Durban Climate Change Conference 2011

[Tonington]

Eugenics came out of biology. For a a scientist you just missed the obvious.

No it didn't, it came out of prejudice, and prejudicial people attempting to fit science to their prejudices. One of the notions that began Eugenics was that the undesirables were going to overtake the desirables with their higher birth rates, and that population needed to be controlled to avoid reduced fitness from the higher proportion of progeny from the undesirables. The Nazi's took it even farther with their pure race madness. There is no biology that supports this flawed view.

 

[petros]

It came from ****ing biology and propaganda. You can't side step that.


Seems to me the planet is overpopulated right now isn't it?

 

[mentalfloss]

How do you comply with something you aren't part of?

Apparently you didn't read your leader's spin. Even he has to come to terms with it:

But what if we refuse to buy credits? In logic that would only ever make sense to UN bureaucrats, the UNFCCC then has the authority to penalize us by making us buy 30% more credits. That’s right, if we refuse to pay $19-billion in environmental baksheesh to cover off our extra emissions, the UN somehow thinks it will be able to convince us to pay $25-billion as a punishment.

It came from ****ing biology and propaganda. You can't side step that.

You're right about the propaganda. But you can't blame the science for it.

 

[petros]

What's a UN? Is it a democracy?

 

[DaSleeper]

The additional penalties are for non-compliance in buying $19 Billion worth of credits.

Long story short -- by withdrawing from the Kyoto Protocol before the end of December, 2011, Canada would protect itself against an explicit finding of non-compliance and the penalties which go with that. That said, the risk that these penalties would have material implications for Canada is quite small. The question which remains is whether the effect on Canada’s international reputation would be greater as a result of withdrawal or non-compliance. We’ll find out what the government thinks between now and Dec. 31.

We all know what the government thinks now.....

 

[mentalfloss]

What's a UN? Is it a democracy?

I know where you're going with this, but Canada won't remove itself from the UNFCCC as that would take away it's vote on international matters.

We all know what the government thinks now.....

Do they want to pay $19 Billion or a little more?

That's the question.

 

[petros]

Vote for what? Only democracies have votes with meaning. They voted in USSR too.

 

[DaSleeper]

I know where you're going with this, but Canada won't remove itself from the UNFCCC as that would take away it's vote on international matters.



Do they want to pay $19 Billion or a little more?

That's the question.

Show me where you get the 19 Billions...

 

[mentalfloss]

Vote for what? Only democracies have votes with meaning. They voted in USSR too.

It's okay, calm down.

Even if we decide to be completely belligerent on this issue and jump out of the U.N. without paying, there will be a legal dispute. We'll be further blacklisted.

And after 4 years of embarrassment, the CPC will be replaced and life will go on as it should.

Show me where you get the 19 Billions...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/16/lorne-gunter-welcome-to-hotel-kyoto/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...and-bolts-of-kyoto-withdrawal/article2263236/

 

[petros]

Show me where you get the 19 Billions...

Your right back pocket.

It's okay, calm down.

Even if we decide to be completely belligerent on this issue and jump out of the U.N. without paying, there will be a legal dispute. We'll be further blacklisted.

And after 4 years of embarrassment, the CPC will be replaced and life will go on as it should.



Lorne Gunter: Welcome to Hotel Kyoto | Full Comment | National Post

The nuts and bolts of Kyoto withdrawal - The Globe and Mail

Blacklisted from what? Karbon Kindergarten?

 

[mentalfloss]

Your right back pocket.

Courtesy of the Liberals and Conservatives.

 

[petros]

It's your money not theirs.

 

[Tonington]

It came from ****ing biology

No, it didn't. There's no biology to support a claim that a sub-population with higher rates of breeding and breeding success are less fit than sub-populations with lower rates of breeding and breeding success. None. There is no biology to support the notion that increasing homozygousity will benefit the fitness of a population. None. Try to find anything that supports these general statements which proponents of eugenics made.

