Does God exist?

[MHz]

It should be a rule for some.

Then you should be able to eat sage and become the same to insects, without the smoke that goes for the lungs.

Are you sure you don't mean better inhaled.

And you just time-traveled here to spread your knowledge around. BeforeChrist really, and I'm on the 3rd rock from the sun.

Guess your nic is bud instead of pal.

 

[Scott Free]

It should be a rule for some.

Perhaps you should make that part of your religion?

Thou shalt not talk of thing unless thou art ignorant of them!

Then you should be able to eat sage and become the same to insects, without the smoke that goes for the lungs.

It is the smoke that keeps the insects away. Early Canadian settlers would burn buffalo dung to do the same thing. You would have been quite a spectacle on an adventuring part to be sure!

Are you sure you don't mean better inhaled.

No, I meant what I said.

And you just time-traveled here to spread your knowledge around. BeforeChrist really, and I'm on the 3rd rock from the sun.

Guess your nic is bud instead of pal.

I have no idea what any of that means.

 

[cortex]

Of course God exists.

He is everywhere, but mostly in our hearts.

This was understood by the aztecs and the occasional cross dressing Canadian prime minister and cabinet *****s when they would put their makeup on, dress up like geisha boys, kidnap innocent Latvian tourists lost in the red light district of the nation's capital and brutally rip their hearts out for fun. Occasionally one would get out of hand and consume the bright red still beating flesh. Sepsis would often ensue and at least on one occasion this sparked a nation wide human heart meat recall.

I know thats a little too abstact for most of you, but we all know that the lord often works in Listerious ways.

 

[darkbeaver]

Listerious ways! double haha:lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

1Pe:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

MHz, the answer is simple. I assume you are the Godly one, the righteous one, I assume you have a seat reserved in Heaven.

Then it surely follows that the ungodly and the sinner (by that I assume anybody who disagrees with you, somebody like me) will rot in Hell forever, of course.

But then isn’t that what every religion says? The believers will go to Heaven; the nonbelievers will go to Hell. So according to the beliefs of ahmadabdalrhman, you are destined to rot in Hell forever, while he enjoys eternal feasting and merrymaking in Heaven (I assume not being a terrorist himself, he is not eligible for 72 virgins).

According to your beliefs, he is destined to rot in Hell forever. I suggest the two of you duke it out.

 

[Scott Free]

He is everywhere, but mostly in our hearts.

You do realize that is the same as saying he is nowhere?

If he is everywhere but you have no proof of him being anywhere then you have proved he doesn't exist.

You're better off saying he lives in a magic house on a cloud in the sky or he occupies a teapot somewhere between here and mars.

By giving god such a specific location (as everywhere :lol he can be easily disproved.

The god myth relies on ambiguity. Take that away and it becomes a fairytale.

 

[In Between Man]

The god myth relies on ambiguity. Take that away and it becomes a fairytale.

It not a myth, and no it doesn't rely on ambiguity. If truth is objective, then why can't objective truths about god be known?

It's possible to have a personal relationship with god.

 

[Scott Free]

It not a myth, and no it doesn't rely on ambiguity. If truth is objective, then why can't objective truths about god be known?

That is the problem though, god has too many definitions and is defined as too many things. Everyone has their own personal definition of god. That is ambiguous; it is the very definition of it!

It's possible to have a personal relationship with god.

How? When god is defined as so many things and is never defined by anything quantifiable then how can you have a relationship with it? What are you really having a relationship with? How could you know its god? What possible measure could you use?

You can have a relationship with a person, a dog, a piece of lettuce but god is non of those things because those are actual real quantifiable objects - god is ambiguousness incarnate.

So how could you possibly know it's god you're having a relationship with and not wish thinking, a meme, childhood brainwashing, psychotic episodes, your imagination, mistaken conclusions of natural occurences etc...? If god has no definition, no real tangible existence then how could you know?

The reality is that it is impossible! How do you know it isn't god you have a relationship with but pink faeries, magic dragons or the real Care Bears? How do you tell them apart? They all answer prayers, love you and give you help when you ask them for it.

What is more is that you're nearly 100% likely to believe in whatever god your parents believed in! How amazing is that? Out of all the thousands of gods and millions of attributes your parents were right all along - just imagine the odds!!! The mind boggles. How could that be? What is the simplest and most likely answer?

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

1Pe:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

004.145

Sahih International: Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire - and never will you find for them a helper -

the fire have levels like heaven have the levels

022.031

Sahih International: Inclining [only] to Allah , not associating [anything] with Him. And he who associates with Allah - it is as though he had fallen from the sky and was snatched by the birds or the wind carried him down into a remote place.​

(I assume not being a terrorist himself, he is not eligible for 72 virgins).

005.032

Sahih International: Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir

(32. Because of that, We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with Al-Bayyinat, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land!) (33. The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified, or their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.) (34. Except for those who (having fled away and then) came back (as Muslims) with repentance before they fall into your power; in that case, know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

According to your beliefs, he is destined to rot in Hell forever. I suggest the two of you duke it out.

