Egypt on the Verge of Collapse?

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Now the election results from before 1979 ......... ????

Moving them goal posts are you?


Like you actually have anything important to play with.

The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group, said it was seeking to form a broad political committee with Mohamed ElBaradei to talk to the army.

Egypt's Vice President Omar Suleiman says President Hosni Mubarak has asked him to start dialogue with all political parties, including on constitutional and legislative reform, a key demand voiced by protesters.
Egypt to start dialogue with all political parties - Yahoo! News UK


I do and I would strongly doubt that they would lose the designation if they came to power.


They are blowing their horn loud and clear that they don't care about the Egypotian people, ythey only care that 'their boy' is in power. What a sda pathetic group they have been moulded into by their handlers, the Rothschild elite.

The Israelis care about the Egyptians about as much as the Egyptians care about the Israelis.


Tell it to the former conservitaves.

That was the best you could come up with?


Picked up by the Arab Nations through a new energy tax that only applies to the West and their 'friends'.

And what do you have to support this?


We don't have Israel's permission.

Wow... you are caving in on this thread aren't you.


As above so it is below also, you have a great grip on that stupid aspect. Does your head ring like a bell??

And saying that Canada need "Israel's permission" isn't a "great grip on stupid"?



That was my point, the US doesn't just let a Nation walk away, US sanctions against Cuba went on thill just a year ago, that makes for 45 years of US retaliation, with Iran it will be much longer

We chosed not to deal with them. That was all. They were free to govern as they saw fit. Why should we deal with them?

"Down with USA! Down with USA!.... Oh by the way... can we trade and get aid from you?"

lol.... I think not.


as there are true riches to be sought after rather than just an Island resort for the rich and famous of the American elite (both sides of the Law) and their hookers.

Is that why Canadians visit Cuba?


NP, hopefully some day you might explain why when JFK says something (a very smart man) the Nation goes off in the opposite direction, at high speed as Vietnam was another false-flag war the US started. Stupid from the get go and no signs of ever diverting from that same course.

False-Flag. lol. JFK started the whole ball rolling in Vietnam and his Democrat successor continued it.

So yes I believe the US can justify some limited action to help liberate 80 million Egyptians from a brutal oppressive dictator. I'm not suggesting the US President order Egypt be invaded pre-emptively or kill thousands of American soldiers. I'm suggesting something like the US President picking up a pen and sign some document which cuts US "aid" if Egypt doesn't hold free and fair elections.

.

So NOW you want the US to throw its monetary weight around because it suits YOUR purpose. NOW you want the US to use its influence to achieve the results that YOU want. Isn't that sort of hypocritical?

The President has thrown his vocal support behind the uprising and that is more than enough. We should not have even done that in my opinion. He has done that for the past few days so I don't know where you are getting your information that the US Govt is not supporting the uprising. I understand that you don't want the US Administration to support the uprising because it makes your whinning all for nothing.

Ah well.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
I supported diplomacy first and then economic means. War can only be justified in self defense or to stop a humanitarian catastrophe.

The US government is already using its monetary weight in Egypt... to support a brutal oppressive dictator. All the US government needs to do is threaten to halt Mubarak's gravy train and he'd be gone the same day. Instead your government continues to send Mubarak $1.3B US in arms and another $800M US in economic aid annually.

If Mubarak doesn't resign today, this will turn violent and "Made in the USA" arms, paid with American tax dollars will be used to kill Egyptian protesters. Since the American government is running up a deficit, your country has to borrow this money and eventually raise taxes to support Mubarak and possibly crush this pro-democracy movement.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
I supported diplomacy first and then economic means. War can only be justified in self defense or to stop a humanitarian catastrophe.

Correct me if I am wrong... and I very well could be...

Did you come out and support the demonstrations in Iran last year?

The US government is already using its monetary weight in Egypt... to support a brutal oppressive dictator. All the US government needs to do is threaten to halt Mubarak's gravy train and he'd be gone the same day. Instead your government continues to send Mubarak $1.3B US in arms and another $800M US in economic aid annually.

KEY WORD... ANNUALLY! Bingo!

