Creation or Evolution?

[look3467]

Since nobody, I mean nobody knows when humanity started we could and can combine creationism with evolution.

Evolution says we evolved out of something, and creationism says we were created at a certain point and looking pretty normal. (Not caveman like)
Well, I agree with both.


But here’s where I see the combination, since the 7 day creation story has no beginning except to say, “In the beginning”, we have no clue just when that beginning was.

And because it is a week of 7 days a story, it only means that God explains it that way, for simplicity that even a child can understand.

But with age, knowledge and revelation, we find as adults that the tree in the garden wasn’t an apple.

The fruit was knowledge of good and evil. A baby is born without knowledge because it has not had the opportunity to learn what good and evil are. So, it has not eaten of the tree, therefore completely innocent as Adam and Eve before the fall.

The fall comes when we learn knowledge of what is good and what is evil.

We also learn that because of this knowledge we have become separated from God and therefore also become as spiritually separated or dead.

Thus all mankind have inherited this spiritual death upon gaining knowledge of good and evil.

What it really means is that we have become like as gods in having a choice between good and evil.
And this cannot stand, therefore must die. There can only be “ONE God”, not many.

But, all hope is not ended yet, for God the Father of all creation, saves us Himself, by making a body that all of us can become part of, and that is the body of Jesus.

In Him we are all saved.

Now where does evolution fit in? Well, at some point in time, God evolved a human being and animals. The: humans with intelligence, and the animals without.

The evolution of the specie, fleshly speaking probably started with the caveman and progressing from there, slowly gaining knowledge of his surroundings and finding out about his spiritual side as well.

The latter I would call spiritual evolution, to what we know today.

I base my views on the whole of the bible as I feel God has given me to understand.

Of course, it does not meet with everybody’s approval, and to some, it is right down heresy, they say.

But to me, it makes perfect sense, and I don’t have an argument. I simply explain it the way I do, and let you all believe what you will.

If I hold the position of creationism only, I condemn evolution. If I hold the position of evolution only, I condemn creationism.

But I neither condemn creationism or evolution, but embrace them both as Gods wonderful work in His wonderful creation a step at a time.

It says in the bible that knowledge will increase. Has it not? Evolution of: knowledge?

So, why be divided and why not start sharing and having love as a common ground.

Therefore: no condemnations!

You see, simple huh? Why do we make it complicated? Because we have to learn to look at it the right way, and that, takes time, trial and error as a learning process.

One day, we will see, we will learn to war no more. Might not see it in the flesh, but we will see it after the flesh.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[china]

Tonington
Creation or evolution? The arrival of Darwinian thought sparked the debate...
Dexter Sinister
Well, the debate's officially over...__________________________
china
and the question is....., was Darwin created or he...... just evolved ?

 

[Pangloss]

Open: perhaps you should take your own advice and read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

That is, if you are indeed open minded. I mean, I'm a humanist, and I've gone to the trouble to study the Old & New Testaments, the Gitas and the Koran. Bloody, evil books all.

Dexter, may I never cross you in debate!

Pangloss

 

[openurmind]

You've gone off the rails already, assuming the truth of what you're trying to make a case for. That's the logical fallacy called begging the question.

That's an illusion due to not looking deeply enough into what's really going on.
No.
It's not. You need only look carefully at its products to understand that.
No they're not. The world got along reasonably well for billions of years before intelligence and knowledge entered it. In fact it was probably better for all species except us before intelligence and knowledge showed up.
Begging the question again.

It seems that you have hard time understanding what I meant when I said “the world is intelligently created. My point is, even before life has existed (Assuming that life existed long after the big bang) there were abandoned signs of intelligence and I am not referring here to an intelligence being rather an intelligence design. Beginning with the structure of the atoms and the intelligent laws that govern them, to the universe as a whole, there is no doubt that it is an intelligent design.

If you examine a leaf, the result could be written in a report as Knowledge about that leaf, and you will discover that the system that governs how the leaf grows and survives is an intelligent system. Now leaves are part of life, they are not intelligent, but they are intelligently created through an intelligent process that is becoming more and more complex with time. So, I do not understand what you mean when you said “intelligence and knowledge showed up” Do you mean the human intelligence? If that is what you meant, then please tell me do you think this world is dumb without the human intelligence?

My idea is simple, and if you think about it for a while, it might make sense to you. What I am trying to say is Knowledge and Intelligence must have existed before our existence and the evidence is right in front of us. All what we humans are doing now is extracting Knowledge that already exists and using our intelligence to understand already existing intelligent systems, such as our brain, and physically transform it to machines, such as computers.

I love debating, I learn a lot from it, so feel from to question me.


Take care,

 

[openurmind]

Open: perhaps you should take your own advice and read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

That is, if you are indeed open minded. I mean, I'm a humanist, and I've gone to the trouble to study the Old & New Testaments, the Gitas and the Koran. Bloody, evil books all.

