Egypt on the Verge of Collapse?

[MHz]

Israel has tremendous respect for Mubarak, who carefully honored his country's peace agreement with Israel after taking power nearly 30 years ago.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_us_egypt_protests

Israel likes to promote that they stand for democracy. Mubarak is a dictator, one that accepts help from Israel when it comes to violently squashing peaceful demonstrations.

Egyptian Regime Applies Israeli Plan to Crush Resistance Kawther Salam

Rights NGO claims that Israeli planes carrying crowd dispersal weapons have arrived in Egypt

 

[earth_as_one]

Egypt could end up being an Islamic theocracy, if the US and their allies in Egypt react to these protests the same way as the Shah and his supporters reacted to their popular uprising which started in 1977.

Protests against the Shah started in 1977, two years before the Shah's regime fell. Initially the protests were small and disorganized. The people behind the Shah (who really was just a figurehead) responded with brutal crack down and drove the movement underground. A few months later, the movement to overthrow the Shah resurfaced with bigger and better organized. Iran's leaders responded with greater violence and atrocities, driving the movement underground again. A few months later the protests resurfaced even bigger and better organized and Iran's leaders responded with even greater violence and atrocities. Repeat the cycle a few more times and the protests and by the time the movement to overthrow the Shah succeeded in 1979, they were led by Muslim clerics with an agenda to establish an Islamic theocracy.
Iranian Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the Egyptian authorities responded to these protests the same way Iran did in 1977-79, I would expect the movement to overthrow Mubarak would become violent and extreme. However that's not what happened in Egypt.... at least so far.

The US and their allies in Egypt obviously learned from past mistakes in Iran and other popular revolts (Eastern Europe). They did not react with a violent crackdown, but instead gave clear signals that the military would only intervene to prevent violence and property damage, while respecting the right of Egyptians to peaceful protest. Instead of the situation spiraling into a cycle of escalating violence, the peaceful protests released pent up anger and frustration.

I'm watching Aljazeera live right now, and I am aware that the violent elements of anti-government and pro-Mubarak are battling each other, while the military tries to keep these groups separated. Another brilliant stroke! Some people want violence and they are getting their fill in a way that is not leading to extremism.

It appears the Americans and their allies in Egypt have managed this crisis extremely well. They probably will get an orderly transition that they can influence if not completely control.

 

[darkbeaver]

not a very good analysis - but then your bias is what leads you. That is the problem with bias.

I know you're not that stupid Goober. I have a position because I am able to think independently and arrive at a considered opinion. If I have a bias, and it is obvious that I do, that bias is determined by my sense of justice and fair play. Being biased is not a crime nor is it a mistake it is simply knowing right from wrong and expressing it. Of course an unbiased individual like yourself may not understand any of that.

 

[Johnny Utah]

That Israel's leaders had tremendous respect for someone who has brutally oppressed 80 million people for 30 years speaks volumes about where Israel stands on human rights, freedom and democracy.

This has nothing to do with Israel's record on human rights, Mubarak was the lesser of two evils to deal with.

 

[earth_as_one]

This has nothing to do with Israel's record on human rights, Mubarak was the lesser of two evils to deal with.

I would agree that Mubarak's oppressive brutal dictatorship was evil.

I disagree that only one other option existed or that freedom and democracy are "evil".

 

[Unforgiven]

I think populations have to grow as a culture and sometimes that means making mistakes. Egypt is growing for sure and which ever way the choose to go after Mubarack is ousted, they will have to suffer their choice good or bad. In relation to the West, I hope they choose a democratic system that is progressive and focused on raising the standard of living for the people of Egypt. If they slip into the foolish stance of aggression toward Israel they will as they did before fall under the woe that death and needless suffering brings.

Hopefully this will result in peace and a better way for Egypt.

 

[EagleSmack]

Again you have no idea what you are saying. If Israel is to have peace they have to remain at peace with Egypt. If Iranian (Muslim Brotherhood) types take over Egypt the peace treaty will be thrown out and real war will break out. If that is you objective, you get everything you try and tell us you do not want. What exactly within those parameters do you want. Peace or nuclear annihilation of the Mid-East.

