Chavez GET SOME!

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Funny how there's alway a group of "students" handy. Personally, I'd like to see their student identification cards. The CIA has been funding protest groups since Chevez came to power. No doubt the oil companies are not too happy with Chavez's policies.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Paranoia will destroy ya....

Muz reports it's only the tip of the iceberg. Chavez is too good to be true for a lot of reasons - but you can't just invade based on sensationalism or because their ideology isn't the same as yours. From unbiassed observation comes truth.

Woof!

Ahhhh...the perpetual paranoid trying to deflect his own paranoia.

Who said anything about invading? I surely didn't. Chavez is sowing the seeds of his own collapse.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Funny how there's alway a group of "students" handy. Personally, I'd like to see their student identification cards. The CIA has been funding protest groups since Chevez came to power. No doubt the oil companies are not too happy with Chavez's policies.

:lol:

Yes...80,000 CIA operatives and protests in seven cities.

Do you think people may be upset with losing their rights? No...of course not! Chavez has smelt the sulfur of the Devil himself! Everyone loves Chavez...those who don't are CIA operatives and big oil advocates!
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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I believe Chavez has the potential to be a dangerous dictator. But i can identify very specifically the roots of his ascent. It's laid out very comprehensively by Naomi Klein in her book the Shock Doctrine.. about the imposition of 'Chicago School' (Friedman/Hayek) Free Market, Free Trade, Monetarist doctrine that was imposed at the point of the bayonet on countries like Chile under Pinochet and Argentina.. and world wide. It caused utter misery and economic chaos, rampant looting of natural resources, usery and labour exploitation.

Much of Chavez' initial policies.. like nationalizing natural resources, natural monopolies (utilities, communications, transportation).. fiduciary responsbility of currency and credit.. is constructive and falls into the developmental policies that built the West. I'm just not sure he knows where to stop. He seems destined to move from the ''third way'.. into purer forms of socialism.. which will be as disastrous as ungoverned capitalism. The U.S. imposed the Chicago policies on Latin America.. with no care for who it hurt, and at best lip service to democracy and an equitable distribution of wealth.. and now its facing a major blowback for the bankruptcy of those policies.

I wouldn't take Naomi Klein too seriously.

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/toros_running_of_the_bull/2007/10/people-take-nao.html
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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When any (Spanish, French British etc.) imperial nation convinces the people (taxpayers held hostage to the elite wealthy of these kinds of empires) that their "prosperity" pivots on petroleum and access to fossil fuels to feed the coffers of elitist "businessmen" (Al Capone, Billy the Kid, Ken Lay, etc.) the inevitable corruption and oppression of the elitist emerges.

America sets the example but Americans in general lack the enthusiasm to practice "regime-change" at home where it could make a difference to the world.....

Duh...must be Americans....
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I believe Chavez has the potential to be a dangerous dictator. But i can identify very specifically the roots of his ascent. It's laid out very comprehensively by Naomi Klein in her book the Shock Doctrine.. about the imposition of 'Chicago School' (Friedman/Hayek) Free Market, Free Trade, Monetarist doctrine that was imposed at the point of the bayonet on countries like Chile under Pinochet and Argentina.. and world wide. It caused utter misery and economic chaos, rampant looting of natural resources, usery and labour exploitation.

Much of Chavez' initial policies.. like nationalizing natural resources, natural monopolies (utilities, communications, transportation).. fiduciary responsbility of currency and credit.. is constructive and falls into the developmental policies that built the West. I'm just not sure he knows where to stop. He seems destined to move from the ''third way'.. into purer forms of socialism.. which will be as disastrous as ungoverned capitalism. The U.S. imposed the Chicago policies on Latin America.. with no care for who it hurt, and at best lip service to democracy and an equitable distribution of wealth.. and now its facing a major blowback for the bankruptcy of those policies.

Hello coldstream; while you believe Chavez has the potential to be a dangerous dictator Uncle Sam and the capitalist hordes fear him, and his like, for the opposite reason of his democratic social programes. In other words, they fear democracy itself, and that is the threat of Chavez and grassroots socialism. Klien and many others have made this abundentantly clear. Democracy threatens the upperclass western world while dictatorships have never been a barrier to them.
Klien ignors her own work completely when she states that the tower job was not a homegrown operation, she maps out the machinations of disaster capitalism and the imposed construct of consent and then takes pains to inform us that 9/11 was not an inside job but rather an oportunity provided by an act of forigne terrorism. This has been noted by many readers, some believe it so inconsistant with her research that she must have been aware of the controversy this would engender. The 9/11 connection may have frightened her off, as it has many others or she did it on purpose to highlight the event and the effort behind it. Whatever the case she could not have been unaware of the conflict, to describe how crisis/disaster capitalism works and then miss the prime example of it's exercise is inconsistent with her own work.
Many writers will do anything to avoid being painted with the conspiracy nut brush.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
8 Injured After Anti-Hugo Chavez March