Dexter, may I never cross you in debate!

Pangloss

Hi Pangloss,

Thanks for the reply, and by the way, I did not mean to advice anyone. I will have a look at The Demon Haunted World, sounds interesting, as for the holly books, I am long done with them.

Thanks

 

[westmanguy]

Consider the following...

The winner is chosen but I still would like to continue...

--> Evolution is a theory with much evidence backing it up
--> Creationism answers somethings that cannot humanly be answered without this ideology.

Consider the following:

We will never be able to scientifically know how all came to be. We can come up with hypothesises (Big Bang hypothosis) but it is impossible to know how everything came to be.

Therefore the only thing that can explain this is a supreme deity that created our world and our life.

---

I believe human life is unique from all other animals on this planet. Humans are not of instinct, we are the most smartest advanced species on our planet. And in my opinion, God created us in his image.

So I do not choose to believe we came from apes.

Now where my belief of evolution comes into play is:

Our world and life was created by God in a 7 day period. Humans were the same from Adam & Eve to what we are now.

Human life has never changed.

But in the scope of things animals are based on instinct and they are here to indirectly serve humans. The world, its atmosphere, its conditions have changed throughout our worlds history. I openly admit that. So I believe due to humans advanced brain, we are not in need of evolving to survice, because our advanced intelligence is all we need.

Humans can survive on our intelligence, we do not depend on gradual evolution.

Animals cannot survive on their limited intelligence, because they are of instinct, therefore they require evolution to survive.

That is my belief on this.

Just consider this before I go off:

With human's intelligence being the most supreior intelligence we know of in this universe, do we need evolution to survive?

In my opinion, no. But animals do.

---------

So in escence these apes that we try to make out our developing into humans, are just an animal going through their evolution. I wonder if their intelligence has improved?

 

[hermanntrude]

did you write that? why the awful font and colour?

There is no dependancy of bing bang theory on evolution. there is also no mutual exclusiveness between creation and evolution.

As for evolution being a theory with little evidence to support it, you can apply that in much larger scale to the theory of the creation of adam and eve, which exists in one book, written by some random stranger two thousand years ago (or more... who wrote genesis anyway? anyone who says God will be ignored)

 

[Tonington]

Hmmmm, wheres my gif?

Animals aren't meant to serve us West, they have been here for many, many years before the smart apes came along, some of our present day cousins who by the by can make tools (take that Homo habilis).

I'm sure you want to change this going on your belief system:

With human's intelligence being the most supreior intelligence we know of in this universe, do we need evolution to survive?

 

[Dezzarai]

ok so evidence shows that humans evolved from early primates, right? well I'm assuming that they got gradually smarter over time, until they became the modern man.this leads me to 2 questions
1) will humans keep evolving until they are much more intelligent and better adapted to there environments?
2) will other animals exmaple the dolphin, become as smart as humans currently are? will they develop their own language systems and societies?

both of these things are possible, even likely if you believe in evolution, aren't they?
(maybe i just like the idea of a race of super dolphins though)

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It seems that you have hard time understanding what I meant when I said “the world is intelligently created.

Not at all, I understood you perfectly well. Understanding doesn't imply agreement. The argument is that there's simply no evidence that supports that position, and if you look closely at how nature actually operates and you're smart enough to understand the evidence--and anyone of at least average intelligence is, who isn't blinded by magical thinking--you'll come to understand there's plenty of evidence to indicate that a non-intelligent, non-directed process is at work. If if really *is* an "intelligent design," I'd have to sharply question the designer's intelligence. He's also pretty sloppy.

You're simply assuming your hypothesis is true, then using that as part of the argument that it's true. That's not valid logic.

 

[Tonington]

Theres many out there who have said the following much better than I: the universe appears intelligent only because we are looking at the end of a long process. Irreducibly complex? I say little knowledge of how genes code and function differently in different biota (speaking strictly from a biological perspective).

What can anyone possibly say is intelligent about the blind spot in your field of vision, or a useless organ (appendix) and the vestigal caecum remaining from when we ate primarilly vegitative matter high in cellulose and starches.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

1) will humans keep evolving until they are much more intelligent and better adapted to there environments?
2) will other animals exmaple the dolphin, become as smart as humans currently are? will they develop their own language systems and societies?

both of these things are possible, even likely if you believe in evolution, aren't they?

They're possible, certainly, depends on the selection pressures humans and dolphins face. Evolution won't tell you anything about the likelihood of them though, evolution has no direction or goal beyond reproductive success, there's no meaningful way to calculate a probability for a particular outcome. About dolphins specifically, about them developing their own language systems and societies, I don't think we can definitively say they haven't already.

 

[darkbeaver]

Okay, so what else has those attributes as they're usually understood?