Which is exactly what the EAO types ache for. More war, more bloody war hopefully involving Jews slaughtering more Muslims so they can point at the Israel and say...

"See! See the Jooos kill!"

They ache for it and their eyes brighten when they see a possible chance for more war. If there is no war, then how can they go around and beat the drum and say....

"STOP THE WAR!"

 

[MHz]

This has nothing to do with Israel's record on human rights, Mubarak was the lesser of two evils to deal with.

For the people of Egypt he was the greater of two evils, their rights come before the rights of Israel.

Hamas is an elected Gov, so is the Gov in Iran. The ones pushing for brutal Dictators to be in charge is Israel.

"Israel's prime minister has said Iran wants to take advantage of the chaos in Egypt to create "another Gaza" there and warned that Islamic parties have already taken over power by democratic means in Iran, Lebanon and Gaza."

Netanyahu: Does Hizbullah Promote Human Rights? - Naharnet Newsdesk

 

[EagleSmack]

Hamas is an elected Gov, so is the Gov in Iran. The ones pushing for brutal Dictators to be in charge is Israel.

LMAO@U&This

 

[MHz]

I can easily find election results from 1979 and on, can you do the same for the the of the US installed dictator for the 25 years that preceded that?? If not STFU.

JFK was probably referencing these Dictators that the US and Israel favor when he made the secret societies speech shortly before he was silenced?

 

[earth_as_one]

Which is exactly what the EAO types ache for. More war, more bloody war hopefully involving Jews slaughtering more Muslims so they can point at the Israel and say...

"See! See the Jooos kill!"

They ache for it and their eyes brighten when they see a possible chance for more war. If there is no war, then how can they go around and beat the drum and say....

"STOP THE WAR!"

I can understand why some Americans are upset that Egyptians are ridding themselves of a pro-American dictator. Let me console you. There, there, poor baby... Feel better?

I bet you will cry far fewer tears when Syrians dispose their dictator. I won't miss Mubarak and I hope Assad gets the same treatment by Syrians.

I have to give the Obama administration credit. When they realized they couldn't stop this revolt, they switched gears and managed it. I admit I was starting to believe Obama was just smoke and mirrors, but the way he handled this crisis was amazing. While tensions are still high, and today's clashes were disturbing, they are far less than what would have happened if the Egyptian government tried to crack down on two million protesters. We'll see what happens tomorrow, but I think this revolution has cooled off to a simmer for now. As long as the change is real and Egyptians have free and fair elections in the relatively near future, I suspect we won't see another million person protest in Egypt. Hopefully this event will be a template for getting rid of brutal oppressive dictators through out the region.

While this revolution is far from over, I'm predicting a fizzle of violence tomorrow rather than an explosion during the planned march on the palace tomorrow. I expect the Egyptian military will not allow the protesters to trash the palace, and the protesters will back down. But I could be wrong.

Unless something drastic happens tomorrow, the US will get their desired orderly transition. It might be a bit premature, but i think the Obama administration should be congratulated for a job well done. Americans can be proud their government acted as a force for peace, freedom and democracy in Egypt.

If someone told me a little over two years ago that I'd be writing that last line, I'd have choked.

 

[EagleSmack]

I can understand why some Americans are upset that Egyptians are ridding themselves of a pro-American dictator. Let me console you. There, there, poor baby... Feel better?

I bet you will cry far fewer tears when Syrians dispose their dictator. I won't miss Mubarak or Assad. I see dictators as dictators and I'm happy to see them all overthrown by relatively peaceful means.

I have to give the Obama administration credit. When they realized they couldn't stop this revolt, they switched gears and managed it. I admit I was starting to believe Obama was just smoke and mirrors, but the way he handled this crisis was amazing. While tensions are still high, and today's clashes were disturbing, they are far less than what would have happened if the Egyptian government tried to crack down on two million protesters. We'll see what happens tomorrow, but I think this revolution has cooled off to a simmer for now. As long as the change is real and Egyptians have free and fair elections in the relatively near future, I suspect we won't see another million person protest in Egypt.

