I hear you. What I mean by minimal Gov't involvement is minimal tax involvement and little to no Gov't management as Gov't's are horrible managers compared to the general market in the private sector.
do something about plastic
- Thread starter Hoid
- Start date
I hear you too and I agree that governments are often poor managers. I don't agree that management of other types of enterprise is necessarily better - except perhaps in making money, but often not even then. I've seen some really horrible examples of cheating, waste & downright stupidity in the management of big, apparently "successful" businesses.
I hope to get back to the ideas you floated about dealing with plastic waste but it's past 5am & time for another attempt at sleep.
I find it wildly amusing that self professed "free thinkers" on this site are the ones most likely to come up with costly and cumbersome
solutions to all of the problems of society- using huge gobs of other peoples money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These self professed types AINT FREE AND AINT THINKING much either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is an article illustrating the true price of some popular products! With some comments of my own in brackets):
Samsung apologizes for workers' sicknesses, deaths
From Associated Press
Published: November 23, 2018. Updated: November 23, 2018 9:08 AM EST
Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ News/ World
Kinam Kim, President & CEO, Device Solutions, Samsung Electronics apologizes in Seoul, South Korea, Friday, Nov. 23, 2018. Samsung Electronics has apologized for the sickness and deaths of some of its workers, saying it failed to create a safe working environment at its computer chip and display factories.
(These are the kind of work practices that produce things like batteries for the electric toy cars that LIE-berals want to force on us so they can collect more gravy from electricity price gouging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(Batteries for Tesla cars are produced in United States and there have been several work stoppages due to unexpectedly high levels of toxic Lithium dust! And people in neighboring communities in Nevada have complained about Lithium dust blowing out of the Tesla site - which prompted visits from safety inspectors and some changes to production and material handling methods!)
The announcement by the South Korean technology giant came weeks after the company and a group representing ailing Samsung workers agreed to accept compensation terms suggested by a mediator and end a highly-publicized standoff that went on for more than a decade. The company’s apology was part of the settlement.
(Clearly there is great value in a free press and honest govt not tied to closely to corporate influences!! Govt ought to be referee and regulator and not promoter of biz! When govt becomes partners with biz- it takes on the same morality as biz!! The Samsung pollution went on for over a decade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(WE Cdns should be very concerned about LIE-berals getting to close and cozy with electric Toy car makers since LIE-beral greed for gravy will blind LIE-berals to any potential faults or flaws in production and design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(And it is also worth recalling that Wynne-bag Ontari-owe LIE-berals did a GRAND DEAL with Samsung and others to make solar panels and wind generators here- and LIE-berals DID NOT GET the level of job creation or investment that they expected! Reality was so far off the LIE-beral expectations that they invoked several penalty clauses in their contracts and grabbed back several billion dollars - but left several billions more in the hands of business- who HAD NOT EARNED IT!! But LIE-berals continued to INSIST to the public that it was still a great deal in spite of so few promises being lived up to by business!!!!!)
Kinam Kim, president of Samsung’s device solutions division, said the company failed to “sufficiently manage health threats” at its semiconductor and liquid crystal display manufacturing lines. As detailed in Associated Press reporting over the past decade, dozens of employees who worked there have experienced grave illnesses such as leukemia and brain tumors.
(Sadly a lot of kids will read this stuff and simply assume it is representative of the ills of capitalism! Who will tell the kids that the Socialist solution to complaints is to SHOOT the complainers?? Winston Churchill said it best when he observed: “that capitalism and democracy look bad- until one compares them to the alternatives”!! Socialism of the LIE-beral sort IS THE PROBLEM - NOT the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(Kids who think that Socialism offers greater hope and options than capitalism have been LIED TO in the most terrible fashion!! Only those who do not know history can seriously support Socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
“We offer our sincere apology to our workers who have suffered with illnesses and their families,” Kim said during a news conference in Seoul, which was also attended by activists and relatives of the workers.
