Creation or Evolution?

[Minority Observer84]

For every side there is an opposite.

The reason it is that way is because we are left to compare.

We have to make a choice.

God/no god, choose.

Regardless of choice, I understand both sides are safe as far as eternal death of the soul is concerned.

But for the mean time, consequences apply to human behavior as personal responsibility.

Given what I know about God, via the bible and history of religious beliefs throughout all the ages, I prefer to believe in God as designer of the whole thing with what ever means humanity thinks it is like.

The mystery of it all is only a mystery where answers are not revealed.

I have no problem with evolutionary thinking as a God believer; for I believe God is above all that humanistic thinking.

I would rather argue things concerning the kingdom of God rather than the kingdoms of mankind.

Of course, that is my choice.

Peace>>>AJ

Again just because you believe something does not make it true . Yes there has been a lot of religious belief through the ages all with different creation stories and myths .
Look at the issue scientifically :

Creationism :
No Proof .

Evolution :
The fossil record
The Fact that the mechanisms for evolution natural selection and macro evolution are both proven and easily observable .
The cellular similarity of all life .

 

[look3467]

Again just because you believe something does not make it true . >>>
Minority Observer84

That is a true statement!

Yes there has been a lot of religious belief through the ages all with different creation stories and myths .>>>
Minority Observer84

I am glad you recognize that, because common sense says that all of them sought something that was beyond them as a belief which caused a multitude of wars.


L

Look at the issue scientifically:

Creationism:
No Proof.

Evolution:
The fossil record
The Fact that the mechanisms for evolution natural selection and macro evolution are both proven and easily observable.
The cellular similarity of all life.>>>
Minority Observer84

Of course the former is by faith only and the latter is by what you see, with the senses.
The former is lodged in the heart of your soul, while the latter is purely physical.

So there lies the distinction, faith/logic.

Matter of choice: as it were from the beginning.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Minority Observer84]

That is a true statement!
So there lies the distinction, faith/logic.
Matter of choice: as it were from the beginning.
Peace>>>AJ

It's what i've been telling you for weeks faith and logic are not contradictory , faith like everything else can be logical and both illogical depending on what it is based on .
And with all due respect i beg to differ there is no choice , when people believe in something irrational and then apply their belief to the world around us they lose the option of using choice as a screen .
There is no individual truth there is no your truth and my truth , there is just truth . This entire movement to teach creationism in a BIOLOGY class in the US is evil .

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

why can't this be true......a long time ago...so long ago we can't remember when...the whole big bang thing happened from one tiny spec filled with wisdom.....and it's been happening ever since with the evolution wisdom contaiend already in that spec from the beginning....this has been happening so long the bible is nothing more than human inspiration, legend, myths, and parables someone figured would help keep the masses from running amuk and getting banned...LOL !!! couldn't resist...sort of a hungover lol thing from being swarmed by lol people....

Back to that spec...all of us here are contained in there, from the first one...and like ever changing energy we keep changing.....

 

[Minority Observer84]

why can't this be true.....

Because the concept of a world existing without god would lead even the dumbest theist sheep to the terrible question .
If God was not needed to start creation could it be possible he was never there ?

 

[talloola]

I, just feel plain 'embarrassed' to know, that many people actually believe that a mythical, invisible
entity made 'us'.

I can't give long impressive explanations for my thoughts, I just feel uncomfortable to know the
above, as it seems SO silly to me, no different than believing in Santa Clause.,

I don't want to make fun of religious believers, I am telling my true thoughts, knowing that the
'god' believers will think poorly of me for that, but it doesn't really matter to me what anyone thinks,
but it seems to mean so much to 'them'.

Gues we'll just have to agree to disagree, and hopefully 'respect' each other for that.

 

[look3467]

It's what i've been telling you for weeks faith and logic are not contradictory , faith like everything else can be logical and both illogical depending on what it is based on .>>> Minority Observer84

I agree with that statement!

And with all due respect i beg to differ there is no choice , when people believe in something irrational and then apply their belief to the world around us they lose the option of using choice as a screen . >>> Minority Observer84

I tend to agree with your assessment to this point, there is a spark of consciences that sets up little warning flags that is trying to tell us that maybe the direction we are heading in may have some dire pit falls.

A suicide bomber did not decide to blow Himself up for the cause with out first contemplating on the thought of it being the right thing to do or not.
That was a point where that person could have changed it’s mind, thus making them responsible for their own actions.

There is no individual truth there is no your truth and my truth , there is just truth . This entire movement to teach creationism in a BIOLOGY class in the US is evil .>>> Minority Observer84

Creationism is a class in 101 for all humanity as it begins to learn from the tree of knowledge.
But one is expected to grow in maturity in the faith as one’s faith grows, through life’s experiences and trials.