I'm predicting a fizzle of violence tomorrow rather than an explosion. Unless something drastic happens, the US will get their desired orderly transition. Congratulations for a job well done. Americans can be proud their government acted as a force for peace, freedom and democracy in Egypt.

If someone told me a little over two years ago that I'd be writing that last line, I'd have choked.

Honestly... I could care less what the Egyptians do. I think we should stay the BLEEP out of it. Let the Egyptians fight amongst themselves and sort out their own issues.

You on the other hand are hoping for an Egyptian government that will fight Israel.

I can easily find election results from 1979 and on, can you do the same for the the of the US installed dictator for the 25 years that preceded that?? If not STFU.

JFK was probably referencing these Dictators that the US and Israel favor when he made the secret societies speech shortly before he was silenced?

The Supreme Leader is the Ruler of Iran. There have been two...

Grand Ayatollah Rhullah Khomeini 1979-1989

Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Khamenei 1989- Present


He presides over the Guardian Council who decides WHO the people will vote for.

The President of Iran is a puppet and mouth piece of the Supreme Leader and Guardian Council.

So you can STFU anytime you want.

OWNED

 

[darkbeaver]

I can understand why some Americans are upset that Egyptians are ridding themselves of a pro-American dictator. Let me console you. There, there, poor baby... Feel better?

I bet you will cry far fewer tears when Syrians dispose their dictator. I won't miss Mubarak and I hope Assad gets the same treatment by Syrians.

I have to give the Obama administration credit. When they realized they couldn't stop this revolt, they switched gears and managed it. I admit I was starting to believe Obama was just smoke and mirrors, but the way he handled this crisis was amazing. While tensions are still high, and today's clashes were disturbing, they are far less than what would have happened if the Egyptian government tried to crack down on two million protesters. We'll see what happens tomorrow, but I think this revolution has cooled off to a simmer for now. As long as the change is real and Egyptians have free and fair elections in the relatively near future, I suspect we won't see another million person protest in Egypt. Hopefully this event will be a template for getting rid of brutal oppressive dictators through out the region.

While this revolution is far from over, I'm predicting a fizzle of violence tomorrow rather than an explosion during the planned march on the palace tomorrow. I expect the Egyptian military will not allow the protesters to trash the palace, and the protesters will back down. But I could be wrong.

Unless something drastic happens tomorrow, the US will get their desired orderly transition. It might be a bit premature, but i think the Obama administration should be congratulated for a job well done. Americans can be proud their government acted as a force for peace, freedom and democracy in Egypt.

If someone told me a little over two years ago that I'd be writing that last line, I'd have choked.

Justice and maintenance of the status quo. You're so reasonable. Egyptians aren't stupid and neither are the millions upon millions of other victims of the empire. The US will do what its told to do. It has for a long time, despite the American people. A slow orderly transition to totalitarian fascism across the west. Only that will satisfy TPTB. It is close to the end,but the end of what?


"Unless something drastic happens tomorrow, the US will get their desired orderly transition. It might be a bit premature, but i think the Obama administration should be congratulated for a job well done. Americans can be proud their government acted as a force for peace, freedom and democracy in Egypt.

If someone told me a little over two years ago that I'd be writing that last line, I'd have choked."

Plausible deniability. You congradulate the oppressors. You will no doubt, in the coming weeks,lament the regretable loss of life in Egypt because of intransigent unenlightened elements. You are not a friend of peace or the people. I could have seen you write that last line about four years ago.

 

[MHz]

The Supreme Leader is the Ruler of Iran. There have been two...
Grand Ayatollah Rhullah Khomeini 1979-1989
Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Khamenei 1989- Present

He presides over the Guardian Council who decides WHO the people will vote for.
The President of Iran is a puppet and mouth piece of the Supreme Leader and Guardian Council.

So you can STFU anytime you want.

