayers money, as well as establishing a national charging system for them, plus the costs faced by EV owners for installing home charging stations.

True, some of this money will create new jobs (in select places, in select political ridings) and tax revenue but that’s offset by the government downgrading Canada’s oil and gas sector, costing our economy billions of dollars annually, even though, as the PBO noted, Canada’s emissions — 1.6% of the global total — aren’t enough to materially impact climate change…so…we are foisting this upon ourselves because selfies? The Future right to lecture others about the climate (?) because I thought we were already doing that?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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Did you read the linked article? Just curious. Canadians, many of us, are being chewed away at financially, and those with the least financial safety margins were the most affected first….& then those are still left standing with the least financial safety margins where the next fall, and so on, and so forth…the electric cars thing it’s just another tax for all intents and purposes, on top of the carbon tax, on top of the clean fuel standard tax, on top of the clean electrical standard tax, & these taxes are taxed, on top of inflation, on top of increasing interest rates, on top of many other things. It’s tough times everywhere.

People are going to start dropping financially. The Alberta premier was speculating about what it would look like in about two years. Every year, just in environmental fees and taxes that are guaranteed to increase annually on April fools day, are other living expenses that are going up exponentially.

Canadians having to choose between food and heating their homes sounds melodramatic, but I’m seeing it around me. That’s the riots Danielle Smith is speculating about in the near future. El Niño is a blessing this year just in home heating costs, and this has little to do with GMC options packages.

Personally, I am finding this year, much more challenging financially than the year before, and I’m finding last year was much more financially challenging than the year before it…& I’m in a better spot than many.
Those are very serious issues, and need to be addressed by all levels of government.

Do you think Premier Smith's comment moved that conversation forward? Do you think that questioning whether Gilbeault was trying to cause riots did anything about the serious issues you bring up?

I am so bloody tired of performative assholes imputing deep, dark motives to their political opponents. I remember when John McCain was taking questions from the crowd at an event, and some woman claimed Obama was not American and imputed various EEE-vil motives to him. McCain said "Ma'am, Barack Obama is a good American and loves his country. He and I just disagree on what's best for the country." It was a shining moment from a man so inherently decent, it's a wonder he ever got as far as he did in politics.
 
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petros

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Those are very serious issues, and need to be addressed by all levels of government.

Do you think Premier Smith's comment moved that conversation forward? Do you think that questioning whether Gilbeault was trying to cause riots did anything about the serious issues you bring up?

I am so bloody tired of performative assholes imputing deep, dark motives to their political opponents. I remember when John McCain was taking questions from the crowd at an event, and some woman claimed Obama was not American and imputed various EEE-vil motives to him. McCain said "Ma'am, Barack Obama is a good American and loves his country. He and I just disagree on what's best for the country." It was a shining moment from a man so inherently decent, it's a wonder he ever got as far as he did in politics.
What do you know about Guilbeault?
 

bob the dog

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Did you read the linked article? Just curious. Canadians, many of us, are being chewed away at financially, and those with the least financial safety margins were the most affected first….& then those are still left standing with the least financial safety margins where the next fall, and so on, and so forth…the electric cars thing it’s just another tax for all intents and purposes, on top of the carbon tax, on top of the clean fuel standard tax, on top of the clean electrical standard tax, & these taxes are taxed, on top of inflation, on top of increasing interest rates, on top of many other things. It’s tough times everywhere.

People are going to start dropping financially. The Alberta premier was speculating about what it would look like in about two years. Every year, just in environmental fees and taxes that are guaranteed to increase annually on April fools day, are other living expenses that are going up exponentially.

Canadians having to choose between food and heating their homes sounds melodramatic, but I’m seeing it around me. That’s the riots Danielle Smith is speculating about in the near future. El Niño is a blessing this year just in home heating costs, and this has little to do with GMC options packages.

Personally, I am finding this year, much more challenging financially than the year before, and I’m finding last year was much more financially challenging than the year before it…& I’m in a better spot than many.
Abuse of power would rank high on the list of root causes resulting in a transition from a capitalist economy to what I call a captive society. Taxpayers just pay. Canada is not better off than it was 50 years ago. And there is no tradition to this nonsense like they would like you to believe.
 
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