Eight teenage girls charged with murder in stabbing death of 59-year-old Toronto man: police

Ron in Regina

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A letter? For a first offense of murder? The judges would find that a little harsh....
Those 16 at the time of the offence and older could potentially be sentenced as adults… potentially, depending on the severity of the crime. That’s a big maybe but it’s a potential maybe.

Those 15 years and 364 days old at the time of the offence are guaranteed to get that slap on the wrist.
 
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Jinentonix

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I think too many people on the left confuse progressive with permissive. I mean really, too many kids quickly learn that there's no longer any real consequences for their actions.
My parents tried the non-corporal approach and it's a joke. Time out? :LOL: Yeah right, and if I don't then what? A longer time out that I won't abide by? Being grounded was another amusing one. I remember when I was "grounded" from watching TV. That worked real well, After school I'd go to my buddy's across the street and we'd watch TV there until supper time. And even at home I was still allowed to watch whatever my parents were watching so "ouch" no real consequences there. Even a regular grounding didn't do much. My bedroom was on the ground floor. So what if I get caught, they're going to ground me even harder?

I tell ya though, when they changed tactics and the ol' wooden spoon came out, that got my fucking attention. :LOL:
 

Taxslave2

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Those 16 at the time of the offence and older could potentially be sentenced as adults… potentially, depending on the severity of the crime. That’s a big maybe but it’s a potential maybe.

Those 15 years and 364 days old at the time of the offence are guaranteed to get that slap on the wrist.
Could said slap be done by a sharp axe?
 

Ron in Regina

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Could said slap be done by a sharp axe?
Or whatever implements were used on the 59-year-old buy these 8 juveniles?

The young offenders act states that the maximum penalty (absolute maximum) is seven years with half with that being spent rehabilitating in the community…. So that means maximum incarceration is 3 1/2 years minus remand time which counts for at least double time.
 

Dixie Cup

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harrylee

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Or whatever implements were used on the 59-year-old buy these 8 juveniles?

The young offenders act states that the maximum penalty (absolute maximum) is seven years with half with that being spent rehabilitating in the community…. So that means maximum incarceration is 3 1/2 years minus remand time which counts for at least double time.
And we will never know who they are or what possessed them to do it.
 

spaminator

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Swarming murder victim's family wants adult treatment for youths
Author of the article:Joe Warmington
Published Jan 19, 2023 • 3 minute read

Ken Lee’s heinous swarming homicide, which saw eight teenage girls charged with second-degree murder, is the perfect example of everything that is wrong with the Youth Criminal Justice Act.


But now the 59-year-old’s family is asking media to focus on how the system could use what happened in Ken’s slaying to make it right.


“I am hoping that you will write about the flaws of the Youth Criminal Justice Act as we head to the next chapter of this story,” said family spokesperson Eric Shum. “It protects the criminal youths and not the victims or the public.”

He’s 100% right.

In this case, and in most cases involving violent offenders under 18, the youths accused are protected, shielded and coddled. Meanwhile, the victim is just as dead as he or she would be had it been an adult who committed the act.

Ken Lee is a prime example.




On Dec. 18, 2022, he was in a parkette on York St. minding his own business with his girlfriend Erica when eight teenage girls allegedly robbed Erica of her bottle booze.

After intervening, it was later determined, Ken was left bleeding profusely as a result of a stab wound allegedly suffered when surrounded by the pack of girls who ranged from 13 to 16.

He died soon after.

The family suffered a profound loss.

“Ken was a kind soul with a heart of gold,” said Shum. “He was not in the system due to alcohol or drug abuse. He was a man with pride who had fallen and wanted to learn to stand up on his own knowing that he always had his family behind him.”

Shum’s wife Helen has previously called Ken a “hero” for trying to protect his female friend from being robbed.


Meanwhile, the accused girls, who did not know each other and are under probe for possibly being summoned on social media to partake in a night of wilding events to post on video sharing platforms, were later arrested. The charges against them have not been tested in court.

But in a strange way, even charged with murder, they are getting a better deal than they would if they were 18 where the public would get to know who they are, what they look like and what trouble they may have been in before.

In this case, no one is allowed to know anything about them. With one already released on bail and the others having hearings this month, there is a ban on their identities being publicized.

We don’t know who they are. Shum would like that to change.


“In one of the declaration principles of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the youth justice system is intended to protect the public. How is the Act protecting the public if we don’t know who these perpetrators are and why they are released on bail?” asked Shum. “As a parent, my question to the lawmakers who wrote the Youth Criminal Justice Act is how are you protecting my child if the perpetrator cannot be named and she could be in my child’s school or class?”

These are excellent questions that require answers. But those answers likely will not come. This system is in desperate need of reform.

“For serious crimes, these perpetrators should not have any privacy rights or bail,” said Shum. “The public should be aware of who these individuals are to protect themselves. The perpetrators must be named in order to bring forth more victims, witness and evidence. I don’t believe I have to remind the public of recent individuals who were given bail and they went on to commit more offences.”

He’s right again, but there is no political will to do it.

