Dexter Sinister said:
See my note re Jones. Nobody criticized its inconsistency more than he did.;-)
Did Jesus Struggle Like you Do?
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
See my note re Jones. Nobody criticized its inconsistency more than he did.;-)
sanctus said:
What evidence are you referring to? The only 'evidence' you presented proved my argument!
BTW, thanks for proving my case.
I really don't give a **** what you believe even if it is way too bookish for my blood.
This point can be argued without ever coming to an agreement, and I can tell you why.
The purpose of Jesus' rejection by both the Jews and the Muslims as the Messiah God, is because there is a third party that was out of the picture that needed to be included.
Ant that third party was the Gentiles.
A sacrifice, or a payment had to be made (for the consequences of becoming flesh, which caused the spirit soul of mankind to die eternally, for the reversal of that effect,)by having the Jewish High priest make the offering of a sacrificial lamb. In this case, the offering was the body of Jesus.
That is the reason why the Jews and the Muslims consider Jesus only as a prophet.
The gentiles on the other hand were more apt to believe for they were free of religious persuasions.
I would say that you would be more apt to believe in the mercies of God then one who has been brainwashed to believe otherwise.
You have judged God by the bad behavior of mankind then by the good that God does for mankind.
Get up in the morning early, brew up some coffee, sit outside early and see what all God has given you to enjoy.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
.
BitWhys said:
It's OK by me -- go ahead and believe what you want. But if you want me to believe anything other than the truth you will have to supply proof.
BTW, do you still believe that are WMD in Iraq?
We have a war because people chose to believe without proof. See what happens when evidence is not presented?
The purpose of Jesus' rejection by both the Jews and the Muslims as the Messiah
Again, you have made a declarative statement without proof. Did you not see where the Koran specifically identifies Jesus as Messiah?
Take off the blinders and see the truth for what it is.
You have judged God by the bad behavior of mankind
The Bible clearly states that God is the EXCLUSIVE creator of all evil in Isaiah 45:7. Or are you telling me that the Bible also does not say what it says????
It is just absolutely stunning that people simply refuse to see what has been clearly and unequivocally presented to them. No wonder Bush and his fellow liars so easily brainwash people -- they just won't see the proof that is plainly staring them in the face. AMAZING!!
Again, you have made a declarative statement without proof. Did you not see where the Koran specifically identifies Jesus as Messiah?
Take off the blinders and see the truth for what it is.
You have judged God by the bad behavior of mankind
The Bible clearly states that God is the EXCLUSIVE creator of all evil in Isaiah 45:7. Or are you telling me that the Bible also does not say what it says????
It is just absolutely stunning that people simply refuse to see what has been clearly and unequivocally presented to them. No wonder Bush and his fellow liars so easily brainwash people -- they just won't see the proof that is plainly staring them in the face. AMAZING!!
That's a mighty low blow considering I never did. Was that supposed to hurt or something?
now I actually do feel sorry for you. not that I'll lose sleep over it.
I can tell by the pile of dust from the sandals of better people than I, a pile that sits at the edge of that little world you live in like a trophy, that trying to puncture that thick skin of your's isn't worth the bother.
You are saddly uninformed. Waste of time, but again:1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES
Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.
The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:
"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).
2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES
Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.
"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).
3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES
The Quran says:
"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).
It should also be noted about his birth that:
"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).
4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES
"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).
5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES
Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.
"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).
6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO
Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.
God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:
"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).
7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO
"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).
The Quran also states:
"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).
8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO
"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157)
BitWhys said:
Ah, c'on -- just pulling your leg. It was only meant as a slight jab to those who take things too seriously without demanding proof.
Don't sweat it -- promise?
Let's be pals agin.:smile:
sanctus,
I can cut and paste just like you do. But the point is that the Koran clearly says he is Messiah. Case closed.
I can cut and paste just like you do. But the point is that the Koran clearly says he is Messiah. Case closed.
Just as an example, you can cut and paste from farsinet an article that proves Jesus is mentioned in the Koran 25 times and is "The greatest and most supreme in this world and beyond". And just how does the New Testament describe him?
In precisely the same way!
In precisely the same way!