By SANDRA SIERRA
[SIZE=-2]Associated Press Writer[/SIZE]

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -

1108dvs-venezuela-protests Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.
Photographers for The Associated Press saw at least four gunmen - their faces covered by ski masks or T-shirts - firing handguns at the anti-Chavez crowd. Terrified students ran through the campus as ambulances arrived.
National Guard troops gathered outside the Central University of Venezuela, the nation's largest and a center for opposition to Chavez's government. Venezuelan law bars state security forces from entering the campus, but Luis Acuna, the minister of higher education, said they could be called in if the university requests them.
Antonio Rivero, director of Venezuela's Civil Defense agency, told Union Radio that at least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, and that no one had been killed. Earlier, Rivero said he had been informed that one person had died in the violence.
The violence broke out after anti-Chavez demonstrators - led by university students - marched peacefully to the Supreme Court to protest constitutional changes that Venezuelans will consider in a December referendum.
Globovision television broadcast a video of armed men riding motorcycles arriving at the university, where they entered the building in which several of the gunmen were located. The pistol-toting men stood at the doorway - one of them firing a handgun in the air - as people fled the building.
State TV showed footage of angry anti-Chavez students - many of them with their faces covered by T-shirts - setting fire to benches and throwing rocks at the building where the gunmen were hiding before the armed men on motorcycles arrived.
Justice Minister Pedro Carreno blamed students, university authorities, opposition parties and the media for the violence.
"We want to urge the media to reflect, to stop broadcasting biased news through media manipulation, filling a part of the population with hate," Carreno said in a televised address.
He did not provide details about the number of injured or if any suspects were arrested.
University students also staged demonstrations in the cities of Merida, Maracaibo, Puerto La Cruz, San Cristobal and Barquisimeto on Wednesday. Several of those protests turned violent with rock-throwing students clashing with police shooting plastic bullets at demonstrators.
The amendments being protested would abolish presidential term limits, give the president control over the Central Bank and let him create new provinces governed by handpicked officials.
The protesters demand the referendum be suspended, saying the amendments would weaken civil liberties and give Chavez unprecedented power to declare states of emergency.
"Don't allow Venezuela to go down a path that nobody wants to cross," student leader Freddy Guevara told Globovision during the march to the Supreme Court.
Chavez, who was first elected in 1998, denies the reforms threaten freedom. He says they would instead move Venezuela toward what he calls "21st century socialism."
In televised comments prior to the unrest, Chavez urged Venezuelans to turn out en masse to vote for the reforms. In reference to the opposition, he said: "Don't go crazy." The Supreme Court is unlikely to act on the students' demands, given that pro-Chavez lawmakers appointed all 32 of its justices.


YAHOOO! GO CHAVEZ! OUR HERO!


We always have to keep in mind there is a fundamental difference between socialism and commonwealth. even though the media tries to spin them as the same thing....

Socialism is imposed on the People....and is a construct of central command control, commonwealth is by nature decentralized and democratic....
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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Funny how there's alway a group of "students" handy. Personally, I'd like to see their student identification cards. The CIA has been funding protest groups since Chevez came to power. No doubt the oil companies are not too happy with Chavez's policies.

Please just consider for a second the fact that you are wrong. Look at your words and look how disgusting they become. A group of innocent students who only what what is best for the country gunned downed in cold blood for having a different opinion opinion then the president. People apologized for Hitlar and said that the Jews in the death camp must have done something wrong, just as you apologize for Chevez and dehumanize the students by calling them nothing but a bunch of CIA operatives. It saddens me that people let their ideology blind themselves from the atrocities committed in the name of that ideology.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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``It saddens me that people let their ideology blind themselves from the atrocities committed in the name of that ideology. ``


If what you are saying is true, then show me where you have previously posted great disgust for the crimes being committed by Bush in Iraq and by Reagan in Guatemala.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Chillliwack, BC

Klein's thesis has its weaknesses.. in some cases falling into rote acceptance of the left's icons and idols.. including Global Warming. However, this is the best book i have seen in comprehensively looking at the motives and calamities that have been imposed on the 'southern cone' of the hemisphere.. by the U.S... by the WTO/IMF/WTO.. in 'Chicago School' neoliberalism. It is an utterly amoral and destructive force that makes a few people very rich, and puts economies into a spirralling descent.

