Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

[I think not]

nah, the rush is really about dis: When your government tries to undermine and smear a government that was elected by democracy, well we just see what a fecking bunch of hypocrites you are, and of course there is dat record of your governments nasty dirty tricks in south america. Oh brother :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: we we go again about dat lil island, and dat big old US of A fraidy cats of castro.

Yeah Peapod, go ahead and blow it off. The questions are valid and you know it, stop hiding behind hypocrisy that suits your political views. An extremist and a human rights violator is precisely that, whether he's called Bush, Chavez, Castro or your benevolent Martin.

There are no right or left morals and ethics. They are simply morals and ethics, the faster the extreme left and right realize this, the faster people will be better off.

Condemning Bush and hailing Chavez as a hero when he blocks legislation to help stop violations in human rights, security, genocide and poverty, doesn't make him a hero, it makes him the scum of the earth like Bush, get it?

 

[peapod]

get it? got it? my you and your lil huddle are...ah well never mind You still have not answered my question to my satisfaction, and I am not talking about the stones song. What gives you the right to undermine and smear a government that was elected by democracy. You can call him all the names you want, just as we call your lil chimp all the names we want...but than your government goes beyond that don't they??? Its one thing bub to call someone names and speak out against them, and educate others...quite another to do the type of things your government has done in south america.

 

[GL Schmitt]

Don't take the moral high ground GL. Supporting Bush or supporting Chavez, Castro etc... is the same song with a different tune. Quit playing it, nobody is paying attention to extremism anymore.

When you call someone an extremist, you had better save it for a post where you have not just equated Bush and Chavez.

Where is the war Chavez declared? (Sorry, make that illegal war.)

Where are the cities Chavez has bombed?

Where are the women and children Chavez killed with incendiary and cluster bombs?

Where are his poor citizens which Chavez has either ignored, or made poorer?



The main reason that the Neocons hate Chavez, is because he was elected on his doctrine of Bolivarianism.

- Venezuelan economic and political sovereignty

- Participatory democracy

- Economic self-sufficiency in food and consumer durables

- Equitable distribution of Venezuela's oil revenues

- Eliminate corruption



Bolivarianism and American Imperialism just aren’t a good fit together.

To make matter worse, Chavez is delivering on his promise.

While America is still waiting to see anything companionate in Bush’s conservatism.

Heck, many Republicans can’t even find the conservatism.

 

[I think not]

get it? got it? my you and your lil huddle are...ah well never mind You still have not answered my question to my satisfaction, and I am not talking about the stones song. What gives you the right to undermine and smear a government that was elected by democracy. You can call him all the names you want, just as we call your lil chimp all the names we want...but than your government goes beyond that don't they??? Its one thing bub to call someone names and speak out against them, and educate others...quite another to do the type of things your government has done in south america.

I answered your question already, and I certainly don't think anything I will ever say will satisfy you, you need years of deprogramming as do the neo-cons, and I have no clue which huddle you are referring to, I speak my own mind, you just don't like what I have to say.

Do yourself a favor Peapod, jump ship and be lucid in your perceptions. Chavez is a violator and actively prevents legislation (on an international scale I might add) to protect peoples rights, if you want to applaud this man, go right ahead. That's your problem. But don't sit there from your high horse pointing fingers at the rest of us that acknowledge what Chavez and Bush are. There is such a thing as being objective and subjective, I always try my best to be the former, God knows it doesn't always work that way, but I try, you don't even make an effort.

All your reactions are knee jerk towards Bush. Puh-leaze :roll:

 

[I think not]

Don't take the moral high ground GL. Supporting Bush or supporting Chavez, Castro etc... is the same song with a different tune. Quit playing it, nobody is paying attention to extremism anymore.

When you call someone an extremist, you had better save it for a post where you have not just equated Bush and Chavez.

Where is the war Chavez declared? (Sorry, make that illegal war.)

Where are the cities Chavez has bombed?

Where are the women and children Chavez killed with incendiary and cluster bombs?

Where are his poor citizens which Chavez has either ignored, or made poorer?



The main reason that the Neocons hate Chavez, is because he was elected on his doctrine of Bolivarianism.

