Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

[gc]

Re: RE: Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/050_2005-02-04/han050_1250-E.htm

According to the logic of Mr. Ken Epp: The national debt in 1968 was 18 billion, in 1984 it was 198 billion. That is 1100% in 16 years. Taking the 16th root of 11 gives an interest rate of about 16%. That is higher than 10.8% but interest rates were higher in those days http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/mci.html. So saying that Mulroney only added to the debt because of interest payments is like saying that Trudeau only added to the debt because of interest payments. However, neither is excusable and it should be the responsibility of any government to reduce the debt as much as possible.

 

[Jay]

Were not getting anywhere here....are you trying to say you aren't a little girl? :wink:

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/050_2005-02-04/han050_1250-E.htm

According to the logic of Mr. Ken Epp: The national debt in 1968 was 18 billion, in 1984 it was 198 billion. That is 1100% in 16 years. Taking the 16th root of 11 gives an interest rate of about 16%. That is higher than 10.8% but interest rates were higher in those days http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/mci.html. So saying that Mulroney only added to the debt because of interest payments is like saying that Trudeau only added to the debt because of interest payments. However, neither is excusable and it should be the responsibility of any government to reduce the debt as much as possible.

Sadly, the greatest toy given him was our own nation, which he also squandered. When Trudeau became prime minister in 1968, it was a stable country with low taxes and little debt. During his reign it became a very unstable country with backbreaking taxes and horrendous debt. During the Trudeau years, federal debt rose from 25% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to 45%. In two years alone, from 1974-76, federal spending soared 50%.

http://www.westcan.org/westcan/WSP/AuSeOc00WSP.htm

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

Were not getting anywhere here....are you trying to say you aren't a little girl? :wink:

are you?

 

[Jay]

What is especially significant about these years is not only that Trudeau left us with this huge unpaid bill, but that he racked up the debt during a time when the government had access to more tax revenue than any other government to that point. Under the Trudeau Liberals, from 1977 to 1984 alone, they piled up more than $150 billion in government debt and increased spending from $43 billion a year to $109 billion.

It doesn’t take a Chartered Financial Analyst to figure out that moving out of controlled spending of $43 billion a year to $109 billion in seven years does not constitute getting control of things. Add to this fact that they increased borrowing from just over $10 billion a year to $38 billion and one gets an accurate picture of just how disastrous the Trudeau administration was at financial management.

http://www.justiceplus.org/Canada_billions.htm

 

[Jay]

When Trudeau entered office, Ottawa spent 30% of Canada’s total economic output(the same as the USA). When he left, government spending had skyrocketed to almost 53%. With half of Canadians working directly or indirectly for Ottawa, the nation became infected with bureaucratic and union work ethics - state-sponsored laziness.

http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2000/10/trudeau_canadas.php

 

[Jay]

Trudeau's first two governments (1968-72 and 1972-74) did establish several new social programs and significantly increase public spending,

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/oct2000/trud-o10_prn.shtml

 

[gc]

RE: Conservative voters h

I don't see your point, Jay. I've acknowledged that Trudeau is responsible for racking up the debt. The point that a lot of people in this forum are trying to make is that Mulroney was just as bad. That being said, I don't think Paul Martin (or future liberal leader) can be blamed for Trudeau's mistakes just as Stephen Harper can't be blamed for Mulroney's mistakes. Can we at least agree on that?

 

[Jay]

So saying that Mulroney only added to the debt because of interest payments is like saying that Trudeau only added to the debt because of interest payments.

Isn't true from my perspective.

 

[gc]

Re: RE: Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

So saying that Mulroney only added to the debt because of interest payments is like saying that Trudeau only added to the debt because of interest payments.

Isn't true from my perspective.

Numbers don't lie.

 

[BitWhys]

Accumulated Debt (% GDP)

Trudeau years (68 to 83*) in at 26.9 out at 38.2 = +11.3% in 15 years in office*
Mulroney (84 to 93) in at 43.2** out at 64.1 = +20.9% over 9 years in office

* with Clark not passing a budget
** with Turner not passing a budget

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Conservative voters h

Those are strange and revealing numbers BitWhys it looks like the Mulrooney gang were worse than the Liberals, but if you listen to the poorly informed barely literate neo-cons on this forum you'd think differently. They lie to us all the time,
always with thier misinformation and twisted big-brother propaganda, christ there's nothing worse than an infestation of facsists posing as conservatives. There is no federal conservative party in Canada, there is a fascist party that calls itself conservative, a name it bought along with P Mackay.

 

[Toro]

Trudeau years (68 to 83*) in at 26.9 out at 38.2 = +11.3% in 15 years in office*
Mulroney (84 to 93) in at 43.2** out at 64.1 = +20.9% over 9 years in office

This is disingenuous. Trudeau began running deficits in 1973 or 1974. The last balanced budget the Liberals ran was with Turner as finance minister.

But why are you resorting to math? I thought all the budget information was on the Department of Finance web page.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Conservative voters have amnesia!!!

you mean Mulroney DIDN'T run 4 fiscal years of operating deficits?

No, that's not what's being argued.

Mulroney ran an operating surplus during certain fiscal years, not over his entire term.

But, according to your logic, in terms of responsibility

fireman > arsonist

when the fireman's only tool is a water pistol.

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Conservative voters h

What the hell is a operating surplus/deficit?

 

[BitWhys]

I thought all the budget information was on the Department of Finance web page.

It is.

You're supposed to be the expert and don't even have the basic figures?

THAT'S disingenous.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Conservative voters h

What the hell is a operating surplus/deficit?

here you go

By definition operating deficits are a negative net difference between budgetary revenues and operating expenses BEFORE public debt charges are applied.

kinda tough picking out one line from all the nonsense. :lol:

 

[JonB2004]

RE: Conservative voters h

OK. Thanks.

 

[Toro]

I thought all the budget information was on the Department of Finance web page.

It is.

You're supposed to be the expert and don't even have the basic figures?

THAT'S disingenous.

So link it.

 

[BitWhys]

RE: Conservative voters h

you know what the deal is.