Consequences of corrupting the mosque

[Cliffy]

I bet a lot of gods have said that. I say throw them all into an arena and let the best god win (best meaning one that actually cares for Earth's inhabitants and doesn't massacre people and things by the millions).

It seems to evade believers, that if god created man in its own image and that this god can freely kill humans by the millions, then killing for humans would not be a sin and yet they say it is one of THE commandments that man should refrain from such activities. They fail to see the dichotomy of such silliness.

I agree, if there is a god who loves us there would be none of this reward and punishment crap, no bowing down and kissing of divine butt and certainly none of this very human jealousy, anger and vengeance. That is why I believe Mark Twain's remark that "man created god in his own image." He was, of course, referring to the war god of the bible, quran and torah.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

oi oi oi, man's inhumanity to man - why can't people just leave each other alone? Why the hate in the name of god? God certainly wouldn't approve. Killing others in the name of god is just being a bully - my god is better than your god - In the end, the murderers will all go to hell. There is and can be no honor in killing.

JMO

Dixie, why do you think people start religions? Is that to get along, to love everybody, charity and compassion for all? Don’t you believe it. The main purpose of religion is to exclude others, to dominate others, to make the believers feel superior to non believers.

Killing the infidels is but the next logical step in the process. If my God is better that your God, it follows that I am better than you ,so I am qualified to judge whether you live or die. Christianity used to follow this philosophy, but it doesn’t’ any more. Islam however, still follows this philosophy. That is why there is so much killing in the name of Islam, so much oppression of women in Islam, even today.

Islam is all about ego trip. So is Christianity to some extent. To answer your question, why can’t people leave each other alone, that is not the job of religion. Job of many religions (Christianity, Islam etc.) is world evangelization. Failing that, they want a Theocracy, like they have in Saudi Arabia or Iran (or they used to have in the dark ages in Europe).

 

[Downhome_Woman]

Consequences of corrupting the mosque​

The transgression on the Aqsa mosque at Jerusalem where God's name is mentioned with praise and glorification; even though in another language: the Arabic. ​

How dare Jews and Zionists try to demolish it or transgress on it? If they claim love God and obey His commandments, then how do they transgress on His house?​

Is God reviled in the Aqsa mosque, or is He glorified ? So what is their plea in justifying the transgression on it?​

S

(And who can be more unjust than he who forbids God's places of worship [lit. the mosques of God] lest His name should be mentioned therein, and strives to ruin them? [It means: none is more wrong-doer than such one]​

These should never be allowed to enter them except with fear. ​

Theirs in [the life of] the World is ignominy, and theirs in the afterlife is a great torment.)​

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran aya 2: 114​

وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّن مَّنَعَ مَسَاجِدَ اللّهِ أَن يُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ وَسَعَى فِي خَرَابِهَا أُوْلَئِكَ مَا كَانَ لَهُمْ أَن يَدْخُلُوهَا إِلاَّ خَآئِفِينَ لهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا خِزْيٌ وَلَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ​

Israelites have built a high wall surrounding Jerusalem, then they forbade a large number of Muslims visiting their holy mosque, then they now plot to ruin it to build their temple in stead of it; in addition to building their houses in the city of Jerusalem in spite of the condemnation of this act.

Transgression on the Aqsa mosque and its golden Dome of the Rock, will hasten the inevitable end of Israel according to the prophecy in the Quran 17: 3-8​

The Disagreement of the
<http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/english3.htm#A_Warning_to_Zionists_of_Perishing_>​

So let me get this right. It's ok for Muslims to desecrate the temples and Churches of Christians and Jews, but they can't do it to you? Now last I checked, the Israeli government wasn't about to get rid of your precious Al-Aqksa Mosque - which I might add, was built ON TOP of the HOLIEST place for Jews. Not the 2nd or 3rd, but the HOLIEST. didn't bother Muslims much, did it, to build their THIRD holiest site.
And then there's the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople (oh - right - It's Istanbul, not Constantinople). That was one of Eastern Christianity's greatest Churches. When it was secularized in the 1930s did the Turkish government give it back to the people it stole it from? Of course not! They made it into a museum! The holiest place in the Eastern Orthodox Church! How many other places of worship has Islam appropriated from the other 'People if the Book'? apparently we worship the same God or Allah - whatever name you want to call the diety, why is it necessary for YOUR faith to steal the churches and temples of people who you say worship the same God?
and then you whine when you think that they aren't respecting 'your' temple. Can you blame them? you reap what you sow, Einassir, you reap what you sow.