If the US used it's influence... wouldn't that be meddling in their affairs? What is the difference?

If Mubarak doesn't resign today, this will turn violent and "Made in the USA" arms, paid with American tax dollars will be used to kill Egyptian protesters.

Here we go.

Newsflash... Canada is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world so don't go playing the "babe in the woods" act.

Since the American government is running up a deficit, your country has to borrow this money and eventually raise taxes to support Mubarak and possibly crush this pro-democracy movement.

Now you are sounding even more foolish.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Correct me if I am wrong... and I very well could be...

Did you come out and support the demonstrations in Iran last year?....

Yes I did! I sided with the people against their oppressive government... I still do. I support separating religion from government, equal rights and against the death penalty. My only beef was with our news regarding this event. The MSM exaggerated crowd sizes, seldom mentioned the evidence supporting fraud or evidence of foreign interference by entities hostile to the Iranian regime.



I'm ashamed of Canada's official position on this issue.

WASHINGTON - Prime Minister Stephen Harper says the dramatic change taking place in Egypt must be rooted in shared values like human rights, non-violence and the rule of law. Harper's comments, his first in public on uprising in Egypt since the crisis erupted 10 days ago, came after an hour-long meeting in the Oval Office with U.S. President Barack Obama. He says it will be in the hands of the Egyptian people to decide who leads them into the future, but that it's not enough that it simply be a more democratic one. Harper says that democracy must be rooted in respect for minorities, including religious minorities. The U.S., along with other major European countries, is urging Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to step aside immediately and allow for a transition of power. Canada, however, has refrained from asking for Mubarak's ouster, speaking instead about the need to respect human rights and a peaceful transition to democracy. Israeli ambassadors have reportedly been told to urge countries such as Canada to ease off criticism of Mubarak, and express a commitment to stability in Egypt...
Harper on Egypt: Democracy, yes, but one rooted in respect for rights, laws - Winnipeg Free Press

These people are risking their lives to fight for freedom and democracy. Rather than adding his voice to the chorus of world leaders asking for Mubarak to step down, Canada's "leader" supports giving the dictator more time to find and punish those responsible. Its a sad day when Canada officially sides with a dictator against his people.

Feel free to lecture Canadians regarding our support for Mubarak
 
Last edited:

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
The American government gives Egyptians aid on a daily basis. Most of it subsidizes their military. If Mubarak doesn't resign and hand over power to a unity government, Obama should play this card. Stop the aid and let the Egyptian military know it comes back the moment a transitional unity government holds power. I predict the Egyptian military would not miss a single payment...

Its time the US threw Mubarak under the bus.

Are you...or have you ever been one of the useful idiots in "Code Pink"?:protest::lol:
This useful idiot sides with the Egyptian people, freedom and democracy against Mubarak, oppression, tyranny and PM Stephen Harper. Which side are you on?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Yes I did! I sided with the people against their oppressive government... I still do. I support separating religion from government, equal rights and against the death penalty. My only beef was with our news regarding this event. The MSM exaggerated crowd sizes, seldom mentioned the evidence supporting fraud or evidence of foreign interference by entities hostile to the Iranian regime.

I was not sure. I know the typical lefties were all up in arms about Iranians protesting their government saying it was a US conspiracy.



I'm ashamed of Canada's official position on this issue.

Harper on Egypt: Democracy, yes, but one rooted in respect for rights, laws - Winnipeg Free Press

These people are risking their lives to fight for freedom and democracy. Rather than adding his voice to the chorus of world leaders asking for Mubarak to step down, Canada's "leader" supports giving the dictator more time to find and punish those responsible. Its a sad day when Canada officially sides with a dictator against his people.

I doubt Harper said...

"I'd like to give Mubarak more time to find and punish those responsible."


Feel free to lecture Canadians regarding our support for Mubarak

I'm not going to lecture Canadians. I do not think it is Canada's business to get involved. Canada is typically good at not meddling. That is one trait I wish we had.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
This useful idiot sides with the Egyptian people, freedom and democracy against Mubarak, oppression, tyranny and PM Stephen Harper. Which side are you on?