My cat, and by way of explanation a short story. My cat wants out he goes to the door he wants in he scratches at the door, he wants catfood he goes to the cupboard where is the cat food is I pick up the catfood box he goes to his bowl, when he's hungry or wants something he comes to me. In other words he thinks well before he acts, so he's intelligent, and when he wants a belly rub he thinks about that too. And don't even try to enter instinct into the disscussion. Animals think pretty good. There has been very recently some interesting elephant reserch along the thought and memory line as well.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

My cat....

Fair enough, your cat has a limited degree of intelligence and knowledge. So do mine. Doesn't materially alter my point though.

 

[Liberalman]

This is simple that evolution so far has the most evidence in its favor.

Creationism is a concept that was thought up for the religious crowd.

People asked where did we come from and what will happen to us which prophets said that God made us and we will go to heaven or hell.

We know that everything evolves or adapts in life.

When you read Genesis it is a simple way to explain the concept of evolution because the people at that time were very simple and they needed a simple answer.

Creationism is part of evolution and they can both be taught but you cannot deny evolution because that is the natural laws God worked with.

Some people might say that God is perfect and he knows all but when you read the story of Noah and the flood and God’s plan to get rid of the sinner the plan never worked and there are more sinners today than ever was therefore this is a good example that God is evolving.

Gods plan of the Garden of Eden started six thousand years ago but evolution started in the beginning of time.

 

[savecanada]

Both theories lead back to the same thing. A question. Evolution can be traced back but eventually you are left wondering "what created the big bang?" just as those who believe in Creationism must wonder "what created god". There are of course theories on both. I have often stayed up late into the knight as so many others have trying to figure out why I am here and just like everyone else I never find an awnser. I have come to the realization that it doesn't matter. Creationists are always going to blindly believe in what ever they do and I will always be trying to figure out what started it all.

 

[markymarky68]

You've gone off the rails already, assuming the truth of what you're trying to make a case for. That's the logical fallacy called begging the question.
That's an illusion due to not looking deeply enough into what's really going on.
No.
It's not. You need only look carefully at its products to understand that.
No they're not. The world got along reasonably well for billions of years before intelligence and knowledge entered it. In fact it was probably better for all species except us before intelligence and knowledge showed up.
Begging the question again.

The intelligent thing would be to admit straight up "Nobody knows and there is no way to know"!

 

[Minority Observer84]

we are the most smartest advanced species on our planet. And in my opinion, God created us in his image.

The structure of that sentence alone pokes a whole in our theory .

So I do not choose to believe we came from apes.
Human life has never changed.

You can choose to believe what you wish , doesn't change the truth if you don't believe in it . If I don't believe my smoking habit will kill me do you think i'am immune from lung cancer.

But in the scope of things animals are based on instinct and they are here to indirectly serve humans.

Right the same kind of thinking that lead people to think that blacks serve whites and that women serve men .

So in escence these apes that we try to make out our developing into humans, are just an animal going through their evolution. I wonder if their intelligence has improved?

You obviously haven't read anything about human evolution we are not descendant from apes , we share a common ancestor with apes there is a difference .

 

[Minority Observer84]

ok so evidence shows that humans evolved from early primates, right? well I'm assuming that they got gradually smarter over time, until they became the modern man.this leads me to 2 questions
1) will humans keep evolving until they are much more intelligent and better adapted to there environments?
2) will other animals exmaple the dolphin, become as smart as humans currently are? will they develop their own language systems and societies?

both of these things are possible, even likely if you believe in evolution, aren't they?
(maybe i just like the idea of a race of super dolphins though)

This is quite a simplistic view of evolution the process took millions and millions of years , it was an unpredictable process with many possible outcomes one of which is modern day humans .
So that being the said the answers will have to go something like this ?
1) Possibly , except humans do not really live in the environment anymore , we create our own habitats suited to us as we are now also natural selection doesn't take place at the scale , we take care of the injured and the sick , the strong build for the weak and the smart think for the stupid everyone gets to live these days regardless of their personal merit .
2) Also Possible the fact that process will take so long by the time it happens humanity will probably be extinct .

 

[look3467]

For every side there is an opposite.

The reason it is that way is because we are left to compare.

We have to make a choice.

God/no god, choose.

Regardless of choice, I understand both sides are safe as far as eternal death of the soul is concerned.

But for the mean time, consequences apply to human behavior as personal responsibility.

Given what I know about God, via the bible and history of religious beliefs throughout all the ages, I prefer to believe in God as designer of the whole thing with what ever means humanity thinks it is like.

The mystery of it all is only a mystery where answers are not revealed.

I have no problem with evolutionary thinking as a God believer; for I believe God is above all that humanistic thinking.

I would rather argue things concerning the kingdom of God rather than the kingdoms of mankind.

Of course, that is my choice.

Peace>>>AJ