"Churchianity"

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
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No, think on it, pray, ask Jesus for guidance and clarification. THAT is who you should be asking. Asking me is not much different than reading a book written by men long dead. Ask the living Christ.

When your Father tells you something, if you don't understand, do you ask your brother for clarification or do you go directly to your Father? After all, it was his words, not your brothers.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
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I don't think you, and defiantly not Motar, understand what Christ was saying and teaching with this. It is similar to the footsteps in the sand. You both need to think on this more. Cliffs is closer to the truth than you both are.

Gerry, I find it perplexing that you don't recognize the self-justification/coarseness/condescension in your status and rhetorical statements "I'm not rude..." and "Who lit the fuse..." Would you make such statements in the presence of Christ? I would expect not since you claim Christ as your justification. Would you speak this way to the Pope? I would expect not since you refer to him as "His Holiness". Your relationship with Christ should release the Spirit of Christ in your life, making you aware of such offense and motivating/empowering you to disown it. Please explain to me how it is that you claim Christ yet fail to recognize/correct such un-Christ-like conduct.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
0
16
No, think on it, pray, ask Jesus for guidance and clarification. THAT is who you should be asking. Asking me is not much different than reading a book written by men long dead. Ask the living Christ.

When your Father tells you something, if you don't understand, do you ask your brother for clarification or do you go directly to your Father? After all, it was his words, not your brothers.
Gerry,
Your tone suggests you may want to put a fork in my forehead.

There are layers of teaching in the passage, but I shall keep it simple. Jesus (our Lord and Master) is a humble servant that loves us dearly.

Phillippians 2...
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Gerry,
Your tone suggests you may want to put a fork in my forehead.

There are layers of teaching in the passage, but I shall keep it simple. Jesus (our Lord and Master) is a humble servant that loves us dearly.

Phillippians 2...
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—

even death on a cross!

Everyone of us endures death on a cross of matter.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Beavs, Please do explain this death on a cross of matter.

My avatar is the ankh=The ankh-cross, symbol of life when spirit and matter are tied together, the ankham-flower of immortality,

the soul entering or crossed with the matter of flesh, the vertical bar is spirit male positive, the horizontal is female matter negative the round part is the flower of immortality, so while we live on earth/hades/Amenta/Egypt-the flesh pit our souls are experiencing death in matter as opposed to life as spirit in the above, here on earth we are in the below, flesh is the cross we bear through Egypt/earth in the shadow of death, this is from the souls perspective which is the reasoning part of the human---something like that


This city of the body, where the sun of soul sank to its death on the cross of matter, to rearise in a new birth, was called the city of the sun, or in Greek, Heliopolis, but in the Egyptian, ANU. The name was given to an actual Egyptian city, where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Osiris or Horus were enacted each year; but the name bore a theological significance before it was given to a geographical town. The name is obviously made up of NU, the name for the mother heaven, or empty space, or abyss of nothingness, and Alpha privative, meaning, as in thousands of words, "not." A-NU would then mean
10​
"not-nothingness," or a world of concrete actuality, the world of physical substantial manifestation. Precisely such a world it is in which units of virginal consciousness go to their death and rise again. A-NU is then the physical body of man on earth. The soul descends out of the waters of the abyss of the NUN, or space in its undifferentiated unity, which is the sign and name of all things negative. The NUN is indeed our "none." Life in the completeness of its unity is negative. To become positively manifest it must differentiate itself into duality, establish positive-negative tension, and later split up into untold multiplicity. This brings out the significance of the Biblical word "multiply." Life can not manifest itself in concrete forms until it multiplies itself endlessly. Unit life of deity must break itself up into infinite fragments in order to fill empty space with a multitude of worlds and beings of different natures. The primal Sea or Mother must engender a multitudinous progeny, to spawn the limitless shoals of organic fish-worlds. This is the meaning of the promise given to Abraham, that his seed should multiply till it filled the earth with offspring countless as the sands of the seashore. And if life was symboled by bread, as the first birth, and by fish, as the second, then we might expect to find in old religious typology the allegory of a Christ figure multiplying loaves and fishes! Are we surprised to find that the Gospel Jesus does this very thing, multiplying the fish loaves and two small fishes to feed a multitude!http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
cj44

I close friend of mine got tangled up in Herbert's cult. Legalism abounded. His followers were kept in spiritual bondage.