But while cutting a deal and loosely admitting to lapses in safety standards, Samsung has yet to fully acknowledge its workplace environment as the direct cause of the illnesses.
The standoff began in 2007 when taxi driver Hwang Sang-gi refused to accept a settlement after his 23-year-old daughter died of leukemia after working at a Samsung factory. Hwang’s efforts to clarify the cause of Yu-mi’s death and hold Samsung responsible for problems related to working conditions galvanized a broader movement to hold businesses and the government accountable for safety lapses in the chip and display industries, which use huge amounts of chemicals.
The South Korean govt has been working hard and made many partnerships with Biz- and it leads to gvit not being aggressive with solutions to corporate problems!!!!)
“No apology would be enough when considering the deception and humiliation we experienced (from Samsung) over the past 11 years, the pain of suffering from occupational diseases, the pain of losing loved ones,” Hwang said at the news conference. “But I take today’s apology as a promise from Samsung Electronics,” to improve the safety of its workplaces, he said.
According to the settlement, Samsung will compensate for various illnesses of employees who have worked at its chip and LCD factories since 1984, including as much as 150 million won ($132,000) for leukemia. The compensation also covers miscarriages and congenital illnesses of the workers’ children such as child cancer.
(A “gift” of $132 grand sounds pretty paltry for the life of 23 year old girl!! But if the company paid out millions it would not survive and jobs would be LOST! This Samsung deal is sounding rather like the Lavalin MESS one might think?? It’s a govt mandated cover up of corruption just to save jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Since 2008, dozens of workers have sought occupational safety compensation from the government. Few won compensation, mostly after years of court battles. Half the remaining claims were rejected and half remain under review.
(And all of this pain and suffering could have been avoided if only govt referees had made their influence known!! But modern govt has become more interested in corporate profits than in safety standards!! One only has to think of the Listeria Scandal that occurred here in Ontari-owe simply because Maple Leaf foods never bothered to disassemble one of their meat handling machines to clean it properly- nobody bothered to ask what cutting surfaces inside the machine MIGHT be getting poisonous from lack of cleaning - and as a result people DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Families of the victims often have depleted their savings and sold their homes to pay hospital bills. Some workers end up incapacitated and unable to work.
(Its too bad that kids will read this stuff without understanding that it is ONLY the capitalist system that will ALLOW public hearings on this sort of stuff!! Socialists think it is best to bury both the victims AND the truth!!!!!!!!!)
I only recently discovered that the bulk of goods we throw in the recycle bin end up in the landfill. There are also products like glass that is recycleable that are not allowed in the blue bin. With this in mind I am wondering if our so called recycling program is anything more than an expensive feel good project?
IMHO the best solution is to move away from cheap disposable products made in foreign countries and excessive packaging.
IMHO the best solution is to move away from cheap disposable products made in foreign countries and excessive packaging.
Oh.........dont worry......................
people like HOID and VIBC think we ought to go back to ploughing and planting and harvesting BY HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If LIE-berals get their way - then we are likely to see them BAN the use of horses on the farm since it would constitute animal abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The people at PETA tell us that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides.....................banning the use of horses will make more work for people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And WE KNOW LIE-berals are dedicated to creating "good jobs" for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals are SO DEDICATED to creating jobs that they see nothing wrong with LYING about our "booming economy" so there will be more Fake Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those LONG work days in the harsh summer sun will nicely LIMIT the amount of whining and complaining we can do about LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look how hard it was for Caesar Chavez or organize his farm workers union!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exhausted people have no time for organizing against oppressors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After all- LIE-berals are Socialists and such people follow the Soviet model in all things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meaning they like to send complainers out to the farm to do the dirty work of shoveling pig shit and etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is really quite ODD how sincerely LIE-berals believe in hard work and exercise.....................................