- Venezuelan economic and political sovereignty

- Participatory democracy

- Economic self-sufficiency in food and consumer durables

- Equitable distribution of Venezuela's oil revenues

- Eliminate corruption



Bolivarianism and American Imperialism just aren’t a good fit together.

To make matter worse, Chavez is delivering on his promise.

While America is still waiting to see anything companionate in Bush’s conservatism.

Heck, many Republicans can’t even find the conservatism.

That's good GL, now do Brer Rabbit.

Tell me at which point the comparison stops and violations are acceptable to you as violations? You are willing to condone Human Rights violations of one leader for another. Great ethics you have there. Or are you just appeasing Chavez because he's a leftist and leftists don't do those sort of things :roll:

 

[Jay]

Interesting that you have to answer that for think Jay, so you say its alright than to undermine a government that has been elected by democratic vote...because "When it threatens American interests and spheres of influence and stability"

Now, I want to you list, and show your proof that chevez has done this. I will work on my list of the american "dirty" tricks in latin america. Run along now and have your huddle and come up with that list.

Oh Pea, I'm not answering for him. You were demanding answers to questions using exclamation marks, I was just concerned for his safety and thought someone better say something....


Chavez's rhetoric alone speaks volumes about his feelings toward the US. He's sitting on that oil the US is accustom too. He is picking a fight with Mexico even....he is making wild accusations about the US....There is nothing "stable" going on with Chavez in the region; a region that is considering a trade zone at the moment.

The US needs stability in the region, I don't think they are going about haphazardly causing chaos in the region with a lot of oil at stake and the framework of a large regional trade deal in the works. But I think Chavez wants this.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

No rush.....and no gush. Just the recognition for people who have TRUE GRIT. G.Galloway , Murtha fall into the same category.

You mean the Galloway that accused Canadians of being complicit in the Iraq war at a Muslim conference? Is that the Galloway you're talking about that has true grit OB?

 

[no1important]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

.he is making wild accusations about the US

No he is just telling it how it is and the "W" lovers refuse to open their eyes and see the truth.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

No rush.....and no gush. Just the recognition for people who have TRUE GRIT. G.Galloway , Murtha fall into the same category.

You mean the Galloway that accused Canadians of being complicit in the Iraq war at a Muslim conference? Is that the Galloway you're talking about that has true grit OB?

You bet your patoot. the one and only. He calls it as he sees it......and so far he has "seen" it pretty much spot on. If he perceives complicity .......then it is definately worth looking at. One has to keep a receptive mind to all comments ......as criticism is also important feedback. Maybe that is the problem with so many americans.... : they cannot handle criticism , get bent out of shape as if the fecking world is going to end if they don't get their way....or if someone 'dares" to point out some truths to them.......objective truths that are usually best seen outside the immediate situation. As someone said on a docu last evening........americans live in a bubble......with no genuine awareness of the world outside them. So when people point out their follies , they cannot handle it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You mean the Galloway that accused Canadians of being complicit in the Iraq war at a Muslim conference? Is that the Galloway you're talking about that has true grit OB?

That's the guy, ITN. See, we don't buy into that my country right or wrong jingoistic crap you are so found of down south.

He's sitting on that oil the US is accustom too.

He's not sitting on anything, he sells oil to the US.

He is picking a fight with Mexico even....he is making wild accusations about the US.

No, he's picking a fight with a Mexican government that is unpopular with its own people because it represents only the wealthy and the foreign corporations.

There is nothing "stable" going on with Chavez in the region; a region that is considering a trade zone at the moment.

There is a lot going on in South America right now, including the election of six left-leaning governments that are more than happy to at least nominally support Chavez. It has been Brazil that haas stood up to US on Chavez's behalf several times because they are the largest power in the area. Their provisional...and it's very provisional...support of the FTAA is heavily influenced by the WTO and World Bank. If it wasn't for that hanging over their heads, it is doubtful that there would be much support for anything Bush does.

As for the alleged human rights violations, not only are they far fewer than those the US has been cited for, but they are far less frequent than they were under previous regimes and becoming less frequent all of the time. They are also being carried out not just by Chavez, but by his political opposition and you actually read the reports you would understand that. When you Google something you should read more than just the headlines, ITN and Jay.