Armstrong was very charismatic and fooled a great many people. He was challenged to debates by a number of people (believe it or not, I was one of them) but he declined them all. One of the biggest issues was regarding the tithes he insisted upon. Once his critics proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that tithes were no longer mandated by the New Testament (this because the Order of Melchisedek was abolished) he had no choice but to openly admit he was wrong. When he did so the tithing stopped and his cult lost huge amounts of revenues. That is when the money disputes arose between him, his son, and other leaders of the cult.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
0
16
Armstrong was very charismatic and fooled a great many people. He was challenged to debates by a number of people (believe it or not, I was one of them) but he declined them all. One of the biggest issues was regarding the tithes he insisted upon. Once his critics proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that tithes were no longer mandated by the New Testament (this because the Order of Melchisedek was abolished) he had no choice but to openly admit he was wrong. When he did so the tithing stopped and his cult lost huge amounts of revenues. That is when the money disputes arose between him, his son, and other leaders of the cult.
Gopher, My friend's mother sold her house and gave all the money from the sale to Armstrong's church. Their tithing doctrine was all out of bounds - more than the 10%. If I recall, they convinced the mother that no less than 30% was in order! My friend at the time - we were teenagers. She had to go to Armstrong's college - she willingly went because she was also quite decieved. She was only "allowed" to marry another armstrong follower. Her marriage and life turned into a disaster beyond words. She still was part of a remnant following until about 5 years ago. This group would meet at the home of one of the members. They all still followed most of armstrong's original doctrine. Sadly, she is nearly an atheist now.

Too bad Armstrong would not debate you. I can understand why he would decline debate invitations. His doctrine was astoundingly in error.

I believe he has, several times but you don't read his stuff so you wouldn't have noticed or, if you did, you prejudices prevented you from understanding it.
Cliffy, Perhaps you are the one that would like to put a fork in my forehead. Might the Cliffy be a little cranky?
I do read Beavs posts. I like details and in depth explanations.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
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Nakusp, BC
Cliffy, Perhaps you are the one that would like to put a fork in my forehead. Might the Cliffy be a little cranky?
I do read Beavs posts. I like details and in depth explanations.
No. No fork. I'm not a fork you kinda guy. I just found your question rather condescending after he explained it several times.

The cross is an ancient symbol and it is used in the metaphor of Jesus death to mean exactly what the Beav said it did. Jesus death on the cross was a symbolic death not an actual one. He lived to be at least 80 years old. Your doctrines are no more accurate than Armstrong's. The difference is that he was into fleecing his flock.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
0
16
No. No fork. I'm not a fork you kinda guy. I just found your question rather condescending after he explained it several times.

The cross is an ancient symbol and it is used in the metaphor of Jesus death to mean exactly what the Beav said it did. Jesus death on the cross was a symbolic death not an actual one. He lived to be at least 80 years old. Your doctrines are no more accurate than Armstrong's. The difference is that he was into fleecing his flock.
Cliffy, You are not your usual self.

I find it comical that you cling to your ancient texts while scolding me for clinging to my ancient text. :)
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
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Nakusp, BC
Cliffy, You are not your usual self.

I find it comical that you cling to your ancient texts while scolding me for clinging to my ancient text. :)
I don't cling to any texts, modern or ancient. The symbolism of the cross predates Christianity by thousands of years. That is just historical fact. Check out the works of Joseph Campbell, the world's utmost authority on mythology. The Christ myth follows the "Heroes Journey" to a tee just like all Sun (Son) god myths. The Hebrews who wrote the story were not very imaginative.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
I don't cling to any texts, modern or ancient. The symbolism of the cross predates Christianity by thousands of years. That is just historical fact. Check out the works of Joseph Campbell, the world's utmost authority on mythology. The Christ myth follows the "Heroes Journey" to a tee just like all Sun (Son) god myths. The Hebrews who wrote the story were not very imaginative.


Like Horus? Like that?

No cred
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
0
16
I don't cling to any texts, modern or ancient. The symbolism of the cross predates Christianity by thousands of years. That is just historical fact. Check out the works of Joseph Campbell, the world's utmost authority on mythology. The Christ myth follows the "Heroes Journey" to a tee just like all Sun (Son) god myths. The Hebrews who wrote the story were not very imaginative.
Cliffy....SO WHAT????????? Cross symbolism predating Christ. Ok. And now what? Have you turned all of Christianity on its head? Forgive me Cliffy. You find Paul to be a fraud, yet you are rather impressed with Campbell? Tell me, why should I throw Paul under the bus and embrace Campbell?

Eat hot death, vile punster!
T-Bones, I rather like this retort. Well Done. :)