Let's just say I'm not a Joo Hater like you.....
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
He wasn't an independent Dictator, he took orders from somebody and they took orders from somebody. I would say 'follow the money' but everybody knows where that leads to. If the US was giving Egypt military supplies and money then the odds are they also got rewards above what producing a few weapons brought in (from the taxpayers).
Since repression is part of the root cause (perpetual poverty running a close 2nd) of the demand for change and the US and Israel are pushing for the next in power in the same corrupt system clearly says what their policy is towards the 'will of the 'majority' and the methods that they recommend be used by the current Gov are Stalin in nature. That method worked because the events were long over before anybody heard about them, that is not the case this century.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
The money was helping pay for the peace. Simple, no plot no anything just a simple bribe to our local Egyptian trader.
A certain kind of peace, one that had nothing to do with peace. Lining the pockets of a select few did not erase their Nation Debt of some $30B, nor poverty for many while making gluttons of a few.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html
Population below poverty line:
20% (2005 est.)

Household income or consumption by percentage share:
lowest 10%: 3.9%


highest 10%: 27.6% (2005)











Egypt and the Palestinian question - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
Signs and chants have called on Mubarak to seek refuge in Tel Aviv, while his hastily appointed vice-president, Omar Suleiman, has been disparaged as a puppet of the US. Egypt's widely publicised sale of natural gas to Israel at rock bottom prices has featured in many refrains emanating from the crowds.

Israel has already stated that it's ''claimed' gas area would be taxed at 60% off the top for 'the Citizens' of Israel. That usually means more for the poor, if that was a concern the problem would be receiving more attention today that it has been getting. The above would seem to those are the only Citizens in the world entitled to shares in the export of their natural resources.

Is that an example how joos do business? Shirley you know that it looks like an uneven playing field when two standards are employed at different times. Watch the price of gas rise dramatically if Israel was able to export it as a product. lol

Poor guy - he just can't figure out that 30 years of repressive dictatorship had no small role in the people's lack of happiness.
Still, jet black hair and being over 80 says something for him ...... or the climate ...... or the meds.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
A certain kind of peace, one that had nothing to do with peace. Lining the pockets of a select few did not erase their Nation Debt of some $30B, nor poverty for many while making gluttons of a few.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html
Population below poverty line:
20% (2005 est.)

Household income or consumption by percentage share:
lowest 10%: 3.9%


highest 10%: 27.6% (2005)



.

You cannot see to it that the people who need the money get it, not without throwing out another government and having the population after you. It is better Egypt settles its own distribution of wealth. I agree $2.00 a day is not a great wage, hopefully that will change when a new government is installed, but I doubt it. In the meantime we do not want another Arab Israeli war.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
You cannot see to it that the people who need the money get it, not without throwing out another government and having the population after you.
In this case throwing out the Gov is also throwing out the US. The aid doesn't filter down to the guy making $2/day anyway. A revolt would see the gas being sold at fair market value and 60% given to the people who are lucky enough to be 'local residents'. If us consumers are doing our living on credit that is never intended to be paid back it matters little (in the end) if we pay $5/ltr or $6/ltr.

The point here being to get a true change in Gov that is fair to the people and is in good standing with the UN (as far as international relationships are concerned, as in nuclear energy). Right now the entire Gov should be considered 'suspect' as far as representing the best interests of the ones in the revolt. If it started over the price of a loaf of bread then bankers are also in on the persecution of the poor. (intentional starvation of a select group is a war crime that the people have rebelled from) The poor also want the 'over indulgers' of the country gone. If the opposition is corrupt then even they should be replaced which would propel the university professors into the spotlight and graduates as being the new conduit to their new bosses, the poorest of the land. That means they could say no to the military aid, in that, if Kuwait was rescued from invasion by Saddam the the UN would do the same for Egypt. No need for the $1.3 B in military aid and the economic aid was mostly spread around greedy subcontractors that saw the living standards go downhill for those at the bottom of society.