I would suggest this website an article was written by interests who deeply resent their game of artificial crises drummed up.. and then solutions imposed of privatization, deindustrialization, currency sabatoge.. being exposed. Read the book and see whether her arguments or these of some corporatist agenda stool, like the author of this article.. has more merit.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Please just consider for a second the fact that you are wrong. Look at your words and look how disgusting they become. A group of innocent students who only what what is best for the country gunned downed in cold blood for having a different opinion opinion then the president. People apologized for Hitlar and said that the Jews in the death camp must have done something wrong, just as you apologize for Chevez and dehumanize the students by calling them nothing but a bunch of CIA operatives. It saddens me that people let their ideology blind themselves from the atrocities committed in the name of that ideology.

Your stating something is wrong does not make it wrong. The stories coming out of Venezuela are not all against Chevez. The American arm of the international trade unions, CIA, and the oil companies have all been funding protesters since Chevez was elected...,.Fairly, I might add......twice...
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Your stating something is wrong does not make it wrong. The stories coming out of Venezuela are not all against Chevez. The American arm of the international trade unions, CIA, and the oil companies have all been funding protesters since Chevez was elected...,.Fairly, I might add......twice...

And it is apparent that he is making sure that when there is a political threat that he will not be voted out.


Funding protestors. :lol:


Like I said...then the CIA just "funded" 80,000 protesters in seven different cities!
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Besides...his goons only shot one innocent protester. That isn't all so bad is it? :roll:
 

EagleSmack

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As I wrote above, maybe he should follow Musharraf's example and then the board's right wingers will love him for doing so.;-)


Why follow anyone elses example when he is doing just fine on his own? I am sure he will eventually be a dictator for life just like Musharraf is trying to be for the sake of security.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Reviled by United States

Venezuela was named in 2005 as "the leading Latin American nation to be alarmed about" by Porter Goss, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Eva Golinger reported February 16, 2006, for Venezuelanalysis.com.
Venezuela headed the list of five Latin American countries. Others on the list were Colombia, Haiti, Mexico and Cuba. [1]
"In testimony before the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence regarding 'Global Intelligence Challenges 2005: Meeting Long-Term Challenges with a Long-Term Strategy', Goss classified Venezuela as a 'potential area for instability' for this year. Considering Venezuela as a 'flashpoint' in 2005, the CIA Director alleged that President [Hugo] Chávez 'is consolidating his power by using technically legal tactics to target his opponents and meddling in the region.' Goss also raised alarm that Chávez is 'supported by [Cuba's] [Fidel] Castro'," Golinger wrote.
"Furthermore, the use of the term 'technically legal tactics' demonstrates the Bush Administration’s conundrum with Venezuela. While the U.S. Government has on numerous occasions publicly acknowledged that President Chávez has been democratically elected twice and won a transparent recall referendum by a landslide in August 2004, it has also launched a well coordinated campaign to isolate Venezuela internationally, labeling Chávez as a 'negative force to the region' and a 'threat to democracy.' The 'technically legal' also shows that the CIA is struggling to find a way to justify regime change in Venezuela: 'technically' Chávez’s actions are 'legal', but... [fill in the blanks]," Golinger wrote.
Meddling by any other name smells just as bad...
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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EagleSmack said:
I am sure he will eventually be a dictator for life just like Musharraf is trying to be for the sake of security.


Except that Musharraf illegally usurped the government.

Chavez was democratically elected and retains majority support.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
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Das Kapital
I believe Chavez has the potential to be a dangerous dictator. But i can identify very specifically the roots of his ascent. It's laid out very comprehensively by Naomi Klein in her book the Shock Doctrine.. about the imposition of 'Chicago School' (Friedman/Hayek) Free Market, Free Trade, Monetarist doctrine that was imposed at the point of the bayonet on countries like Chile under Pinochet and Argentina.. and world wide. It caused utter misery and economic chaos, rampant looting of natural resources, usery and labour exploitation.

Much of Chavez' initial policies.. like nationalizing natural resources, natural monopolies (utilities, communications, transportation).. fiduciary responsbility of currency and credit.. is constructive and falls into the developmental policies that built the West. I'm just not sure he knows where to stop. He seems destined to move from the ''third way'.. into purer forms of socialism.. which will be as disastrous as ungoverned capitalism. The U.S. imposed the Chicago policies on Latin America.. with no care for who it hurt, and at best lip service to democracy and an equitable distribution of wealth.. and now its facing a major blowback for the bankruptcy of those policies.

Actually, their desire for WTO membership and other international institutions such as the international monetary fund and world bank imposed 'Chicago School' theorys, reagardless of who it hurt.