My faith as an example has grown to adulthood by which my attitude towards all unbelievers is concerned.

Evil is man made, not God’s.

The potential to do evil is inherent in everyone, and can only be subdued by the good we wish to practice.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I, just feel plain 'embarrassed' to know, that many people actually believe that a mythical, invisible
entity made 'us'.

I can't give long impressive explanations for my thoughts, I just feel uncomfortable to know the
above, as it seems SO silly to me, no different than believing in Santa Clause.,

I don't want to make fun of religious believers, I am telling my true thoughts, knowing that the
'god' believers will think poorly of me for that, but it doesn't really matter to me what anyone thinks,
but it seems to mean so much to 'them'.

Gues we'll just have to agree to disagree, and hopefully 'respect' each other for that.

Your views respected!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[CMCummings]

I am *"The Black King of Creation" *(the single most knowledgeable
of the aggregate of creation A-Z)...

Concerning diversity in its entireity...and the reasons for it...I have written:

"life's Rose"

We come from the menagerie of masters...
...as the moments of man
Not seeking...
...but forever establishing the definition of creation

ARR 12 April 1999

 

[look3467]

I am *"The Black King of Creation" *(the single most knowledgeable
of the aggregate of creation A-Z)...

Concerning diversity in its entireity...and the reasons for it...I relate following:

"life's Rose"

We come from the menagerie of masters...
...as the moments of man
Not seeking...
...but forever establishing the definition of creation

ARR 12 April 1999

But man does seek for the master of his spirit as demonstrated by human history.
Therefore, there must be a master of whom mankind seek.
Otherwise, throwout all the idols of human history.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Minority Observer84]

But man does seek for the master of his spirit as demonstrated by human history.
Therefore, there must be a master of whom mankind seek.
Otherwise, throwout all the idols of human history.

Peace>>>AJ

Man does not seek the master of his spirit , he seeks a practical logical explanation for the state of the world around him , gods and spirits were the best possible reason for this in the past .

 

[look3467]

Man does not seek the master of his spirit , he seeks a practical logical explanation for the state of the world around him , gods and spirits were the best possible reason for this in the past .

Is it not evident that mankind throughout the ages has erected idols to worship as their master?
Made sacrifices to appease these spiritual gods of whom had no life in them.

When idols are made to worship, there is no practical or logical explanation, simply because it is a man made condition.

The bible on the other hand though written in mystery, can only be deciphered by the spirit of God to each individual as the individual seeks truth.

For none believers in God, the bible stories are looked at at face value, while the spirit of the story is hidden from their understanding.
Not being able to see the spirit in the story can only lead to dissatisfaction in the whole God process.

To look at the world around us is to marvel at such creative wisdom displayed, giving the notion that there must be a spiritual entity who is the master of all there is, including mankind.

Creationism is a story of how this master mind created all that there is as a 101 course.
If information such as the what is in the bible is not given to us to decipher, then every thing created will only give us a clue but not give us the true answers.

As for evolution, my thoughts are agreeable with it up until God is left out of the equation.

I believe evolution is a necessary process in the animal kingdom as a survival mechanism.
As for mankind, evolution of the spices evolves mainly on the marriages of the different races which produce smarter and stronger people.

Evolution of religion also has brought about more information based on trial and error throughout the ages, even though it has led to many wars and misconception.

But today, the Internet has opened the door for religious folk to dissect their own beliefs as compared to other beliefs based on new found information.

I am a prime example of this in that I was brought up a strict Christ believing soul, how was given to understand that all none believers were destined to hell unless they came to Jesus.

That is the main gripe of all unbelievers that God would actually send people to burn en hell for ever.

I didn't quite like that Idea so I researched it out in many books, religious beliefs and used the net to expand my search.

I stumbled across a couple of sites which intrigued me only to learn that they too were in their own way isolationist.

Until I found this one site which blew me away by what it said about the bible.

I have studied the bible considerably all my life and in my subconscious, recorded many things I could not understand about the bible, in which this site brought answers to many of them.

I am saying all this so that you all can understand where I am coming from.

I am surely blessed to be able to see the spiritual messages in the bible stories.

But not without a cost. What I see goes against the basic christian belief, against non-believers.

I see all souls regardless of belief as saved from eternal death, by God redeemer man, Jesus.

The bible shows it plainly and clearly if we have the gift to discern it. For the most part, the revelation of information is granted to those who are able to receive it and live responsibly with that information.