In some ways, these girls have hit the lottery because, if convicted, they will have access to higher education, counselling and treatment, and emerge from incarceration ready for freedom with their whole lives ahead of them.

For Ken Lee there will be no second chances.

jwarmington@postmedia.com
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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What would you suggest? Do away with the distinction? I guess we could put that Virginia six-year-old in prison for 20 years on an attempted murder/assault with a deadly weapon beef.
 

Ron in Regina

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What would you suggest? Do away with the distinction? I guess we could put that Virginia six-year-old in prison for 20 years on an attempted murder/assault with a deadly weapon beef.
Maybe….maybe the 16yr olds might see adult sentences (sort of) in Canada, but served in youth facilities until their legally adults to get for the balance of the sentence…maybe…but not the others. I think the magic number is 16… but I could be wrong. I often am. I might be thinking of the old “young offenders act” and not its replacement being the “youth criminal justice act”…though.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Maybe….maybe the 16yr olds might see adult sentences (sort of) in Canada, but served in youth facilities until their legally adults to get for the balance of the sentence…maybe…but not the others. I think the magic number is 16… but I could be wrong. I often am. I might be thinking of the old “young offenders act” and not its replacement being the “youth criminal justice act”…though.
We're more flexible here. Some states execute down to 14. Used to be 10, but the Kenyan Muslim Soshulists on the Supreme Court shot that down.

Always have the option of trying a kid as an adult, limits on that vary by state.

We've had kids as young as 4 shooting people.
 

Ron in Regina

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A key principle of youth sentencing is that a sentence must be proportionate to the seriousness of the offence and the degree of responsibility of the young person. In other words, the sentence should fit the seriousness of the crime and take into account the maturity of the young person involved and the conditions under which the crime was committed.

While in most cases judges impose one of the youth sentencing options in the YCJA, the Act does allow judges to impose an adult sentence on a youth who is found guilty of a serious offence and was 14 years of age or older when the crime was committed. In fact, prosecutors are obligated to consider seeking an adult sentence when a youth is found guilty of murder, attempted murder, manslaughter or aggravated sexual assault. However, the Act allows provinces to raise the age at which this obligation applies to 15 or 16.

When a judge decides to impose an adult sentence, the Criminal Codepenalties for adult offenders are applied to the youth. This can include mandatory minimum penalties and sentences of up to life imprisonment. However, no portion of either an adult or youth sentence can be served in an adult prison while the youth is still under the age of 18.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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A key principle of youth sentencing is that a sentence must be proportionate to the seriousness of the offence and the degree of responsibility of the young person. In other words, the sentence should fit the seriousness of the crime and take into account the maturity of the young person involved and the conditions under which the crime was committed.

While in most cases judges impose one of the youth sentencing options in the YCJA, the Act does allow judges to impose an adult sentence on a youth who is found guilty of a serious offence and was 14 years of age or older when the crime was committed. In fact, prosecutors are obligated to consider seeking an adult sentence when a youth is found guilty of murder, attempted murder, manslaughter or aggravated sexual assault. However, the Act allows provinces to raise the age at which this obligation applies to 15 or 16.

When a judge decides to impose an adult sentence, the Criminal Codepenalties for adult offenders are applied to the youth. This can include mandatory minimum penalties and sentences of up to life imprisonment. However, no portion of either an adult or youth sentence can be served in an adult prison while the youth is still under the age of 18.
What, no 14-year-olds getting raped in prison to laugh at?

See, this is why y'all're so surly all the time. You never get to have a chuckle.
 

spaminator

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Girls accused in swarming murder yawn and snicker in juvenile court
Seven of eight girls charged with the murder of a homeless man appeared in court to hear the Crown's case ahead of their bail hearings

Author of the article:Michele Mandel
Published Jan 20, 2023 • 3 minute read

Some of the girls smirked; some of them yawned. Some looked tense; some looked like this was all an amusing lark.

But none of them looked ashamed.


On a day of yet another seemingly random murder downtown, seven of the eight teens charged in last month’s shocking swarming and fatal stabbing of Ken Lee — a man who had struggled with homelessness — once again appeared in juvenile court.

All dressed in either grey or black sweatsuits from their detention centre, the teens filled the prisoner’s box and the bench alongside it. In a more normal situation, these girls could be lined up in a gym class awaiting the start of a volleyball game.

But this is not a normal situation.


Instead, they are all accused murderers charged with the chilling death of a stranger; seven young teens with an equal number of special constables in the hot courtroom keeping a careful eye on them all, along with their lawyers, scattered relatives and assorted media, including a reporter from the New York Times.

Crown Sarah De Filippis presented an overview of the prosecution’s case ahead of the girls’ separate bail hearings that are to follow next week and into February. All of the evidence is covered by a routine publication ban.

One of the eight accused was released on bail last month — the reasons for her release are also covered by a pub ban.


None of the girls can be identified under the Youth Criminal Justice Act.


Toronto Police allege three 13-year-olds, three 14-year-olds and two 16-year-olds swarmed and stabbed the 59-year-old man at a parkette near York St. and University Ave. just after midnight on Dec. 18.

Lee later died in hospital.