OWNED

Your mission was to show who won elections before, big fat fail, the ones you pointed to were installed by Iranian people unlike the Shaw who was a US puppet. The ones who were better for the Iranian people were the ones who had power after 1979.
Just like in Lebanon, the new Gov in Egypt could well include members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Watch how they immediately lose the terrorist label the West and Israel has given them.

Mossad isn't keep thing their hands clean and neither is the US, the US knows from experience when they have lost the battle, now that will try and stay influential.
http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=224181
(Ahlul Bayt News Agency) - A member of Israeli General Staff Reconnaissance Unit, Sayeret Matkal, has been arrested in Egypt amid massive anti-government protests. The unnamed official was detained on Thursday as Egyptian protesters are keeping up the pressure on President Hosni Mubarak to step down, a video obtained by Press TV's website showed.





Egypt just has to be careful not to let in another puppet wearing different clothes. I can see why you would support the current leadership. The $40 -$70B they bilked from the Egyptians is pennies compared to what the US Gov has bilked from it's citizens. Egyptians said enough, that makes them much smarter than the average Americian who has been ripped off for 3X as long and still, hardly a peep of protest.

On second thought, keep talking it, widens the true definition of stupid.

If someone told me a little over two years ago that I'd be writing that last line, I'd have choked.

Before you get too teary eyed remember how things went for Cuba and Iran after they got rid of the US puppet rulers.

 

[EagleSmack]

Your mission was to show who won elections before, big fat fail, the ones you pointed to were installed by Iranian people unlike the Shaw who was a US puppet. The ones who were better for the Iranian people were the ones who had power after 1979.

My mission, if you want to call it that, was to basically laugh at you calling the Iranian Govt. an elected government.

My mission was an overwhelming success as I laughed heartily.

Just like in Lebanon, the new Gov in Egypt could well include members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Watch how they immediately lose the terrorist label the West and Israel has given them.

I wouldn't bet on that.

Mossad isn't keep thing their hands clean and neither is the US, the US knows from experience when they have lost the battle, now that will try and stay influential.
Egypt arrest Israeli spy amid unrest
(Ahlul Bayt News Agency) - A member of Israeli General Staff Reconnaissance Unit, Sayeret Matkal, has been arrested in Egypt amid massive anti-government protests. The unnamed official was detained on Thursday as Egyptian protesters are keeping up the pressure on President Hosni Mubarak to step down, a video obtained by Press TV's website showed.

THE JOOOOOOOOS! THE JOOOOOOOS!

Egypt just has to be careful not to let in another puppet wearing different clothes. I can see why you would support the current leadership. The $40 -$70B they bilked from the Egyptians is pennies compared to what the US Gov has bilked from it's citizens. Egyptians said enough, that makes them much smarter than the average Americian who has been ripped off for 3X as long and still, hardly a peep of protest.

Hey look at all the money your government "bilks" from you. That is what governments do.

Maybe they will have a hostile government and we can end the Billion dollars in aid shipments we give them.

By the way... when are the Canadians taking to the streets then? Are are the Egyptians smarter than Canadians? (in other words...pwned)

On second thought, keep talking it, widens the true definition of stupid.

See above

Before you get too teary eyed remember how things went for Cuba and Iran after they got rid of the US puppet rulers.

And look at both countries today! What poor examples. Cuba is broke and now admits their system of government is unsustainable. Iran is dominated by a religious theocracy no different from those of the Middle Ages.

Thanks for playing!

 

[MHz]

My mission, if you want to call it that, was to basically laugh at you calling the Iranian Govt. an elected government.
My mission was an overwhelming success as I laughed heartily.

Now the election results from before 1979 ......... ????

I wouldn't bet on that.

Like you actually have anything important to play with.

The Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group, said it was seeking to form a broad political committee with Mohamed ElBaradei to talk to the army.

Egypt's Vice President Omar Suleiman says President Hosni Mubarak has asked him to start dialogue with all political parties, including on constitutional and legislative reform, a key demand voiced by protesters.
Egypt to start dialogue with all political parties - Yahoo! News UK

THE JOOOOOOOOS! THE JOOOOOOOS!