I hold the same basic belief of God the Father, Jesus the Son and God's Holy Spirit, but not in the traditional way as witnessed by all Christianity.

I hold that God is a loving Father like figure who cares deeply for all His creatures, even the small sparrow looking for food to feed it's self and it's offspring.

Given the gift of intelligence to reason, mankind is above the animal kingdom as such for the specie to learn to be in God's image through trial and error.
Freeing mankind up from the penalty of eternal separation due to being in the flesh, God has allowed us free choice and in so doing, are accountable only to ourselves for whatever decisions we make.
If bad choices are made in life, we suffer the consequences, but never are our souls in jeopardy of eternal annihilation.

Now, having said all that, I don't have a problem with evolution, but rather a better understanding how God uses evolutionary process to enhance the species that are.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Christian creation? What bunk! Obviously the world was formed by a bird's egg exploding! And birds bring us our souls at when we are born and take them away when we die.

My point: there are many mythologies about the creation of the world. As many as there are civilizations. THe one above is from Finnish mythology. The bird creation idea is as logical and provable a "theory" as the Christian version.

The truth is I don't know. But I don't think it is either creation or evolution. It is proven beyond reasonable doubt that evolution has occured. The rest I will leave up to your faith. Please don't try and pass off your faith as anything that is verifiable. It ain't.

 

[Minority Observer84]

Is it not evident that mankind throughout the ages has erected idols to worship as their master?
Made sacrifices to appease these spiritual gods of whom had no life in them.
When idols are made to worship, there is no practical or logical explanation, simply because it is a man made condition.

That is a bold faced lie . There is a logical explanation and it's self evident when you compare ancient religions people have two basic points in all these religions .
1)They Fear Death and wonder about what happens when they die .
2) They Do not understand the workings of the world around them because of this they believe in a deity to give them an illusion of complete understanding .

For none believers in God, the bible stories are looked at at face value, while the spirit of the story is hidden from their understanding.
Not being able to see the spirit in the story can only lead to dissatisfaction in the whole God process.

The classical cop out , you are aware that the stories in the bible are at best improbable so you assert the claim that they are beyond the understanding of a select few .I have a tested IQ of 150 and am at least as well educated as the vast majority of people my age and better read than most people twice my age if i cannot understand it I assure you it's beyond most people . I say this not to toot my own horn but just to illustrate the point that the story of some guy building a boat to escape a flood is not really all that complex .

To look at the world around us is to marvel at such creative wisdom displayed, giving the notion that there must be a spiritual entity who is the master of all there is, including mankind.

Errr wrong again your perception of this world clearly leaves logic far behind you and is compltly based on what you believe , set that aside and all your arguments are pointless.

Creationism is a story of how this master mind created all that there is as a 101 course.
If information such as the what is in the bible is not given to us to decipher, then every thing created will only give us a clue but not give us the true answers.

Errr wrong again creationism is not concurrent with evolution it' one or the other let's review genesis shall we :
"In the beginning God[2] created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."[3] God makes the first day and night; the "firmament" separating "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;" dry land and seas and plants and trees which grew fruit with seed; the sun, moon and stars in the firmament give light upon the earth; creates air-breathing sea creatures and birds and on the sixth day, makes the beasts of the earth according to their kinds."

Create :

1. To cause to exist; bring into being. See synonyms at found1.
2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.
3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.
4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

You either believe in genesis or you think evolution brought life on earth .

As for evolution, my thoughts are agreeable with it up until God is left out of the equation.
I believe evolution is a necessary process in the animal kingdom as a survival mechanism.
As for mankind, evolution of the spices evolves mainly on the marriages of the different races which produce smarter and stronger people.

Evolution does not make a distinction between man and other animals it is either valid for all or none (when a better theory comes along) also as discussed above evolution of any kind contradicts genesis.

.I hold the same basic belief of God the Father, Jesus the Son and God's Holy Spirit, but not in the traditional way as witnessed by all Christianity.I hold that God is a loving Father like figure who cares deeply for all His creatures, even the small sparrow looking for food to feed it's self and it's offspring.Given the gift of intelligence to reason, mankind is above the animal kingdom as such for the specie to learn to be in God's image through trial and error.
Freeing mankind up from the penalty of eternal separation due to being in the flesh,

Again belief without bases , in other words blind belief .
We all use rationality and logic everyday whether we should stay up late or sleep? smoke or quit ? take a brown bag or buy lunch ? If you apply the same logic that you do to your everyday life to god (forget the cop outs of his living in a spiritual plane or being beyond your understanding)you'll find that it lacks substance , but you won't you compartmentalize your thoughts logic everywhere but not to god that is just blind faith .