FOR OTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh taxslave.........................you are talking CLUELESS FEEL GOOD CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excessive packaging is a SMALL part of our problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I have pointed out in the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Example: glass bottles that held pasta sauce CANNOT BE RECYCLED if they have ANY FOOD RESIDUE in them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Example: coffee cups and other drink contains that are waxed to keep the liquids from soaking through the paper- the wax on any paper product prevents it from being recycled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Example: things like those coffee pods that fit into your coffee maker- they ARE NOT RECYCLABLE even though they are MARKED as being recyclable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is currently NO legislation to prevent companies from marking non recyclable product as being suitable for blue bin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Along the way- has anybody counted up how much FOSSIL FUEL we are burning to send those huge truck shuffling through our cities to collect blue box crap..............................
then truck the crap to a recycling centre where huge magnets and shredders separate out metal and such.........................
then assorted machines use gravity feeds to shift out lighter from heavier bulk................................
then minimum wage human pickers stand by a conveyor belt and pick out the contaminants.........................
and think of the electricity bill to drive all the machines doing the sorting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then think of the fuel bills to do all the transporting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
THEN all this sorted crap is loaded onto trucks and driven away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most goes to a landfill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But SOME gets trucked to a sea port and loaded on a diesel powered ship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And gets hauled off to China or Pakistan.........................................
or some such place....................................................
to be further sorted and refined.........................
because after all the collecting and sorting and shipping.........................................
it is NOT ECONOMICAL FOR CDNS to personally recycle that material!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The actual recycling is done by foreign peasants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals are taking advantage of CHEAP OIL PRICES to send their Fake recycling crap FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To be dealt with by others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At huge environmental costs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who then use the plastic and paper to package the sneakers and shirts and etc they are making and ship it back to us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE COULD save a lot of money.........................................
and get MORE STUFF recycled if LIE-berals "encouraged us" to do our own sorting and cleaning of recyclable materials at home in exchange for deposits on the containers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Less corporate paid material handling in huge buildings means lower recycling cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that will not happen for several reasons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many Cdns will complain about the time and cost of sorting their own crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even as they DEMAND that LIE-berals solve the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And of course LIE-berals NEED the votes of all those people involved in the recycling feel good fakery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And of course the companies that collect the recycling are some of the biggest corporations in North America..........................
and what LIE-beral would ever SHUN donations to the party from supporters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After all...................we need to recall that the Lavalin scandal got rolling in the first place because of the $100 million dollars in ILLEGAL political contributions made by Lavalin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals would CLEARLY rather risk going to jail than shun political donations to the party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So the blue box bullsh+t will endure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mostly agree that recycling programs are a bit strange. I believe glass doesn't get recycled - here at least - because there's no market for it. (Not a good argument for the free market.
) Why we have to separate glass in the recycle bin, I don't know.With plastic, 'moving away' does seem best: Much of it is not reusable and I think all of it depends on oil. But getting off plastic will be very difficult. So much of what we use is made from it and would otherwise be more expensive (but more durable?) All those 'cheap' greenhouses of plastic tubing with vinyl covering would be wood or steel, and glass, Those last two are very costly in terms of the energy needed to make them, and don't have obvious substitutes.
As for packaging I think a first move could be to force sellers to take it back. Somewhere I read that the London Drug Co will do that but I can't confirm that - it seems unlikely.
here is a primer on electro-hydraulics.
https://www.thomsonlinear.com/downl...ulic_to_Electric_Actuator_Conversion_taen.pdf
if I was a person who owned a business that needed to constantly improve efficiencies (like say farming) I would at least have an understanding of what was out there
https://www.thomsonlinear.com/downl...ulic_to_Electric_Actuator_Conversion_taen.pdf
if I was a person who owned a business that needed to constantly improve efficiencies (like say farming) I would at least have an understanding of what was out there
Here is an article on two electric tractors out of California currently for sale in Canada.
https://www.producer.com/2019/04/electric-tractors-hit-canadian-fields-with-a-whir/
"Neither tractor uses hydraulics. Instead, Heckeroth uses electric linear actuators. The ones he installs provide 1,000 pounds of dynamic load and 3,000 lb. static loads.
