David Suzuki: Climate change deniers are almost extinct

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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In all the years of this green crap and recycling, I've NEVER heard of a blue box program or any program that recycles cotton. The cotton industry must have way better lobbiests than forestry.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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thepeacecountry
You may be interested in this Ontario programme to plant 50 million trees by 2020. I understand that it is doing fairly well.

Trees Ontario: 50 Million Tree Program

Thanks Cabbagesandking, kind of a partnership with local landowners to reduce the costs of planting. And part of the UNs billion tree program to reduce the effects of CO2 released. I remember hearing about the latter kind of vaguely so it is good to hear that some jurisdictions are trying anyway.

The Peace River districts have been called the biggest clearcut in Canada, as land since the turn of the 20 century was turned to agriculture. I have looked at getting involved in sequestration projects through replanting trees but haven't been impressed with the benefits in this area. Hope they are better down there.

Your source for this is suspect. Been in the forest industry most of my life and I know what the obligations are for logging and reforestation.
Eventually someone will come up with a cheap or at least acceptable energy source other than fosil fuel and Nuclear. The oil companies spend lots on this problem because they are actually energy providers. Does not matter to them what the energy source is as long as they can make a buck off it. We have several hundred years worth of coal in the ground so it might as well be used before it becomes worthless. Every year there is some progress on making fossil fuels more efficient and clean burning. Who knows what might happen next year?

I'm still more concerned about profitable reuse of materials we throw out as I believe this is of far more immediate concern than a bit of CO2.

I kind of look at a lot of our problems as being part and parcel of a sustainability challenge. re-use of materials is an important aspect of that.

I understand that oil companies are looking into alternatives, their future profits depend on their ability to adapt. But I also know that they do not have a similar interest in conservation of energy because that is the antithesis of energy profits. As homeowners and business people though profits come out of saving energy. I also believe that some forms of alternative energy are too dispersed for oil companies used to near monopolistic power over their consumers, solar power for heating and hotwater, for lighting and cooking come to mind as examples. Businesses which could be, and are starting to develop in BC, and I expect across Canada.

In all the years of this green crap and recycling, I've NEVER heard of a blue box program or any program that recycles cotton. The cotton industry must have way better lobbiests than forestry.

So you have never heard of the SallyAnn? or rags? or street buyers and sellers of old clothes that have been at the business back into antiquity? How about that.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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More trees should be planted than are being harvested, just to catch up with the need for sequestration. In that sense it isn't relevant to when a tree is cut. It would be a good idea to plant before cutting the tree. In fact it would be a really good idea for example to plant a thousand trees for every one that is cut to make room for mining more bitumen from the tar sands.

You need to pay attention to the real world instead of truther blogs. The vast majority of seeds are planted well before the tree they are to replace is cut. Trees are generally planted at 2-3 years old and most sites are planted within 1 year of logging. I will clarify that a bit. Not all sites require replanting. Hemlock for example almost never needs to be planted and often if some restocking in hemlock is required it will be wetter areas and will get cedar seedlings or in some cases alder.
As I said before the real problem is with areas that are burned and paved. You just can't put more trees in a tree farm to make up for that.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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And then there would be those that're sick to death of the doom & gloom
preach'n along with dismissive attitudes with anyone who objects or
questions the Global Warming/Cooling/Changing/Settled-Science mantra,
and just want to get through the conversation/pole/whatever and get on
with their day so answer whatever to avoid aother doom & gloom lecture.


Yah, there could be some of those. I look at it the same way I mentioned earlier about water problems. People are fed up with having to cut back on water, so city administrators are pointing out that the alternative is going to be worse. So, doom and gloom lectures, or the real thing.

You need to pay attention to the real world instead of truther blogs. The vast majority of seeds are planted well before the tree they are to replace is cut. Trees are generally planted at 2-3 years old and most sites are planted within 1 year of logging. I will clarify that a bit. Not all sites require replanting. Hemlock for example almost never needs to be planted and often if some restocking in hemlock is required it will be wetter areas and will get cedar seedlings or in some cases alder.
As I said before the real problem is with areas that are burned and paved. You just can't put more trees in a tree farm to make up for that.

Cabbagesand kings pointed us to a program that is doing just that though. The UN billion tree program is capable to mitigate the loss of forests and the production of CO2 from fossil fuels. Do you have a link to the logging practices, replanting and restocking?
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Yah, there could be some of those. I look at it the same way I mentioned earlier about water problems. People are fed up with having to cut back on water, so city administrators are pointing out that the alternative is going to be worse. So, doom and gloom lectures, or the real thing.

It is not so much that there is a shortage of water. More like cities just didn't grow up where the best water supply is and the cost of piping it in is prohibitive. Cities in N.America need too do much more towards recycling their grey water. It is just plain stupid to have expensive treated water running down the driveway just to have a lawn that has to be mowed every week. Or using 5 gallons of treated water to flush a pint of pee.
 

beaker

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Jun 11, 2012
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It is not so much that there is a shortage of water. More like cities just didn't grow up where the best water supply is and the cost of piping it in is prohibitive. Cities in N.America need too do much more towards recycling their grey water. It is just plain stupid to have expensive treated water running down the driveway just to have a lawn that has to be mowed every week. Or using 5 gallons of treated water to flush a pint of pee.

I agree completely.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Yah, there could be some of those. I look at it the same way I mentioned earlier about water problems. People are fed up with having to cut back on water, so city administrators are pointing out that the alternative is going to be worse. So, doom and gloom lectures, or the real thing.



