Coups arranged or backed by the U.S.A

[Huck]

Toro, i dont seem able to validate your facts abour half oil selling in euros.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroeuro

perhaps can you assist me?

oh, it also says that the 2 countries that plan to switch to euro are Iran and Venezuela. Suprise!! what a coincidence... :!:

 

[I think not]

We've covered this Huck:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10072

 

[Huck]

Re: RE: Coups arranged or bac

Also, driving interest rates to 1% and running large fiscal deficits is about 1,000,000x more important to the determination of whether or not the dollar will continue to be used as the global reserve currency than referencing oil in euros.

That's what I think. So I would add that I'm not convinced enough of the stability of the Euro to think it will ever replace the Dollar as a benchmark. How many times have they tried to consolidate Europe? Their track record is poor at best. A little inflation isn't going to make or break America; I wouldn't sweat it.

please read what i posted, it can give a hint. As for the euro, it is true that it loses some of its polish, especially that iraq no longer will trade in euros (duh, thanks bush) and iran and venezuela wont be for long.

so, in short, the US's decimination of democracy seems to work and turn out ok... :roll:

 

[Huck]

We've covered this Huck:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10072

Thanks ITN, i will read it as soon as i have the time. Anyways, it was not my goal to be dragged in a flame war on oil. The point was about coup d'états of the USA.

 

[I think not]

We've covered this Huck:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10072

Thanks ITN, i will read it as soon as i have the time. Anyways, it was not my goal to be dragged in a flame war on oil. The point was about coup d'états of the USA.

I realize that, let's get one thing out of the way so it won't haunt us down the road :wink:

 

[Toro]

RE: Coups arranged or bac

The funny thing about this oil in euros thing is that for the decade or so I've been talking to oil analysts, executives, government officials and investors, I never heard about this theory until I was exposed to it on some of the foiler sites.

 

[Toro]

We've covered this Huck:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10072

We did this back in the summer too, sometime before my, <ahem>, sabbatical.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Coups arranged or bac

The funny thing about this oil in euros thing is that for the decade or so I've been talking to oil analysts, executives, government officials and investors, I never heard about this theory until I was exposed to it on some of the foiler sites.

Well make sure you tell those responsible for it, they have a right to know.

 

[Huck]

The flame war on oil has really made us lose the focus on the main topic, which is about the hyporisy of the USA (yes, other powers too) on foreign governments.

If this topic is to die and no more arguments to come, then i hope what i said will be remembered the next time that spreading democracy is invoked as a legit reson for invading iraq, and obviously the upcoming iran (and venezuela if a coup does not succeed, why not). Espcially that the iran war will surely become a hot topic in the months to come on this board.


:arrow:

 

[I think not]

The flame war on oil has everything to do with it, since most will invoke the theory that most dictatorships were installed to control oil or the flow of it. So it stands to reason we address the alleged root cause before going further. One of which is the Euro vs Dollar conspiracy.

 

[Huck]

The flame war on oil has everything to do with it, since most will invoke the theory that most dictatorships were installed to control oil or the flow of it. So it stands to reason we address the alleged root cause before going further. One of which is the Euro vs Dollar conspiracy.

ok, if this is your show stopper, i shall get up to speed on that consipracy you are all talking about as fast as possible. Its too much of an important subject to let it go to waste...


ill be back tomorrow on it.

Meanwhile, toro, you could help me and check for the half the world oil trades in euro fact you gave us. i cant seem to find anythign about it. Anyways, i will see more tommrow on the topic.

 

[Huck]

The flame war on oil has everything to do with it, since most will invoke the theory that most dictatorships were installed to control oil or the flow of it. So it stands to reason we address the alleged root cause before going further. One of which is the Euro vs Dollar conspiracy.

Thinking about it, oil is only part of the problem. Although finding the root reason to do wrong doing in certain countries where oil is a hot issue is important, it certainly does not remove the moral issue about supporting inhuman governments for personal gains.


If we hope to achieve anything out of this discussion, oil is only half of it (which many seem to want to avoid rediscussing). So this leaves us with the ethics problem of US sponsored coups.



does the ends justify the means?

 

[Huck]

For the more curious of you, here is some potentially interresting reading...

http://www.energybulletin.net/8379.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,900867,00.html
http://www.altpr.org/modules.php?op...e=article&sid=355&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

and for the more open of you, who can consider possible alternate point of views:

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=9752
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/akleh.htm


Diversifying our view points makes us stronger..

 

[unclepercy]

The flame war on oil has everything to do with it, since most will invoke the theory that most dictatorships were installed to control oil or the flow of it. So it stands to reason we address the alleged root cause before going further. One of which is the Euro vs Dollar conspiracy.

Thinking about it, oil is only part of the problem. Although finding the root reason to do wrong doing in certain countries where oil is a hot issue is important, it certainly does not remove the moral issue about supporting inhuman governments for personal gains.


If we hope to achieve anything out of this discussion, oil is only half of it (which many seem to want to avoid rediscussing). So this leaves us with the ethics problem of US sponsored coups.



does the ends justify the means?