“We use linear actuators because they are 20 times more efficient than hydraulics and require no toxic fluids,” Heckeroth said.
https://www.producer.com/2019/04/electric-tractors-hit-canadian-fields-with-a-whir/
"Neither tractor uses hydraulics. Instead, Heckeroth uses electric linear actuators. The ones he installs provide 1,000 pounds of dynamic load and 3,000 lb. static loads.
“We use linear actuators because they are 20 times more efficient than hydraulics and require no toxic fluids,” Heckeroth said.
Cable is dangerous to work around and costly to repair. That could be the price to pay for doing away with the need for hydraulic oil. There's a cost for everything we do.
Or - ?? Are there viable - possibly more costly - vegetable or animal oil alternatives.
Ah - just saw Hoid's post about tractors with electric actuators; very interesting.
Or - ?? Are there viable - possibly more costly - vegetable or animal oil alternatives.
Ah - just saw Hoid's post about tractors with electric actuators; very interesting.
SO nothing useable. Do you have any idea how little a 40 hp tractor is? Or how little it can lift with only a 100 lb ram? This is lawn mower size.
Electric actuators have been around for decades. They have their place. Mobile equipment such as a front end loader or a backhoe isn't one of them.
I though I read 1000lb. (Misplaced decimal is the commonest mathematical error
)But anyway, the point I want to make is that if we decided to get away from mineral oil ways would be found to do it. They could be more costly or maybe, in the long run, not.
I mostly agree that recycling programs are a bit strange. I believe glass doesn't get recycled - here at least - because there's no market for it. (Not a good argument for the free market.
With plastic, 'moving away' does seem best: Much of it is not reusable and I think all of it depends on oil. But getting off plastic will be very difficult. So much of what we use is made from it and would otherwise be more expensive (but more durable?) All those 'cheap' greenhouses of plastic tubing with vinyl covering would be wood or steel, and glass, Those last two are very costly in terms of the energy needed to make them, and don't have obvious substitutes.
As for packaging I think a first move could be to force sellers to take it back. Somewhere I read that the London Drug Co will do that but I can't confirm that - it seems unlikely.
PEABRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact that so many things ARE NOT RECYCLED is an EXCELLENT ARGUMENT in favour of capitalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capitalism is designed to make the maximum number of goods and services available at the lowest prices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is the job of govt to make sure that capitalists perform their work in a fashion that is safe and reliable for the public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The disposal of toxic items OUGHT to be part of the price of the item but is NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
And is it not VERY SAD that our LIE-beral govt IS TELLING SO VERY MANY LIES about the environment and about recycling and the economy generally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for making manufacturers take back their used products!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The KEY is to make products that ARE EASY to recycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In that we have FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And LIE-berals DO NOT CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIE-berals are too busy using environmental issues as a SMOKE SCREEN to hide their gravy grabbing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cdn retailers have ALREADY refused to accept back heaps of food contaminated containers that will SMELL BAD in summer heat and will attract Rodents in cooler weather!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for things such as computer parts - which VERY OFTEN contain heavy toxic metals........................................
the Yankees HAVE ALREADY TRIED ............................................
through the World Trade Organization..............................................
to force computer chip and component manufacturers to accept back worn out electrical parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the Yankees HAVE FAILED to make manufacturers do anything about recycling their stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter unless it's sitting in the seat of a tractor then it needs hydraulics in the farm equipment
Hahahahahaha comparing off road vehicles to farm equipment your hilarious
What am I going to do with 40hp cut my lawn? Actually might have to look into for cutting the lawn thanks no good for farming large acres though couldn't even pull a set of harrows
Do you have a clue why the whole industry went away from cable? If it was a viable option it would still be used
Again if other types of oil was viable it would be commonly used there is a reason like breakdown of viscosity, plugging filters, contaminating the entire system.
Read his article they are for off road vehicles not practicable for heavy equipment
I also pipeline do you have recommendations for that too?
What do you do for a living so I can give you recommendations for changes to make in your job