God has allowed us free choice and in so doing, are accountable only to ourselves for whatever decisions we make.
If bad choices are made in life, we suffer the consequences, but never are our souls in jeopardy of eternal annihilation.

Prove that the human soul exists ? One logical or scientific proof that human consensuses exists beyond death .

Now, having said all that, I don't have a problem with evolution, but rather a better understanding how God uses evolutionary process to enhance the species that are.

God says nothing about evolution or natural selection so do not attribute noble logical theories to your irrational beliefs .

 

[talloola]

That is a bold faced lie . There is a logical explanation and it's self evident when you compare ancient religions people have two basic points in all these religions .
1)They Fear Death and wonder about what happens when they die .
2) They Do not understand the workings of the world around them because of this they believe in a deity to give them an illusion of complete understanding .



The classical cop out , you are aware that the stories in the bible are at best improbable so you assert the claim that they are beyond the understanding of a select few .I have a tested IQ of 150 and am at least as well educated as the vast majority of people my age and better read than most people twice my age if i cannot understand it I assure you it's beyond most people . I say this not to toot my own horn but just to illustrate the point that the story of some guy building a boat to escape a flood is not really all that complex .


Errr wrong again your perception of this world clearly leaves logic far behind you and is compltly based on what you believe , set that aside and all your arguments are pointless.


Errr wrong again creationism is not concurrent with evolution it' one or the other let's review genesis shall we :
"In the beginning God[2] created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."[3] God makes the first day and night; the "firmament" separating "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;" dry land and seas and plants and trees which grew fruit with seed; the sun, moon and stars in the firmament give light upon the earth; creates air-breathing sea creatures and birds and on the sixth day, makes the beasts of the earth according to their kinds."

Create :

1. To cause to exist; bring into being. See synonyms at found1.
2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.
3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.
4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

You either believe in genesis or you think evolution brought life on earth .




Evolution does not make a distinction between man and other animals it is either valid for all or none (when a better theory comes along) also as discussed above evolution of any kind contradicts genesis.


Again belief without bases , in other words blind belief .
We all use rationality and logic everyday whether we should stay up late or sleep? smoke or quit ? take a brown bag or buy lunch ? If you apply the same logic that you do to your everyday life to god (forget the cop outs of his living in a spiritual plane or being beyond your understanding)you'll find that it lacks substance , but you won't you compartmentalize your thoughts logic everywhere but not to god that is just blind faith .



Prove that the human soul exists ? One logical or scientific proof that human consensuses exists beyond death .

God says nothing about evolution or natural selection so do not attribute noble logical theories to your irrational beliefs .

Also my thoughts, put into words much better than I ever could, thank you.

 

[look3467]

I am having a problem here and need your help.

I am thinking to myself, how and why do unbelievers fight so hard to disprove that there is no god, when if left alone, wouldn't matter anyways at the end.

My only reasoning is that they must believe that He exists, otherwise, why bother to dispute it.

As for me, I fight hard to introduce God because I believe He exists, and is a lover of all souls, believers as well as unbeliervers.

With an attitude like that, it would seem that unbelievers would be comfortable with it, because what possible threat could that be to an unbeliever; the possibility of believing maybe?

I on the other hand am not threathened the least bit by any belief system in the world, because I feel I understand mainly the purpose of God's creation.

It is all uotlined in the entire written word of the bible and can only be seen as given preve to by faith in God.

No faith in God, the bible is a useless book of words, fabales.

I may not be of a high IQ, but one thing I know, is that in my faith in God, I have found solace, contentment, peace and help in times of need, and that I can not deny.

So, how in the world could I not have faith in God after He has given me all that to experience?

I would be a fool not to, and if I am a fool for believing so, then I am at peace with that.

But as for all others, I have found peace with them as well, for I now consider them all as brothers loved by the same God I worship,therefore, trying not to offend any of them.

If an unbeliever was to speak to a believer, I would be the one to speak to, because I would not hold your unbelief against you, but rather accept you as you are into the fold of God's love.

If God does not condemn you, nor do I.

 

[Minority Observer84]

I am having a problem here and need your help.
I am thinking to myself, how and why do unbelievers fight so hard to disprove that there is no god, when if left alone, wouldn't matter anyways at the end.

Because people use religion to base public morality on and tell me right from wrong .
Because people kill others in the name of who's fictional god is greatest .
Because theists continue to use money to convert simple populations around the world from animistic beliefs to their own form of irrational belief .
Because religion has killed more people than any other idea including nazisim and communism combined , it's time for that to stop.
Because religion is intrinsically racist and divisive .
Because faith in the absolute religious doctrine stalls human intellectual growth .
Because religion looks down on people , teaches that women are less than men and in some cases endorses slavery .
Most of all because religion tells people that their current life that they can see is not as valuable as the after life which they can't . This has lead to everything from martyrdom to neglect for the environment . Millions of people are wasting the only lives they will have worshiping a myth and that makes me sad.

