Do you really save time? Train versus plane

Tonington

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Image credit: Emmanuelle Bournay, UNEP/GRID-Arendal)
Appears in UN publication here: Kick the Habit: A UN Guide to Carbon Neutrality - Maps and Graphics at UNEP/GRID-Arendal




 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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The only reason we have such a difference between the two in North America in time to arrival is due to not really have TVG's or High Speed trains.. If we moved to install those as in Europe and Japan we could have alternatives that would make much more sense..
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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A far more valid and relevant comparison would have been travel time by car vs. travel time by airplane, due to the fact that rail travel is just about dead in North America.

Here is my experience:

The break-even distance between destinations is roughly 300 miles/480 kms.

I travelled between Toronto and Akron, Ohio, and taking the plane cost me time, compared to driving.

Found the same when I travelled between Toronto and Montreal.
 

L Gilbert

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Nov 30, 2006
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lol Given the choice between travelling by air or travelling by train from Vancouver to Toronto, I'll take air, thanks. Went across the prairies by rail once. That was enough.
For shorter distances or anywhere besides the prairies, though, I'd prefer rail.
 

Tonington

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A far more valid and relevant comparison would have been travel time by car vs. travel time by airplane, due to the fact that rail travel is just about dead in North America.

That would only be more valid and relevant if the graphic was intended for North American eyes only, which it wasn't. :idea:

Amtrak has plans now for high speed rail corridors. So, maybe it would only really be relevant for comparing a large sparsely populated country like Canada ;)
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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As I said, rail travel is just about dead, so I won't comment on that.

I would rather drive a thousand miles in a comfortable vehicle, at my own pace, than screw around at airports, being humiliated by swarthy characters, being treated as a terrorist by the same swarthy characters who are far more likely to be terrorists than I.

Having said that, as one who travelled by car between my old home (300Kms East of Toronto) to Vancouver, I would drive thru the United States on their superior interstate highways, with no traffic lights to worry about from coast to coast, rather than on that major mickey mouse pathetic two-lane strip aka the Trans-Canada Highway. Also, better and cheaper restaurants, gas stations and motels along the way.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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I was recently amusing myself with the thoughts of all the wasted effort that went into building and destroying the rail roads in Canada, and how we should regret it.

Train travel is far more enjoyable than flights. Keep in mind that for those 5 hrs you get a seat which is more like first class in a flight. You can book your ticket 5 minutes before the train leaves (or on it even), and if you miss your train, your ticket is valid for the next train, or any other train going there! Not having to go through security checks, a big plus too.
 

L Gilbert

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I was recently amusing myself with the thoughts of all the wasted effort that went into building and destroying the rail roads in Canada, and how we should regret it.

Train travel is far more enjoyable than flights. Keep in mind that for those 5 hrs you get a seat which is more like first class in a flight. You can book your ticket 5 minutes before the train leaves (or on it even), and if you miss your train, your ticket is valid for the next train, or any other train going there! Not having to go through security checks, a big plus too.
Yeah. I've heard many oldtimers mention the dissembling of the railway systems is a major booboo.
Um, if anyone gets the chance, please treat yourselves to a ride through the Rockies by rail. It's indescribable and breath-taking (the best I can do at describing it). As for the prairies, if I had enemies, I would love to subject them to going through by rail. lol
 

Polygong

Electoral Member
May 18, 2009
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For other cities I would go by air, but between any two cities in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, the train is by far better. Not necessarily quicker but it avoids alot of the hassles with security and checking in, plus you don't need to arrive more than 15 minutes before departure.

If your origin and/or desitination are in a city centre, the train puts you right there rather than having to make the extra effort commuting in form the airport.

The seats are more comfortable as well, and the price of a first class train ticket is comparable to an economy class plane ticket.

The total travel time by train in the corridor is a bit longer, but to me it's worth it.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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The prairies have a bad name; I tell you, it is undeserved. Yes, the mountains are lovely.

