Do you believe in EVIL?
- Thread starter s_lone
- Start date
I don't believe the Bible is the work of some fictitious deity.
Like the one that says men will put on flesh and breath again rather than those verses pointing to men starting to believe, like that 'error'? Get a grip, you don't even know what the Bible says, how can you judge if it is a valid document or not? They are believers because Christ is pulling them out of physical death.
That is an easy subject, anybody who reads those verses will say it is a lot of people being resurrected back to life. What POV do you get by reading the 1st 12 verses of Ezekiel 37, flesh or spirit?
But if murder were really absolutely wrong under all circumstances, there'd be *no* conceivable justification for it. But there are justifications for it under certain circumstances, therefore it's not absolutely wrong. You're still arguing on the side that you think you're not.
Okay, minor semantic quibble: you believe it's the work of a real deity. But you cannot demonstrate the reality of that deity, and you know it, and you also know, as the one making the claim, that the burden of proof is on you. What is claimed without proof can be dismissed without proof.
And where does said standard come from? How is possible that the notion that murder is wrong stay with man since as long as we know?
Alleywayz
I think you would have to take into account the collective consciousness of the human species.As hunting is an instinctual necessity that throws back to the caves, the wrongness of murder goes back to when it was necessary to preserve the species in its infancy. The heart of man, as a compassionate motivator, is a recent development in human behaviour. We are barely out of the caves emotionally and intellectually. God was an invention of early man to explain what he could not understand. Now that we have developed science, gods have outlived their purpose.
Alleywayz
I think you would have to take into account the collective consciousness of the human species.As hunting is an instinctual necessity that throws back to the caves, the wrongness of murder goes back to when it was necessary to preserve the species in its infancy. The heart of man, as a compassionate motivator, is a recent development in human behaviour. We are barely out of the caves emotionally and intellectually. God was an invention of early man to explain what he could not understand. Now that we have developed science, gods have outlived their purpose.
Well Dex, that would seem to be an issue you would have to take up with the writers, ask them where they got their info. Why are you asking me for proof when I'm just a reader? Why do I believe them, nobody has shown that any of them have ever been deceptive about anything. What kind of rebuttal could you possibly have for somebody who says "I was there."? LOL
What kind of rebuttal could you possibly have for somebody who says "I was there."?
Go to any event and pick out ten witnesses and ask each of them what happened. You will get ten different stories. That is how reliable an eye witness account the bible is. Like history, it is just his-story.
Go to any event and pick out ten witnesses and ask each of them what happened. You will get ten different stories. That is how reliable an eye witness account the bible is. Like history, it is just his-story.
Really, do you think any Chiefs lost their lives in battles with somebody from the next generation? Stealing women from neighboring tribes would have been viewed as a necessity.
Barely out of the caves and the first task is to write the most complex and engrossing book ever written and take about 3,000 years to do it. LOL
Ah yes, compassionate man, wonder how many times all the commandments are broken in a normal 24hr day?
Do modern day trials allow for first-hand testimony, of course they do. In the case of the Bible eye-witness testimony is even better than Jesus writing everything down Himself.
Your memoirs about a year in your life would probably be somewhat different than the same time covered by 5 close friends and 5 who just had no use for you.
Since the old testament was written in captivity in Babylon and the bible only put together around 300 AD, I think it was written in a lot less that three thousand years. (I don't know the exact dates of their stay in Babylon).
man is a duality - good and bad, Yin and Yang. One moment capable of great acts of kindness and mass murder in another, This is particularly evident in the armed forces.
man is a duality - good and bad, Yin and Yang. One moment capable of great acts of kindness and mass murder in another, This is particularly evident in the armed forces.
Your memoirs about a year in your life would probably be somewhat different than the same time covered by 5 close friends and 5 who just had no use for you.
And all would be biased and inaccurate.
And all would be biased and inaccurate.
There seems to have been books back as far as this point,
Ex:24:7:
And he took the book of the covenant,
and read in the audience of the people:
and they said,
All that the LORD hath said will we do,
and be obedient.
The 70 weeks of Daniel would cover 490 years so that would be about 460BC and their captivity lasted 70 years so we are about 500BC.
Things might have gotten copied over but to think there were no writings before then is based on what? All the time they were in Jerusalem before Neb came and they never thought to write anything down, I don't believe you.
There is more than one resource that puts the (1st) 5 books back about 1400BC.
Amos is dated back to about 760BC
Daniel about 540BC
Ezekiel about 590BC
Isaiah about 700BC
I can get dates for some other book but I don't know that it would serve any sort of purpose.
So if all 11 accounts were read nobody would have a clue as to what happened in that year?
Your clumping murder of innocent victims with justified actions! Murder is not absolutely wrong in ALL circumstances, but it is absolutely wrong to take the life of a innocent person. We all know murder of innocent people is wrong, there no question about it. Knowing that AND having to justify killing in some situations shows us how seriously we do value life, and that we truly know that murder of innocent lives is wrong.
If morality truly was relative we wouldn't value life like we do, and we wouldn't have a need to justify actions such as self defense. And we wouldn't have the right to condemn acts of murders. Thats not relative morality. That's appealing and comparing to an unchanging, objective moral code or law.
As for what side I am arguing on, I pretty clear where I stand. I haven't finished my main argument yet, discussing what objective morality means, how we all use it, and the confusions between people's behavior/disagreements and absolute values.
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I can get dates for some other book but I don't know that it would serve any sort of purpose.
Absolutely none. And what source do you use to determine when any of these books was written besides the bible? Almost all the stories in the OT were borrowed from the other cultures.
So if all 11 accounts were read nobody would have a clue as to what happened in that year?
They might have a clue but they wouldn't know the truth.
Absolutely none. And what source do you use to determine when any of these books was written besides the bible? Almost all the stories in the OT were borrowed from the other cultures.
So if all 11 accounts were read nobody would have a clue as to what happened in that year?
They might have a clue but they wouldn't know the truth.
we truly know that murder of innocent lives is wrong.
That is not true in all cultures. This does not account for human sacrifice or ritualistic cannibalism. Both were practiced by both primitive and highly civilized societies. We think it is repulsive now but it wasn't always and some may still be practiced in secret because of present day taboos.
That is not true in all cultures. This does not account for human sacrifice or ritualistic cannibalism. Both were practiced by both primitive and highly civilized societies. We think it is repulsive now but it wasn't always and some may still be practiced in secret because of present day taboos.
LOL God considers these things (dating) as trivial. For other books scro;; down to related topics.
Book of Joel - Bible Survey
Sorry to hear that, really, as 1 of the 11 was your own personal account of that year. Perhaps the writers of the Bible were a bit more honest than that, or is honesty another myth?
Morning scratch.
I'm sure it is an over-site on Cliffy's part that he forgot one of the reports was supposed to be his own. In reality because of personal bias (overestimation on how 'great' we really are) that report should be taken with a grain of salt if the persons character is an unknown.
I'm sure it is an over-site on Cliffy's part that he forgot one of the reports was supposed to be his own. In reality because of personal bias (overestimation on how 'great' we really are) that report should be taken with a grain of salt if the persons character is an unknown.