It is better Egypt settles its own distribution of wealth.
The US and Israel are already promoting who they want as the next leader, the #2 thief since the current leader will most likely end up in exile in a 'western friendly country' with several billion dollars. #2 would want the same 'retirement plan'. Having pictures of all the 'rebels' and the keys to the secret prisons means political watchdogs are real dogs rather than the next generation and the retired generation making adjustment recommendations to the current leadership. Since the current Gov is fully supported by the US and Israel they should be silent as far as saying who they would be 'comfortable with'. Their 'backup plan' is a full scale military coup until a suitable Gov can be fore a decade or two down the road. The Military would see a big jump in hardware available for free and those new airbases will be useful in patrolling the streets of Cairo.

I agree $2.00 a day is not a great wage,
Compared to $0.00 a day it is a great wage.

hopefully that will change when a new government is installed,
That depends on who that is, if the 'next in line' is the next leader he is just as propped up as the last one, even more so. The first step might be getting as many facts about how the old gov ran things and that gives a start to the changes needed if the elite are to be brought down a few notches so the least can be brought up by the same amount. The next step would be to prosecute them, the question as to whether their recommended methods of extraction confessions might be irrelevant as they already know what would be done so they will be singing very early on, before all sorts of media devices. No exiles with billions still in their pockets.

but I doubt it. In the meantime we do not want another Arab Israeli war.
Like 2006??? or 2008-09???
If the next Gov kicks out the US then the hardware would stop an they might decide to spent their own money on their own people. The odds of the US and Israel 'letting it go' willingly are nill. If Egypt is an exporter of energy then they should take a look at Venezuela's Constitution and compare it to what the West's choice for leader will be offering, Lot in the spotlight and even on signed papers but zero when it comes time to 'pay-up'.
If Israel and Egypt are on the same side (via the US) the combined total for the arms yearly is closer to $5B .... That's a lot of money for weapons when Gaza is the only clear organized enemy (to Israel) in the area.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
In this case throwing out the Gov is also throwing out the US. The aid doesn't filter down to the guy making $2/day anyway.
Ya, but some of it goes to the infrastructure.

I can't wait to see what happens when the aid stops.

Should prove to be entertaining.

I'm sure you'll blame the US again.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Wouldn't that depend on how much the US and Israel don't interfere behind the scenes as they have with other Nations once the relationship is no longer desired by the host Nations. Doing trade or receiving 'aid' with anybody would still result in an 'opinion' being offered by the one who could pull strings with the old Gov. If military aid went down then Israel (and therefore the world) should be 'relieved' even if their cost of NG rose to what is 'normal'.

You can't get around the fact that the US did support this one man and he has nor excalated anything to spark the protests, that means what was going on as far as persecution of their own citizens was done with American and Israeli approval. The people involved on the ground may/may not have all the nitty gritty details that have played out behind closed doors. Hopefully the changes are made after as much of that is made public as possible. Having 1M of the poor disappear because of a wage increase is the preferred method over 1M being marched into the sands and left to die. The only ones that would really object are the bankers and the US is under their thumb more than anybody if total debt is used as the measuring stick.

So the buck stops at the bankers willfully creating poverty to the extent that a revolt is even on any list of options. There is no shortage of money, there is a lack of desire on the bankers part to fund projects for the people with money that belongs to the people (under substainable banking practices).

Egypt would have to eventually decide on following Iceland's lead (least popular with TPTB) or Ireland which increased debt onto the people's shoulders for bad banking practices.

$1,275,000,000 is the value of just the NG they export @ 8.5T cu meters @ $150.00/1000 cu m.

60% of that total is $765,000,000, the same amount of economic aid the US gives to just the elite of the Gov. The people of the land get enriched a certain amount and the international community is paying market value for a product that is sold in a per unit setting.

When taking over from a dictator are you allowed to use dictatorial powers yourself. In nationalizing the international businesses that were 'involved' with the corrupt Gov. I would think it would be wise to fire them also and let a court rule on how that move is to take plave under the 'rules'. (perhaps an international one at the expense of other nations just to help curb corruption and speed things up)

I'm going by the 'assumption' that something born out of a crime can never lose it's status as being illegally gotten.