I do not think because I do not believe In the Jesus he was the god

I will to rot in Hell forever

because all from prophets before Jesus them do not believe In Jesus

then all the prophets before Jesus them rot in Hell forever..8O


that is very impossible !!

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It not a myth and no it doesn't rely on ambiguity.

alleywayzalwayz, and how do you know it is not a myth? Where is the objective proof?

If truth is objective, then why can't objective truths about god be known?

Truth is objective in some instances, not in others. E.g. does gravity exist, is it controlled by the law of gravity? The answer is yes, here the truth is objective.

On the other hand, in anything to do with metaphysical (or with economics), the truth is far from objective. E.g. does afterlife exist? We don’t know, there is no objective truth here (I don’t think it exists, but somebody else may equally well think otherwise).

Same applies to God, God is an amorphous concept, the existence of which can be neither proved nor disproved.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It's possible to have a personal relationship with god.

alleywayzalwayz, sure it is, but what does that mean? Somebody may claim to have a personal relationship with God, but there is no way to verify that fact objectively.

No doubt you claim that you have personal relationship with Jesus, but would you believe someone if he says that he has personal relationship with Buddha? If not, why not?

And if you can allow that somebody can have personal relationship with Buddha, that destroys the exclusivity of Christian religion, that would mean that there is more than one path to salvation, which Christianity rejects.

So you may have personal relationship with God, but that is your subjective experience, your subjective opinion. Others may or may not share in that opinion.

 

[scratch]

It's possible to have a personal relationship with god.

alleywayzalwayz, sure it is, but what does that mean? Somebody may claim to have a personal relationship with God, but there is no way to verify that fact objectively.

No doubt you claim that you have personal relationship with Jesus, but would you believe someone if he says that he has personal relationship with Buddha? If not, why not?

And if you can allow that somebody can have personal relationship with Buddha, that destroys the exclusivity of Christian religion, that would mean that there is more than one path to salvation, which Christianity rejects.

So you may have personal relationship with God, but that is your subjective experience, your subjective opinion. Others may or may not share in that opinion.

I do not believe in god.

 

[MHz]

1Pe:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

MHz, the answer is simple. I assume you are the Godly one, the righteous one, I assume you have a seat reserved in Heaven.

Then it surely follows that the ungodly and the sinner (by that I assume anybody who disagrees with you, somebody like me) will rot in Hell forever, of course.

Hell doesn't last forever, it isn't open now and once it is open for guests it has a limited time until it is empty of guests.

Another post suggests that hell has levels. That is true to an extent. Hell is a result of punishment, it is not the only place that punishment can occur. Revelation speaks of 3 places , a form of hell that is on the earth (the 5th trump and that lasts a period of 5 month), the vials that comes on sinners (as deemed by higher authorities than men ) from the last 2,000 years and it is in the earth. Satan will be there also, for 1,000 years. That is phase II, a person can recover from that place, Satan cannot, nor can any fallen angels. Phase III is above the earth and it is the fiery lake. Men can go there by committing any sin that applies at that time (after Judgment Day), that is after they have been given a drink of living water and that is the 2nd birth. You have to have that before you can be sent to the lake. Any sin before that that would result either in death or in hell. Release from those places is without those sins attached. There is no Phase IV.
What applied to the 5th trump would also be the way the lake worked, it would also have the conditions that are given in Re:16, that whole chapter can take, at the least, a few hours and at the most the majority of a 12 hour day starting at sunrise and ending with an evening.

But then isn’t that what every religion says? The believers will go to Heaven; the nonbelievers will go to Hell. So according to the beliefs of ahmadabdalrhman, you are destined to rot in Hell forever, while he enjoys eternal feasting and merrymaking in Heaven (I assume not being a terrorist himself, he is not eligible for 72 virgins).

At some point you will admit that somebody more powerful than you is actually directing things to work in a certain way. Those virgins might be destined to stay that way. If that was to be an option dieing for God would be nullified if you took others (with no choice on their part) with you.
Events on earth didn't have anything to do with ...the end of a war in Heaven...so why should there not be a celebration for them in their own place. We don't qualify for being more than dust on the table.

According to your beliefs, he is destined to rot in Hell forever. I suggest the two of you duke it out.

First we should duke something out. It is true people will go to hell, now you show me where it is said that it is forever. The end of the time for repenting (offer on the table) is just before the vials are poured out. That is when hell opens, it is closed at Judgment Day, everybody is standing before God. The graves are also empty as is the sea.
Has that part gotten through?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Hell doesn't last forever, it isn't open now and once it is open for guests it has a limited time until it is empty of guests.

MHz, that is your interpretation, there are many Christians who believe that Heaven and Hell are forever.

I remember once reading the literature of a sect call Worldwide Church of God. According to them, there is only Heaven, no Hell. Those who don’t do to Heaven, are dead forever, they don’t rot in Hell forever.

Another post suggests that hell has levels.

Sure, that is what some say. According to Dante’s Inferno, there are seven levels of Hell. But so what?

With so many beliefs floating around, how do you know which is the right one? Or does God tell you (through personal relationship with God)?

At some point you will admit that somebody more powerful than you is actually directing things to work in a certain way.

I will admit it? Why?