They are blowing their horn loud and clear that they don't care about the Egypotian people, ythey only care that 'their boy' is in power. What a sda pathetic group they have been moulded into by their handlers, the Rothschild elite.

Hey look at all the money your government "bilks" from you. That is what governments do.

Tell it to the former conservitaves.

Maybe they will have a hostile government and we can end the Billion dollars in aid shipments we give them.

Picked up by the Arab Nations through a new energy tax that only applies to the West and their 'friends'.

By the way... when are the Canadians taking to the streets then? Are are the Egyptians smarter than Canadians? (in other words...pwned)

We don't have Israel's permission.

See above

As above so it is below also, you have a great grip on that stupid aspect. Does your head ring like a bell??

And look at both countries today! What poor examples. Cuba is broke and now admits their system of government is unsustainable. Iran is dominated by a religious theocracy no different from those of the Middle Ages.

That was my point, the US doesn't just let a Nation walk away, US sanctions against Cuba went on thill just a year ago, that makes for 45 years of US retaliation, with Iran it will be much longer as there are true riches to be sought after rather than just an Island resort for the rich and famous of the American elite (both sides of the Law) and their hookers.

Thanks for playing!

NP, hopefully some day you might explain why when JFK says something (a very smart man) the Nation goes off in the opposite direction, at high speed as Vietnam was another false-flag war the US started. Stupid from the get go and no signs of ever diverting from that same course.

 

[earth_as_one]

Honestly... I could care less what the Egyptians do. I think we should stay the BLEEP out of it. Let the Egyptians fight amongst themselves and sort out their own issues.

You on the other hand are hoping for an Egyptian government that will fight Israel.
...

Back in 2003, US President Bush demanded Iraq's dictator resign over non-existent WMD stockpiles and unproven allegations regarding involvement in 9/11. When that dictator didn't resign, he started an unprovoked war (war crime) which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees. (including thousands of US deaths). Later when Americans realized that Iraq didn't have any WMDs (just like UNMOVIC claimed before the war. Reference: last 2 paragraphs http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovi... ) or any involvement in 9/11, your leaders claimed the war was necessary to liberate the oppressed Iraqi people from a brutal dictator.

So yes I believe the US can justify some limited action to help liberate 80 million Egyptians from a brutal oppressive dictator. I'm not suggesting the US President order Egypt be invaded pre-emptively or kill thousands of American soldiers. I'm suggesting something like the US President picking up a pen and sign some document which cuts US "aid" if Egypt doesn't hold free and fair elections.

BTW, Egypt isn't the only place where US tax dollars aid oppression and injustice. The US also aids oppression and injustice in Jordan, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan... Let's not forget US aid of Israeli colonies in occupied Palestinian territories (war crime), walls to limit humanitarian food and medical aid (crime against humanity) and drop American made White Phosphorus on civilians (war crime) in Gaza. Yes the US is pretty generous in aiding oppression, injustice, war crimes and crimes against humanity around the world, considering that your government is in debt and has to borrow to pay for this aid. If I was an American, I'd prefer my tax dollars went towards social programs or paying down the debt. But I'm a Canadian, and I have no business telling American politicians what to do. That would be the business of Americans.

I guess when it comes to injustice, oppression and dictators we are both being consistent. I'm against these things and willing to speak out against them. You aren't...

 

[MHz]

So yes I believe the US can justify some limited action to help liberate 80 million Egyptians from a brutal oppressive dictator.

You realize that the current leader is there with the consent of the US Gov?

Saddam was their man once Iran kicked them out, that is how that 8 year war began. Once they were done with Saddam he became disposable but the countries wealth changed over to the same companies that Iran kicked out.

 

[gopher]

'' Iranian (Muslim Brotherhood) types''

The Islamic Brotherhood is Sunni whereas Iran is Shiia and at war with that cult.

 

[Kreskin]

Mubarak blames western media for their troubles. Sounds a lot like what we hear from some prominent female Republicans.