Hey, Bubba, I hate to tell you this, but you've bitten off more than you can chew with both Toro and ITN on your tail. Good luck :roll:

Uncle

 

[Toro]

Meanwhile, toro, you could help me and check for the half the world oil trades in euro fact you gave us. i cant seem to find anythign about it. Anyways, i will see more tommrow on the topic.

Half the worlds oil trades are not in dollars, which doesn't mean euros.

Can't seem to find anything about watermelons falling to earth when dropped from the Statue of Liberty because of gravity either. How do you know watermelons fall from the Statue of Liberty when they're dropped? I can't find anything about it on the Internet. Mustn't be true then.

 

[Toro]

RE: Coups arranged or bac

The original oil for euros idea came from the Saudi energy minister because the euro was strengthening against the dollar. Now that oil has risen in euros, it doesn't matter to them anymore.

Iran is opening an oil bourse because it makes sense for them to do so. If they need to transact in the futures market, most of the world's volume in in London or the NYMEX. So why would Iran, who had their assets frozen by the US after the Hostage Crisis for 20 years want to risk that again, especially after they were labelled the axis of evil?

 

[Toro]

Toro, i dont seem able to validate your facts abour half oil selling in euros.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroeuro

perhaps can you assist me?

There is a difference between a "trade" and a "transaction"

All trades are done in dollars. Transactions are not, however.

What is the difference?

Let me give you an example. If an Italian oil company is selling to a Swiss gas marketing company, the reference point for the trade will be in dollars, i.e. buying 100,000 barrels @ US$60. However, when the actual transaction takes place, the mechanics of it will be to swap swiss francs for euros, not swiss francs for dollars for euros. The refrence point will be the dollar but then the actual transaction will have nothing to do with dollars. Why? Because there is a cost for transacting currencies. When you transact currencies, you pay a broker and you also pay a spread. That costs money. It is a cost companies want to avoid (and one reason why the EU adopted the euro in the first place). So why would a company want to do it twice if it can be avoided? If a Swiss and an Italian company are transacting, why would they want the added cost of trading in dollars when it is completely unnecessary?

Of course, when companies sell into the futures markets, they are transacting in dollars, but the net effect of it is small. If this same transaction occurred in the futures market, there is a corresponding buy and sell transaction. No actual dollars change hands. However, it does make the US dollar slightly more liquid, so there is a benefit to the US dollar.

Finally, msot commodities are referenced in dollars - oil, gas, nickel, zinc, copper, gold, silver, sugar, cofffee, etc. Its convenient to do so. Its difficult enough when you have different futures contracts on the same product, ie. March wheat, June wheat, August wheat, etc. Trading it in a bunch of other currencies gets more confusing.

I hope that helps.

 

[H2OB1]

Wonderfully stated, Burley! I'm not sure it could be said any more succinctly. I hope the others noticed how clearly you said it! Everything you do will eventually come around to envelope you, so you'd best be served to perform good works. Otherwise...

"No doubt the people who fought against, and were ultimately crushed beneath oppressive regimes in your CIA-sponsored democracies, were worth the sacrifice to maintain stable global economic relationships, and grow an American economy that could support a world-dominating military.

Do try to savour those privileges while you can, because that dragon is turning and has slowly begun to claw away your rights and freedoms, as it shifts its draconian weight upon its own kind."

 

[Toro]

Huck

You have to understand that Bush and Greenspan have down more to undermine the value of the dollar, and thus its status as a reserve currency, then anyone on the planet - Bush because of his deficit spending and Greenspan because his Fed has printed more money than any other Fed for at least 30 years. And one of the things that Bush has done to undermine the value of the dollar has been to ... invade Iraq! Not only does invading Iraq create tremendous ill-will, which undermines political support for the dollar as the world's reserve currency, but the $300 billion or so it has cost increases the US deficit, increases inflation and thus undermines its value. So it makes no sense to invade Iraq to prop up the dollar when doing so undermines the dollar.

The foiler sites you link have got it backwards. Trading in currencies other than dollars will not bring about the end of the dollar as the world's reserve currency; the end of the dollar as the world's reserve currencies will bring about the end of trading in the dollar. Dollars are account for 65-70% of the world's global reserves and number in the trillions. The benefit of trading anything is that it creates liquidity and thus lowers costs, which is beneficial. However, the benefits accrued by trading one commodity in another part of the world is infintesimal to the scale of global reserves.

And those benefits to trading is one of the reasons why Iran wants to set up its own bourse. When I first heard the news, I thought it made a lot of sense from a political and economic standpoint for Iran. I didn't think it would spawn a slew of foiler theories and sites - how naive I am. Iran exports somewhere between 3-4 million barrels of oil a day, the second largest exporter in the world. Oil brings Iran about $150 million each day. Its important to the country. If it is such an important oil exporter, why wouldn't it want to control the trading of its most important commodity?

 

[missile]

Project Censored claims that the real reason for the invasion of iraq was Saddam's attempts to switch to the Euro for oil sales.