Cabbagesand kings pointed us to a program that is doing just that though. The UN billion tree program is capable to mitigate the loss of forests and the production of CO2 from fossil fuels. Do you have a link to the logging practices, replanting and restocking?

BC Government ministry of forests. Not sure how much is on their website that you can access. Maybe all of it. I haven't been following it all that close for the last couple of years. A lot of the info may be rather confusing if you don't have a good grasp of silviculture. That was never my end of logging so I trusted the "experts". Not sure if that was a good idea or not either since these are the people that gave us superfir. Grows like a bitch but has such big growth rings it doesn't even make good pulp. Then there was the "expert" that decided planting hybred poplar with a 15 year crop rotation was a good idea. NOT. One thing I know for sure is that the industry was a lot better managed when it was run by loggers instead of bean counters and pension funds.
That UN program is in third world countries that have practiced rape and run forestry or short term agriculture. I haven't heard what the results are for quite a while.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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BC Government ministry of forests. Not sure how much is on their website that you can access. Maybe all of it. I haven't been following it all that close for the last couple of years. A lot of the info may be rather confusing if you don't have a good grasp of silviculture. That was never my end of logging so I trusted the "experts". Not sure if that was a good idea or not either since these are the people that gave us superfir. Grows like a bitch but has such big growth rings it doesn't even make good pulp. Then there was the "expert" that decided planting hybred poplar with a 15 year crop rotation was a good idea. NOT. One thing I know for sure is that the industry was a lot better managed when it was run by loggers instead of bean counters and pension funds.
That UN program is in third world countries that have practiced rape and run forestry or short term agriculture. I haven't heard what the results are for quite a while.

The BC ministry would be a good place to look. Thanks I will do that. I hadn't heard about the superfir, but I have a friend who quickly got less impressed with the hybrid poplar developments. Ontario, and all of Canada has been called the largest third world country, because of our dependence on exporting raw materials.
 

gopher

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beaker,


... how many George Bushes have there been .....







There's only 1 of course ...
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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The BC ministry would be a good place to look. Thanks I will do that. I hadn't heard about the superfir, but I have a friend who quickly got less impressed with the hybrid poplar developments. Ontario, and all of Canada has been called the largest third world country, because of our dependence on exporting raw materials.


I'm having trouble finding Canada (or Ontario) being called the largest third world country anywhere.
Tried Google and Google but no luck.

Who, where, is doing this?
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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thepeacecountry



There's only 1 of course ...

:) at that, let us pray

I'm having trouble finding Canada (or Ontario) being called the largest third world country anywhere.
Tried Google and Google but no luck.

Who, where, is doing this?

I don't remember where, just now. I will try to come up with it if it is important. Our export bias in our economy for a hundred and forty-five years, our apparent never ending need to import cash to develop our resources, it all adds up to our not receiving enough for our exports to develop our own economy. Like other third world countries.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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So you have never heard of the SallyAnn? or rags? or street buyers and sellers of old clothes that have been at the business back into antiquity? How about that.
That's not recycling it's upcycling. Dont you greens know your ass from a hole in the ground? I'm 5 blocks from a Salvation Army Thrift Store. If it's not resellable, they won't accept it nor do they accept anything for recyling. Once the impoverished are done with the cotton then what? Srtraight to the landfill.

How do you like that?

I don't remember where, just now. I will try to come up with it if it is important. .
Crack on it pumpkin.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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thepeacecountry
That's not recycling it's upcycling. I'm 5 bloks from a Salvation Army Thrift Store. If it's not resellable, they won't accept it nor do they accept anything for recyling.

How do you like that?

Not much, cycling good clothes back into use can be recycling, upcycling, or motorcycling for all I care, but I'm surprised though that your local store doesn't sell rags, it's a natural for a SallyAnn and others certainly do. Are you sure of your facts on this?

Crack on it pumpkin.

Not on your request gourd.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Rags end up in the garbage. How is possible? Cotton is the harshest crop on the soil. Recyling cotton is far more benefical than planting trees that will rot releasing it's captured CO2 as methane in just 50-60 years from now. Once soil is dead it's dead.

P.S. I pulled in 56 bushels an acre for barley this year. Best crop in quite a few years. CHA CHING!!! That is a ****load of carbon sequestered. Too bad i can't give carbon credits away much less benefit from them.
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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thepeacecountry
So, if climate change deniers are almost extinct, there are probably at least a couple of reasons for that, some have likely learned that the science is valid, that we are launching into the proverbial creek without a paddle, and have wisely decided to look at options for the planet.

And then there would be some who worked for the climate change denier conservation society who have had their zoo supports removed and have changed their opinion out of brutal necessity of making a living.

And then there would be some who haven't got a clue, who can't fathom beyond a certain depth, so to speak, who have volunteered to go down with the ship because they don't realize that there are enough life rafts for everyone. People in short for whom there is little hope.

Extinction is such an ugly word.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
29,448
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Regina, Saskatchewan
:) at that, let us pray



I don't remember where, just now. I will try to come up with it if it is important.


No worries. Not important. Was just curious is all. Was wondering if it
was one of those U.N. Bullshyte statements like Syria blusting about
Canada's human rights violations, etc...
 

beaker

Electoral Member
Jun 11, 2012
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thepeacecountry
No worries. Not important. Was just curious is all. Was wondering if it
was one of those U.N. Bullshyte statements like Syria blusting about
Canada's human rights violations, etc...

It seems to me it was one of the talking heads on a television news program, where I first heard it, then occasionally from other people.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Before you beak off, know what you are beaking off about Beaker.

It was said about Rezs but even Rezs are in better shape than those living in Mexico.

Nobody in Mexico gets monthly cheques, funded post secondary education or free healthcare.