Events on earth didn't have anything to do with ...the end of a war in Heaven.

Is that the Star Wars? Or do Father, Son and Holy Ghost fight each other?

 

[darkbeaver]

Hell doesn't last forever, it isn't open now and once it is open for guests it has a limited time until it is empty of guests.

Another post suggests that hell has levels. That is true to an extent. Hell is a result of punishment, it is not the only place that punishment can occur. Revelation speaks of 3 places , a form of hell that is on the earth (the 5th trump and that lasts a period of 5 month), the vials that comes on sinners (as deemed by higher authorities than men ) from the last 2,000 years and it is in the earth. Satan will be there also, for 1,000 years. That is phase II, a person can recover from that place, Satan cannot, nor can any fallen angels. Phase III is above the earth and it is the fiery lake. Men can go there by committing any sin that applies at that time (after Judgment Day), that is after they have been given a drink of living water and that is the 2nd birth. You have to have that before you can be sent to the lake. Any sin before that that would result either in death or in hell. Release from those places is without those sins attached. There is no Phase IV.
What applied to the 5th trump would also be the way the lake worked, it would also have the conditions that are given in Re:16, that whole chapter can take, at the least, a few hours and at the most the majority of a 12 hour day starting at sunrise and ending with an evening.


At some point you will admit that somebody more powerful than you is actually directing things to work in a certain way. Those virgins might be destined to stay that way. If that was to be an option dieing for God would be nullified if you took others (with no choice on their part) with you.
Events on earth didn't have anything to do with ...the end of a war in Heaven...so why should there not be a celebration for them in their own place. We don't qualify for being more than dust on the table.



First we should duke something out. It is true people will go to hell, now you show me where it is said that it is forever. The end of the time for repenting (offer on the table) is just before the vials are poured out. That is when hell opens, it is closed at Judgment Day, everybody is standing before God. The graves are also empty as is the sea.
Has that part gotten through?

I had forgotten that, what do you think of observed celestial mechanics of the past having been incorporated into the religions of these times and the cyclicle return of those chariots?

 

[MHz]

With so many beliefs floating around, how do you know which is the right one? Or does God tell you (through personal relationship with God)?
Is that the Star Wars? Or do Father, Son and Holy Ghost fight each other?

Personal to the point that I read the Bible and it covers a few topics.

If Jesus is on the right hand of God then Satan was on the left. When Satan was exiled from Heaven 1/3 of all the Angels went with him. That was the end result of 'a war'.

Jude:1:13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jude:1:14: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

If this had not taken place back then they would still be here today.
De:33:2: And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

It is more correct to say Heaven and the Lake exist forever. Even that is not 100% correct. The Lake is without inhabitants, Heaven, the place where the Great White Throne and New Jerusalem can be found do have inhabitants and they did before out universe was created.

Today a threat to your life by somebody who has the means to take it away might make you admit they are more powerful. Then again you might be able to resist doing that even though it costs you your life. That's it, even Satan cannot harm you any further. God can kill you and then send you to hell, torment you past the point of death. Who should you fear most? The ones sent to hell will admit that God makes the decisions on what happens to them.

The parable about the rich man and the beggar also points out that hell and death are two different places, in death Lazarus was asleep, the rich man was very aware of where he was. It just adds to the knowledge about what hell is, it is a progression not a sudden judgment for being late to get to church.

 

[MHz]

I had forgotten that, what do you think of observed celestial mechanics of the past having been incorporated into the religions of these times and the cyclicle return of those chariots?

Somebody came up with astrology, God certainty set things up to follow seasons and months and years as well as days and nights. I don't think He took it any further. A rearrangement of the constellations would be God messing with your head.

Which chariots? The ones from Zec:6?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

God can kill you and then send you to hell, torment you past the point of death. Who should you fear most?

MHz, let me put it this way. According to Muslims, Allah can kill you and then send you to Hell, torment you to the point of death. Do you fear Allah?

Of course you don’t, because according to your belief, Allah is a figment of imagination, a non entity. How can you be afraid of a non entity?

Well, the way you feel about Allah, or about Santa Clause, Easter Bunny etc. is the way I feel about your God. To me he is a figment of your imagination. I cannot be afraid of a figment of imagination any more than I can be afraid of Santa Clause, Easter Bunny or the great Pumpkin (a la Charlie Brown).

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Somebody came up with astrology, God certainty set things up to follow seasons and months and years as well as days and nights. I don't think He took it any further. A rearrangement of the constellations would be God messing with your head.

Which chariots? The ones from Zec:6?

Astrology is far older than any of the religions...people were charting the night sky while they worshipped the sun and the moon...god had nothing to do with it...

Correction: Astrology does not predate the religious observances of the people of Catal Huyuk...

 

[MHz]

I didn't say God had anything to do with astrology, the things I pointed out had to do with astronomy.

I cannot be afraid of a figment of imagination any more than I can be afraid of Santa Clause, Easter Bunny or the great Pumpkin (a la Charlie Brown).

You should fear some things though, most people fear things that can kill them and feel quite different around things that can keep them safe. It isn't like you have never felt fear or safety, just neither when God is the subject.