 

[damngrumpy]

All this mumbo jumbo and phrases from ancient texts. There are millions of people who don't care about Gods house or anyone else's for that matter. People don't get
it, they had a war. Second the Arabs attacked the Jews and worse they lost. When
that happens in a hostile part of the world its, to the winner goes the spoils.
If anyone is looking for understanding there isn't any. If you are looking for the respect of the others religion, there isn't any. If someone is looking for mercy there
is none to be found. You can quote all the passages you want, it won't change the
fact that the deal is done. Besides if God thought that place was worth anything he
would have seen to it that the Jews lost. I get a little tired of Jews, Muslims and
Christians living in the past according to ancient texts while the world moves on.
These people are content to live their sheltered little lives according to some future
judgement day, instead of living for today. That was not meant to be insulting or
mean spirited. God according to religion creates all things, therefore, he created a
great future, that you refuse to recognize. If he created these things move on and
forget your hatreds and your everything is a sin life.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

We humans are spiritual beings, but when we see the mockery the church has made of religion, it is sad. Like anything has faced evolution, the church is the most hypocritical place of spiritual practice preaches the word of god with a monetary interest,. Religion what a Great commodity ……..

Hypocrisy is born through religion, all faiths go to church pray for an hour and go out in the world to screw their fellow man, if that is not hypocrisy, what a jock …. The righteous outside often are not so righteous inside, and this is were hypocrisy starts. In the church playing the righteous role and outside screw your fellow man.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

We humans are spiritual beings, but when we see the mockery the church has made of religion, it is sad. Like anything has faced evolution, the church is the most hypocritical place of spiritual practice preaches the word of god with a monetary interest,. Religion what a Great commodity ……..

Hypocrisy is born through religion, all faiths go to church pray for an hour and go out in the world to screw their fellow man, if that is not hypocrisy, what a jock …. The righteous outside often are not so righteous inside, and this is were hypocrisy starts. In the church playing the righteous role and outside screw your fellow man.

Hypocrisy isn't 'born of religion' - it just is.
I've known hypocritical religious people, I've met hypocritical atheists and agnostics.
I've also met people who belonged to all above mentioned groups who were the salt of the earth and would walk that proverbial extra mile for their fellow human - not because they were afraid of death, doom and destruction if they didn't, or because they felt that they 'should', but because they knew in their gut that it was the 'right' thing to do.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

All this mumbo jumbo and phrases from ancient texts. There are millions of people who don't care about Gods house or anyone else's for that matter. People don't get
it, they had a war. Second the Arabs attacked the Jews and worse they lost. When
that happens in a hostile part of the world its, to the winner goes the spoils.
If anyone is looking for understanding there isn't any. If you are looking for the respect of the others religion, there isn't any. If someone is looking for mercy there
is none to be found. You can quote all the passages you want, it won't change the
fact that the deal is done. Besides if God thought that place was worth anything he
would have seen to it that the Jews lost. I get a little tired of Jews, Muslims and
Christians living in the past according to ancient texts while the world moves on.
These people are content to live their sheltered little lives according to some future
judgement day, instead of living for today. That was not meant to be insulting or
mean spirited. God according to religion creates all things, therefore, he created a
great future, that you refuse to recognize. If he created these things move on and
forget your hatreds and your everything is a sin life.

If you "get a little tired of Jews, Muslims and
Christians living in the past according to ancient texts while the world moves on" well then get prepared to get a little more tired. It's not just religion - it's everything. People hold onto their grief and their hate because they all tell stories and they tell them to their kids and their grandkids and great grandkids. It's what humanity does. They pas the stories of their lives onto their kids and their kids' kids. It's life and religion is just a small part of it.
Don't blame it on religion, blame it on what we do every day as people - we share our past with others. Maybe your people didn't, but most of the world? They're just like my forefathers. At night after the work was done people sat around fires and told stories of life - their life, and the life stories that were passed down from their parents and grandparents and back further. Each story teller had a connection with the previous one - that's what makes the telling alive.
You want to boil it down to something as mundane as religion? Forget it - it goes way deeper and that's why it's so difficult.
And by the way, if you refuse to understand WHY someone is angry with you, you'll NEVER resolve anything. No one ever solved a problem by telling the other person to 'get over it'.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Hypocrisy isn't 'born of religion' - it just is.
I've known hypocritical religious people, I've met hypocritical atheists and agnostics.
I've also met people who belonged to all above mentioned groups who were the salt of the earth and would walk that proverbial extra mile for their fellow human - not because they were afraid of death, doom and destruction if they didn't, or because they felt that they 'should', but because they knew in their gut that it was the 'right' thing to do.

All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine.

Socrates

 

[Downhome_Woman]

They are your brothers.

Actually, as People of the Book, they are supposed to be your brothers. Well - at least they are just supposed to be taxed and oppressed rather than just slaughtered willy nilly.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine.

Socrates

Okj - sounds good, but tell me, what quantifies 'righteous'? whose definition 'reigns supreme'?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Okj - sounds good, but tell me, what quantifies 'righteous'? whose definition 'reigns supreme'?

People like the ones below,


"but because they knew in their gut that it was the 'right' thing to do".

 

[Goober]

The infidel is never my friend.

The disbeliever is a big loser; at last he will lose everything and in the afterlife he will be disperate of God's mercy and grace.

The disbeliever is a liar; he first of all lies to himself; and when he knows the wrong and does it, then he in fact is a devil.

Quoting Goober
So every suicide bomber is led to their suicide by Jews and Imperialists - now I want you to shake your head - Tell me what you hear.