The mechanism for greenhouse gases on the other hand is very well established.

 

[DaSleeper]

Your right back pocket.

Blacklisted from what? Karbon Kindergarten?

I see a lot of "Could"s and "Assuming" in those two opinion pieces but nothing legally binding.
More fear mongering by the greenies....really grabbing at straws now...

It's okay, calm down.

Even if we decide to be completely belligerent on this issue and jump out of the U.N. without paying, there will be a legal dispute. We'll be further blacklisted.

And after 4 years of embarrassment, the CPC will be replaced and life will go on as it should.

 

[mentalfloss]

It's your money not theirs.

And our votes that put them into power.

Do you see, now, why public policy is so important?

Think of that next time you want to waste a page asking me if I bought a solar panel or planted a tree.

I see a lot of "Could"s and "Assuming" in those two oppinion pieces but nothing legally binding.
More fear mongering by the greenies....realy grabbing at straws now...

Lorne Gunter is a greenie confirmed.

roflmao

None of this information is false and I've seen it in a few news stories now:

1.) By withdrawing from Kyoto, Canada would not be withdrawing from the international process for negotiating a global climate change accord. Withdrawal would not affect requirements for annual emissions inventory reporting under the UNFCC.

2.) Canada would be given 100 days after the 2014 review of our emissions inventories to buy international credits to make up the 805 Mt shortfall -- this potential for compliance through permit purchases is behind statements like this one assessing Canada’s Kyoto Debt at up to $19-billion.

3.) Assuming that Canada would not move to purchase billions of dollars worth of international credits, Canada would potentially face penalties for non-compliance. The penalty for non-compliance implies that Canada would be responsible to make up the shortfall of 805 Mt, plus 30 per cent, in a second commitment period after 2012.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...and-bolts-of-kyoto-withdrawal/article2263236/


So, our government knew in hindsight, that even if they didn't keep up with Kyoto targets, they would inevitably have to pay for them.

Why screw over corporations and industry when we can screw over our people directly?

 

[petros]

Think of that next time you want to waste a page asking me if I bought a solar panel or planted a tree.

What have you done? I just offered you a lifetime solution to your fears and guilt. Do you have any idea how much I've already spent to be a soil managment hero and to sell Karbon Kredits? The Kredits were a bonus that came after. If you want to cover your karbon ass on the cheap the offer still stands.

 

[mentalfloss]

What have you done? I just offered you a lifetime solution to your fears and guilt. Do you have any idea how much I've already spent to be a soil managment hero and to sell Karbon Kredits?

Since you're the fiscal hero, I'll just sell them to you for $19 Billion.

By the way, we have a forest in our backyard and one of our vendors gave me a sapling the other day, but that's besides the point.

 

[petros]

Are you a hero?

 

[EagleSmack]

Based on what? The fact that we continue to pollute and increase the opacity of our atmosphere to infrared radiation? I'd agree to that. Reality doesn't care about the political winds.

Based on the Climate Change (formerly Global Warming) movement getting nothing from our pockets. Based on everyone refusing to bow to their will.

So? Again, this is your strawman, find any instance you can where I said the climate only changes and will only ever change because of human activities.

You were a fan boy of those stolen emails, I'm sure you can find something to take out of context.

You've said this a few times and I ignored it. Find where I accused you of saying that. Find where I said...

"Tonington, you only think climate change is man made."

Good luck with that and lets see if you can take me out of context.

My point is the climate has and will always change regardless of what we do. If every industry shuts down at this very moment the climate will change.

 

[petros]

Since you're the fiscal hero, I'll just sell them to you for $19 Billion.

By the way, we have a forest in our backyard and one of our vendors gave me a sapling the other day, but that's besides the point.

Ooooo a tree. Less than one tonne over 100 years. That won't even cover 6 months of coffee drinking.

So tell me. How do you plant a tree in winter?