Police have said they believe the teens congregated after meeting on social media and are from homes across the GTA.

The charges against them haven’t been tested in court

Their latest appearance came a day after the victim’s family put out a strong statement criticizing the youth law that allows for bail and a publication ban on their identities.

“How is the Act protecting the public if we don’t know who these perpetrators are and why they are released on bail?” wrote Lee’s brother-in-law Eric Shum.



It’s easy to understand the family’s pain and fury. A man they loved has been taken in such a cruel, heartless fashion.

“Just note that Ken was a kind soul with a heart of gold,” the family wrote in the statement. “He was not in the system due to alcohol or drug abuse. He was a man with pride who had fallen and wanted to learn to stand up on his own knowing that he always had his family behind him.”

According to the GoFundMe organized by Helen Shum, her brother died a hero.

“Although the circumstances are not fully understood, we were told he was protecting his friend that was being attacked by these girls,” she wrote on the platform that raised $60,000 toward funeral and legal expenses.


There are many legitimate and pressing questions to be asked, about rising youth crime, about an allegedly violent mob of girls so emboldened and so heartless that, according to police, they could allegedly take a man’s life with such horrifying ambivalence.

But looking at those girls as they sat in the courtroom Friday, you can’t ignore the fact that they’re still just children, baby-faced kids accused of a horrible crime, but kids nonetheless. We can’t afford to let outrage overwhelm the fact that they are youth.

If they are found to have committed the crimes they are accused of, then there’s still time to save them — and still time to save us from them.

mmandel@postmedia.com
 
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The_Foxer

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“How is the Act protecting the public if we don’t know who these perpetrators are and why they are released on bail?”
Sigh - wait till they're released for the crime with no permanent criminal record and 20 hours of community service. If you think you're mad now you better have some heart medication handy.
 
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spaminator

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Attacks on Toronto's homeless appear to be escalating: Advocates
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Fakiha Baig
Published Jan 23, 2023 • 3 minute read

Advocates who work with Toronto’s homeless community say they’ve observed an alarming uptick in violence against those who are unhoused — a situation they say has come under the spotlight after recent assaults and the stabbing death of a homeless man in the city.


Toronto police and the city say they don’t collect specific data on attacks against homeless individuals, but street pastor Doug Johnson Hatlem and Diana Chan McNally, a harm reduction case manager, say they’ve noticed an escalation in physical and verbal assaults in recent months based on interactions with those they work with.


“This isn’t brand new, but certainly, the severity of attacks and the frequency of severe attacks is at a level that I haven’t seen before,” said Hatlem, who is also a spokesperson for the charity Sanctuary Toronto and has worked with vulnerable populations for more than a decade.

“Some of them are reported to police and some of them aren’t reporting.”

Hatlem said those he works with have told him of threats of violence from strangers if homeless people “don’t move along” on sidewalks. Some have said they’ve had water bottles thrown at them and several have reported assaults, he said.


“Smaller incidents (are) of people spitting (on) or chasing homeless people,” he said. “We hear more discriminatory things be said to individuals on the streets.”

McNally, a harm reduction case manager with All Saints Church, said she’s seeing more homeless people with bruises, cuts and various other injuries after being assaulted by strangers.

“There is such an increase of violence against people who are actively on the streets,” said McNally. “It’s ongoing, but I see it more and more. There’s just so much hatred and dehumanization of people who are unhoused.”

McNally highlighted violence against homeless individuals while at a memorial earlier this month for Ken Lee, who died after allegedly being swarmed and stabbed by eight teen girls in mid-December. The teens have been charged with second-degree murder.


Other recent incidents include the slashing of two homeless people last month. A 21-year-old Toronto man has been arrested in that case.

McNally said vulnerable community members regularly tell her “members of the public hate them and don’t want them to be there.”

“They are human beings. They deserve to live in the city like everyone else,” she said.

Social and economic distress has seen the homeless population in Toronto rise in recent years, and the city’s efforts to clear certain homeless encampments from parks has fuelled hostility towards those who are unhoused, said Hatlem, the street pastor. A city bylaw prevents camping in parks.

The bylaw and the city’s enforcement of it when it comes to clearing homeless encampments, “sets a strong tone that unhoused people are trash,” Hatlem said.


In an interim report released last year, the city’s ombudsman said the municipality must treat people living in homeless encampments with dignity and respect as it continues to remove those living at local parks.

The city said it was aware of several reported attacks against homeless individuals and noted that one of its top priorities is providing support to its most vulnerable residents.

“There is no place in our City for those that would commit acts of violence against people experiencing homelessness,” Anthony Toderian, a spokesman for Toronto Mayor John Tory, wrote in a statement.

“We appreciate the anxiety these acts may have caused for others living outside who have already experienced so much trauma.”

Toderian further said that an “accusation of a City narrative against people experiencing homelessness and their belongings is not only wildly untrue but extremely harmful to outreach efforts.”

The city said it had numerous resources dedicated to help homeless individuals find “safe inside space” while working to find permanent supportive housing. The City of Toronto’s website says its shelter system accommodates approximately 8,200 people every night.