 

[I think not]

Frick

You bet your patoot. the one and only. He calls it as he sees it......and so far he has "seen" it pretty much spot on. If he perceives complicity .......then it is definately worth looking at. One has to keep a receptive mind to all comments ......as criticism is also important feedback. Maybe that is the problem with so many americans.... : they cannot handle criticism , get bent out of shape as if the fecking world is going to end if they don't get their way....or if someone 'dares" to point out some truths to them.......objective truths that are usually best seen outside the immediate situation. As someone said on a docu last evening........americans live in a bubble......with no genuine awareness of the world outside them. So when people point out their follies , they cannot handle it.

And Frack

You mean the Galloway that accused Canadians of being complicit in the Iraq war at a Muslim conference? Is that the Galloway you're talking about that has true grit OB?

That's the guy, ITN. See, we don't buy into that my country right or wrong jingoistic crap you are so found of down south.

Should let #juan know:

It is very unCanadian to be insulted by the newsmaker, right Rev? That is what you calimed there, isn't it?

 

[GL Schmitt]

That's good GL, now do Brer Rabbit.

Tell me at which point the comparison stops and violations are acceptable to you as violations? You are willing to condone Human Rights violations of one leader for another. Great ethics you have there. Or are you just appeasing Chavez because he's a leftist and leftists don't do those sort of things :roll:

If you would offer a contemporary report of Human Rights violations which did not involve claims generated by the White House, one of its vassal departments, or Pat Robertson, nor were they your usual corruptions of old Amnesty International reports from the 2004 disturbances while Chavez was under arrest (passed of as citations against Chavez) I would criticize Chavez as vehemently as I do George Bush.

But every report I have found indicates that things in Venezuela, under Chavez, are getting better, and only the very wealthy and privileged are objecting. Their objection is to a loss of power and wealth, which is the same objection behind the US government’s machinations.

The truth is, no one — not MonkeyBoy, not the United States government, and certainly not the Religious Reich — is the least bit concerned about Human Rights. If they were concerned about human rights, instead of setting up gulags to torture prisoners, or descending into dithyrambs of justification for that torture, they would get busy halting that obscenity.

No. What they are concerned — mightily concerned — about, is the diminution of American power over the government and people of Venezuela. That, and the infectious influence Venezuela’s emergence from beneath the fist of a duplicitous American foreign policy has upon the whole Latin American region.

By now, both you and Jimbo have probably ruined much of your credibility around here (at least on this topic) through dumb stunts like trying to pass off old reports as current, cobbling together bits from an Amnesty report to change its target, quoting a Religious News site with only one side of the exchange, and outright fabrication.

Both have been crying “Wolf” so long about Chavez, with so little proof, that it is amazing anybody responds to your baiting.

Youse (pl.) must have been at the head of your class in Trolling 101.

 

[I think not]

If you would offer a contemporary report of Human Rights violations which did not involve claims generated by the White House, one of its vassal departments, or Pat Robertson, nor were they your usual corruptions of old Amnesty International reports from the 2004 disturbances while Chavez was under arrest (passed of as citations against Chavez) I would criticize Chavez as vehemently as I do George Bush.

Let's see if you are true to your word

But every report I have found indicates that things in Venezuela, under Chavez, are getting better, and only the very wealthy and privileged are objecting. Their objection is to a loss of power and wealth, which is the same objection behind the US government’s machinations.

Read above

By now, both you and Jimbo have probably ruined much of your credibility around here (at least on this topic) through dumb stunts like trying to pass off old reports as current, cobbling together bits from an Amnesty report to change its target, quoting a Religious News site with only one side of the exchange, and outright fabrication.

Both have been crying “Wolf” so long about Chavez, with so little proof, that it is amazing anybody responds to your baiting.

Youse (pl.) must have been at the head of your class in Trolling 101.

The only posters around here that ruin their so called credibility, are those with double standards while hypocrisy drips from their mouth under the guise of equal rights.

 

[Nascar_James]

That's good GL, now do Brer Rabbit.

Tell me at which point the comparison stops and violations are acceptable to you as violations? You are willing to condone Human Rights violations of one leader for another. Great ethics you have there. Or are you just appeasing Chavez because he's a leftist and leftists don't do those sort of things :roll:

If you would offer a contemporary report of Human Rights violations which did not involve claims generated by the White House, one of its vassal departments, or Pat Robertson, nor were they your usual corruptions of old Amnesty International reports from the 2004 disturbances while Chavez was under arrest (passed of as citations against Chavez) I would criticize Chavez as vehemently as I do George Bush.