The problem that many but not all Muslims in western countries have and a substantial number in the Mid East is they believe the crap that you are spouting

All the Arabs problems are laid at the feet of the Jews and Imperialism - Guess your leaders that have you trained like puppets would be completely innocent - perhaps you should familiarize yourself with hot the House of Saud came into being - They made a deal with the Wahabi Imans - We rule and you instruct - the State religion will be Wahabi beliefs -

i like to say "the Good Lord put stupid people on this earth to test us" and you are more than qualified.

You must hate this country as it has a separation of Church and State - Why did you come here?


Care to answer the questions I asked -

I know that according to you I am an Infidel.

 

[AnnaG]

Hypocrisy isn't 'born of religion' - it just is.
I've known hypocritical religious people, I've met hypocritical atheists and agnostics.
I've also met people who belonged to all above mentioned groups who were the salt of the earth and would walk that proverbial extra mile for their fellow human - not because they were afraid of death, doom and destruction if they didn't, or because they felt that they 'should', but because they knew in their gut that it was the 'right' thing to do.

Yup. Hypocrisy is born when people are born.

 

[eanassir]

Quoting Goober
So every suicide bomber is led to their suicide by Jews and Imperialists - now I want you to shake your head - Tell me what you hear.

The problem that many but not all Muslims in western countries have and a substantial number in the Mid East is they believe the crap that you are spouting

All the Arabs problems are laid at the feet of the Jews and Imperialism - Guess your leaders that have you trained like puppets would be completely innocent - perhaps you should familiarize yourself with hot the House of Saud came into being - They made a deal with the Wahabi Imans - We rule and you instruct - the State religion will be Wahabi beliefs -

i like to say "the Good Lord put stupid people on this earth to test us" and you are more than qualified.

You must hate this country as it has a separation of Church and State - Why did you come here?


Care to answer the questions I asked -

I know that according to you I am an Infidel.

You misunderstood my words in a previous reply.

I do not belong to any sect of these you mentioned; I only believe in God alone and the Quran, and reject all the enthusiasm about prophets, imams and shaikhs; so in this respect I refer to the first believers together with the prophet.

However, anyone that allies with God alone and devotes himself to Him; such person will be victorious and will defeat his enemies; and this is evident and sure.

 

[Goober]

You misunderstood my words in a previous reply.

I do not belong to any sect of these you mentioned; I only believe in God alone and the Quran, and reject all the enthusiasm about prophets, imams and shaikhs; so in this respect I refer to the first believers together with the prophet.

However, anyone that allies with God alone and devotes himself to Him; such person will be victorious and will defeat his enemies; and this is evident and sure.

1 - Does that apply to Jews and Christians
2 - Do not belong to a sect - Fine - What is your opinion on Suicide Bombers - Taking ones life is against the Quran

3- Taking the lives of innocents is also against the Quran.

4 - Am I an infidel as I believe in God and Jesus?

 

[Goober]

Yup. Hypocrisy is born when people are born.

Wrong - Hypocrisy like hate, racsim and other behaviours is learned - Guess where most children learn it first.

 

[eanassir]

1 - Does that apply to Jews and Christians

What do you mean exactly?

2 - Do not belong to a sect - Fine - What is your opinion on Suicide Bombers - Taking ones life is against the Quran

I am not a judge. And why do you concentrate here; it is not my opinion that will save you on Judgment Day, but it is your belief in the Quran and the Islam that will save you or else you will lose in your next afterlife.

3- Taking the lives of innocents is also against the Quran.
Of course.

4 - Am I an infidel as I believe in God and Jesus?

If you believe in God as One God without associate or patron and that Jesus is His servant and apostle and that Mohammed is also His servant and apostle and similarly all the other prophets and apostles, and you believe in all His revealed books including the Quran, and in addition you believe in the next afterlife and the Final Judgment and Requital --> then you are a believer.

But if you disbelieve in any of the above just mentioned statements then you are an infidel; and God's enemy, certainly you are.


Quran Interpretation

 

[damngrumpy]

The Muslims don't care about you unless you convert to their special view of the
world. Mainstream Muslims do not believe in suicide bombers at all, that I do know.
In the west we have to stop bending the rules to allow these groups to do their own
thing and bring in their own form of justice. I think its time to crack down on religion
period, most of them are accountable to no one, they don't have to prove their
miracles are real. If real they should have to prove it, like any other product sold in
the marketplace.

 

[Cliffy]

The greatest miracle of Islam is how god can find 73 virgins... and for every suicide bomber! He certainly doesn't find them in Canada or the US. And who in their right mind would think that is a prize? Oh, I forgot, they aren't in their right mind.:-(

 

[eanassir]

The Muslims don't care about you unless you convert to their special view of the
world. Mainstream Muslims do not believe in suicide bombers at all, that I do know.
In the west we have to stop bending the rules to allow these groups to do their own
thing and bring in their own form of justice. I think its time to crack down on religion
period, most of them are accountable to no one, they don't have to prove their
miracles are real. If real they should have to prove it, like any other product sold in
the marketplace.

Are you the same grumpy of before who used, in this forum, to revile God and all the prophets and apostles: (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and others) ?