My only reasoning is that they must believe that He exists, otherwise, why bother to dispute it.

Irrationality based on more irrationality ...........

As for me, I fight hard to introduce God because I believe He exists, and is a lover of all souls, believers as well as unbeliervers.
With an attitude like that, it would seem that unbelievers would be comfortable with it, because what possible threat could that be to an unbeliever; the possibility of believing maybe?

You belief is irrational and your fictional friend can feel as he wants about all "souls" i can only judge by the actions of his followers .I'am not comfortable with anyone who blindly believes in a lie and worse yet refuses to logically discuss his beliefs .

I on the other hand am not threathened the least bit by any belief system in the world, because I feel I understand mainly the purpose of God's creation.

Your firmly entrenched in your delusion . Congrats your one of the sheep .

the bible is a useless book of words, fabales.

The only rational thing you've ever said to me .

I may not be of a high IQ, but one thing I know, is that in my faith in God, I have found solace, contentment, peace and help in times of need, and that I can not deny.

Just because it makes you feel all warm and mushy inside doesn't make it true , or applicable to anyone else .

If God does not condemn you, nor do I.

AH Classic theist patronizing , God does not condem me or anyone else because fictional entities cannot offer condemnation .

 

[look3467]

…the bible is a useless book of words, fables>>>look3467
The only rational thing you've ever said to me. >>>Minority Observer84

You know, it’s ok to quote me, but please use the whole intended phrase so that folks reading it may make a judgment on the merits of the intended point.

Here is the quote as written: “No faith in God, the bible is a useless book of words, fabales.”

The intended point was “no faith in God” makes the bible a book of words and fables.

I will not edit a sentence to change someone’s point to that of mine.

Apart from that, you make good arguments.

I can only state the state of faith I have in God with tenacity of belief, and hope to share it at will.
But to require anyone else to do the same is not in my book.

I have just as much right to speak on the opposite side as does the other side, the difference being that my side will accommodate the other side’s beliefs in friendship, patience, tolerance and love.

That my God, as I know about Him loves all who do not believe and or love Him.
If there is no belief in God, then these words are just empty words.
P.S. Please don’t misquote that last sentence, Thanks.

Even though I present God as the creator is not to say that you have to believe it.
I am standing on the side of God in this discussion.

I enjoy all conversations with you and all others.

My IQ is nothing to brag about, but one thing fer sure, I wouldn’t put you down for what you believe.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[talloola]

I am having a problem here and need your help.

I am thinking to myself, how and why do unbelievers fight so hard to disprove that there is no god, when if left alone, wouldn't matter anyways at the end.

My only reasoning is that they must believe that He exists, otherwise, why bother to dispute it.

Well, I suppose if the believers didn't announce 'all over the world' how much they do believe, and
push it into our politics and schools, then there would be no need for those who don't believe in a
god to say anything. Do you think atheists should shut up while the believers tell us about god
every day of our lives. The opposite opinion should be allowed, just like it is in any other subject.
Your last statement is ludicrous, and your english seems a little 'funny' as well. If we were fighting
hard to disprove that there is no god, then we would be trying to prove there 'is' a god, right?

 

[look3467]

Because people use religion to base public morality on and tell me right from wrong .
Because people kill others in the name of who's fictional god is greatest .
Because theists continue to use money to convert simple populations around the world from animistic beliefs to their own form of irrational belief .
125communism combined , it's time for that to stop.
Because religion is intrinsically racist and divisive .
Because faith in the absolute religious doctrine stalls human intellectual growth .
Because religion looks down on people , teaches that women are less than men and in some cases endorses slavery .
Most of all because religion tells people that their current life that they can see is not as valuable as the after life which they can't . This has lead to everything from martyrdom to neglect for the environment . Millions of people are wasting the only lives they will have worshiping a myth and that makes me sad.>>> Minority Observer84

Don’t you know that all that you said works to bring out the good in people? If everything were peachy, what earthly good would we make?

Does not a beautiful red rose come out of a thorny stem?

If there were no belief in something other than this life, the pyramids would have never being built; the hedge stones would never have been erected. There would be no statues of Buddha, crop circles, alien abductions, and even a little man in a red suit with a forked spear.
Nah, my friend, I am not missing out on anything for my life is built on nothing less than Jesus Christ.

Peace>>>AJ