 

[Nascar_James]

That's good GL, now do Brer Rabbit.

Tell me at which point the comparison stops and violations are acceptable to you as violations? You are willing to condone Human Rights violations of one leader for another. Great ethics you have there. Or are you just appeasing Chavez because he's a leftist and leftists don't do those sort of things :roll:

Both have been crying “Wolf” so long about Chavez, with so little proof, that it is amazing anybody responds to your baiting.

Little proof? Wake up GL, Chavez's dictatorship is at the world stage now. His days are numbered ...

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Pot calling the kettle black........

interesting that you should bring up such a photo.....

..........seems ya is a tad defensive about your own leader being placed in such photos too.. and he of all people has CENTER STAGE now.

seems that the neocons/ aka bush desciples are just looking for someone/thing to deflect the attention of themselves. Won't work.

Must really diss you all off to hear Chevez gaining popularity and support for his remarks to and about your assinine boy-wannabee emperor /king. Shoe on the other foot for once?? Now you might find out what it has felt like for the many nations you abused/and terrorized for so many years.

and YES......PROOF..........as so far all that has been presented is hysteria.

Maybe what we should examine is the poll ratings ......ie. Chevez' ratings with HIS population .........and compare them to the mercurial.....bush un-popularity ratings. (last report was 34%.....in favor.......aka disciple/bush followers. ......but even they (die hards) are weakening. Ya see after a while reason does prevail......but it might still take a lot of time.

.

 

[jimmoyer]

Congratulations goes to Nascar_James and IthinkNot, two people who are the right and left of American politics and two people who have a little stability in mitigating the extremes of the world mobocracy.

The world is about to stumble on its pious righteousness.

Chavez will teach the Canadian liberal left why this prediction will come true.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

No one is saying that Chevez doesn't come with flaws.....and some serious ones. But if what he is doing is working effectively in HIS country for HIS people.......and he isn't meddling with invasions in other nations...... let's just watch to see how this evolves. Sure he lashes out at bush......but damn it , bush has earned every bit of the bashing he is getting and then some.

Don't think that labels of left, right, conservative left and blah blah help much as all they do is BRAND people into little boxes and depersonalize them. No one is a pure "liberal" or pure conservative....etc........and if they come close they are extremist. which brings in another adjective /category into the mix.

 

[jimmoyer]

I'm just saying slow down, Ocean Breeze, slow down.

Take it easy. Watch this guy. There are no rules that will hold your heroic philospher king down.

I grant you that the Bush interference was both morally and strategically wrong. And Chavez will intelligently use this to great advantage, but look intently at the structure of that system down there.

You think how hard it is for a democracy to hold down the executive branch of America?

Well just watch the demagogue of Venezuela win all the hearts and minds and watch how no structural check has the power to criticize much less veto his executive actions ?

Caveat Emptor.

I lay out the warning for those of the antiBush liberal persuasion not to embrace this, and perhaps give it time to decide what is true and what is not.

I've seen a man of the people whip up not only the mob in his own country but also the mob of the world.

Chavez can do it.

I wish him well.

But I hope his people fare well in a decade if he is the man he claims.

 

[no1important]

Chávez builds grass-roots support in U.S.


WASHINGTON — Miami's Jesus Soto supports Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez's vision of "participatory democracy." Valerie Pusch of Chicago backs Chávez because of his policies on behalf of the poor.

And they say so loudly, as heads of their local Bolivarian Circles — among the dozen or so U.S. copies of the groups Chávez has set up throughout his country to mobilize Venezuelans on behalf of his socialist "revolution."

Even as Chávez attacks President Bush as his sworn nemesis, his government is running a strong campaign to curry favor with U.S. citizens through leftist grass-roots groups, paid lobbyists and public-relations operatives and offers of cheap fuel for America's poor.

The Venezuelan leader is running a "grass-roots foreign policy," said Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, D.C., a group that supports Chávez.

Interesting and by watching American news one would be misled to believe most Americans hated Chavez. Click above link for rest of article from Seattle Times.