Where else can you count sixty three thousand, nine hundred and fifteen telephone poles?
 

Tonington

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I was recently amusing myself with the thoughts of all the wasted effort that went into building and destroying the rail roads in Canada, and how we should regret it.

Yup. A lot of work over the years for those walking trails.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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For a trip of 200 miles or less it doesn't make much sense to fly it these days, (unless you have access to a corporate or private aircraft). That is of course depending on the terrain, it may make more sense to fly between Charlottetown and Halifax than to drive it. It is possible to cut the time down by checking in on the web and if you only have carry on bags. You only need to print off your boarding pass on your computer or have it e-mailed to your blackberry, go through security and get on board. A person who travels frequently can have this down to an art.

The chart below is extremely biased, even travelling on the TGV, though quite pleasant, (plus you could bring and consume your own beer) is, or was, quite a lot like catching a flight. You still have to get to the station in Montparnasse, either by cab, Metro, or drive, park and such, check in and find your train. The chart shows the train stations as the starting point. Maybe the chart should show the starting point as the airport and arrival in the city centre, then to the train station, then to destination.

Trying to extoll the virtues of rail travel in Europe or Japan while comparing it to North America and especially Canada, is a non starter. Rail travel in this country has been very heavily subsidized allowing for the building of the infrastructure. Air travel is completely unsubsidized and the entirety of the cost is borne by the the cunsumer. Rail beds here suffer terrible abuse by the climate and pushing a heavy train faster than 70mph invites disaster. To my knowledge the US doesn't subsidize rail travel, and Amtrak's safety record would either bankrupt or cause the shutdown of any airline.

Air and rail both have their pros and cons, virtues and drawbacks. The UN is by no stretch an unbiased entity without an agenda. I trust very little of what comes from it.
 

L Gilbert

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...

The chart below is extremely biased, even travelling on the TGV, though quite pleasant, (plus you could bring and consume your own beer) is, or was, quite a lot like catching a flight. You still have to get to the station in Montparnasse, either by cab, Metro, or drive, park and such, check in and find your train. The chart shows the train stations as the starting point. Maybe the chart should show the starting point as the airport and arrival in the city centre, then to the train station, then to destination.......
Yo, Bob, you forget something?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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The chart below is extremely biased, even travelling on the TGV, though quite pleasant, (plus you could bring and consume your own beer) is, or was, quite a lot like catching a flight. You still have to get to the station in Montparnasse, either by cab, Metro, or drive, park and such, check in and find your train. The chart shows the train stations as the starting point. Maybe the chart should show the starting point as the airport and arrival in the city centre, then to the train station, then to destination.

Well, for a chart that compares multiple cities what would be better than city center? Considering the location of the airport is going to change for each city, using the city center is in most cases going to minimize the variability for comparing between very different geographical areas. How would you calculate the travel times so as to reduce that error term?
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Since our train , such as it is goes up island in the morning and only to Courtnay where they lost interest in laying track and turns around right away to go back to Victoria it is not much use to residents. The weekly four car freight is rather quaint. There are no trains that go where I want to go anyway. Took two in my life. Once from Vancouver to Winterpeg. Took about a year. The other time was from Vancouver to Kamloops. Took 12 hours to do a four hr. drive. I'll fly.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Well, for a chart that compares multiple cities what would be better than city center? Considering the location of the airport is going to change for each city, using the city center is in most cases going to minimize the variability for comparing between very different geographical areas. How would you calculate the travel times so as to reduce that error term?

The bias is built in, now can you imagine 8,000,000 people in New York living in the city centre, it would be pretty crowded. If they took the average time to travel to the city centre from the outlying areas, where real people have to travel to or from at least once on their trip, (because not many folks live in downtown office buildings) it might not only be not so lopsided but may have a little reality thrown in. As it is, yes the variability between cities is minimized, but not when comparing apples to oranges.