Catholic Discussion

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
Fatima, Portugal " Our Lady of Fatima "



The Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, appeared 6 times to 3 sheperd children; Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta; between May 13 and October 13, 1917. She came to the little village of Fatima which had remained faithful to the Catholic Church during the recent persecutions by the government. Our Lady came with a message from God to every man, woman, and child of our century. Our Lady of Fatima promised that the whole world would be in peace, and that many souls would go to Heaven if Her requests were listened to and obeyed. She told us that war is a punishment for sin; that God would punish the world for its sins in our time by means of war, hunger, persecution of the Church and persecution of the Holy Father, the Pope, unless we listened to and obeyed the command of God. At Fatima, Pope John Paul II said on May 13; " the message of Fatima is more relevant and more urgent " then when Our Lady first appeared. The message is an anguished appeal of our Heavenly Mother, Who sees us in great danger and Who comes to offer Her help and advice. Her message is also a prophesy, a clear indication of what was about to transpire in the 20th century, and what is still going to happen infallibly in the near future, depending on our response to Her requests.
THE MIRACLE
As a great sign of the whole message truly coming from God, a marvelous miracle was worked in the sky above Fatima before 70,000 witnesses on October 13, 1917 at the time, date and place that Lucy and the other two children had prophesised in the name of Our Lady of Fatima. The children were told by Our Lady that God would perform a miracle so that people would believe in the apparitions. The date the children was October 13, 1917, in Fatima. On that date, 70,000 people came to see the phenomenon. The miracle occured with the sun. All could stare perfectly at the sun without blinking, or even hurting heir eyes. While all were watching the sun, it rotated, got large and small, got close to the people, and got far away from them. The sun " danced ". Every single person who was there testified to seeing the sun dance, even non- believers who immediately dropped onto their knees and begged for forgiveness.
MIRACLES TODAY Our Lady of Fatima continues to work miracles today through Fatima water which is sent from Fatima, Portugal around the world. This Fatima water sprang up in Fatima at the spot the Bishop told people to dig, very near where Our Lady appeared at the Cova de Iria (the Cove of Peace) in Fatima. The water is known to cure people with sicknesses and poor health. Still, other people are cured when they go on pilgrimage to Fatima, which is about 90 miles north of Lisbon, Portugal.



A MESSAGE OF WARNING AND HOPE
If we do not heed Our Lady's warnings soon, the Her horrible prophesy may well be realized in the near future, even in our own back yards. She told us that God had chosen to use Russia as the instrument of chastisement to punish the whole world if we did not, by our obedience, prayers, and sacrifices, obtain conversion of Russia to the Catholic faith. She promises us: " If my requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. " But She also warned us: " If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread her errors throughout the world raising up wars and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. " She has told us that the whole world (the part surviving) will be enslaved by the atheistic tyrants of Russia.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
Just curious, why didn't you? The rosary is my favourite daily devotion. I have great respect and devotion to our Mother.

Mine too actually. Well, when the kids were younger I used to say the rosary with them, but it seemed as they started to grow older we dropped the custom somehow.Actually, of the three only my son and his family are regular members of a parish. Both my daughters are "hit and miss" Church members, or in other words when it suits them.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
I've always found this a very interesting experience. In fact, the parish I grew up in was Our Lady of Fatima.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
I am not in it for selfish reasons. The Guard, is not differing in beliefs in the Bible. No, its not that. T

They are wanting to take over, and control it. Every religious person knows them. The old Guard, who you probably wouldn't call "Christian" at all, and they are not there to worship God, they are there for power.

So do I attend a church, worship, and not care, or take action to wrong-doings in a place of worship that is supposed to be about God, not the people in it.

Why is it up to you to take action? Who set you up as the judge of these people? Did you speak with the priest?
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
I prolly should keep my mouth shut but here I go anyway......... In my experience all "groups" have "dramas" I personally can understand your fustrasion. I recently found a group I can find fellowship with and I feel accepted. I drive 2 hours to get there and its worth the travel. Maybe you could look outside your area or start a small group of people you trust and fellowship that way. Please forgive me for butting in. But I do feelyour fustration. I hope you work it out.

It is frustrating, to be sure. Some of the "Old Guard" can be rather daunting in a parish! I think I might fall into that category! Not the nasty part, but the "old guard" definition. I've been involved with my parish for over 30 years now. It does get to the point where one gets used to things a certain way. Good to have that shaken up by younger people though!
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
Mine too actually. Well, when the kids were younger I used to say the rosary with them, but it seemed as they started to grow older we dropped the custom somehow.Actually, of the three only my son and his family are regular members of a parish. Both my daughters are "hit and miss" Church members, or in other words when it suits them.

As are far too many "good" Catholics I'm afraid.
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
I am not in it for selfish reasons. The Guard, is not differing in beliefs in the Bible. No, its not that. T

They are wanting to take over, and control it. Every religious person knows them. The old Guard, who you probably wouldn't call "Christian" at all, and they are not there to worship God, they are there for power.

So do I attend a church, worship, and not care, or take action to wrong-doings in a place of worship that is supposed to be about God, not the people in it.

What sort of action do you advocate taking? Isn't that the sin of pride coming out?
 

canadarocks

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2006
233
6
18
These are questions asked by everyone, regardless of religious belief. We are always trying to figure this out, every second of every day.
 

canadarocks

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2006
233
6
18
What sort of action do you advocate taking? Isn't that the sin of pride coming out?

Okay, probably should butt out. Not a church-goer here, buttt having said that, I dislike new people coming into a situation who take it up themselves to reform the organization they've just joined.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
15
38
Northern California
These are questions asked by everyone, regardless of religious belief. We are always trying to figure this out, every second of every day.

When I was around six years old and being raised a Catholic, I used to pray the rosary too.
My oldest sister won a statue of the virgin Mary at a carnival and I had placed it on the dresser.

At that time my dad and I were staying at th house we vacated because we had moved out of town.
Well one night my dad and I were sleeping in the same room on bunk beds, when I set up the Virgin Mary on the dresser. I knelt down before her and started to pray the rosary with my dad looking on from his bunk.

That night my dad started to think that there was something not exactly correct in what he observed me doing and decided that he was going to look into it more seriously.

Note here that as far as I was concerned, I was doing it out of faith as like a little child.
I have always maintained that same faith till this very day.

I am no longer a Catholic or any of all the denominations but simply a Christian.

That child like faith has matured to adulthood to where wisdom of understanding has been granted me.
I now see all souls as beloved of God and am religious belief blind, color blind, race blind and see only the souls of mankind.

Love for my brethren being the one thing that motivates me to live justly and rightly and making my life worth living.

It is not the rosary, the church, the personal sacrifices, but faith in God that makes the difference.

Now, if praying the rosary keeps one close to God, than by all means use it. If the church keeps one close to God, than by all means go to church. If a priest helps one keep close to God than by all means enlist his help.
But as I have matured in my belief in God, I need none of these things for I have Jesus that is my all.
I am an independent soul totally dependent on Jesus for my every thing in life.

I therefore instruct others to that end as well.
When I pray, I go directly to Jesus. Speak to Him as I am speaking to all of you.
For He abides in my heart and there is where I can reach Him instantly.

I encourage all to continue in their perspective religions, but only to look at Jesus a little closer as their source of strength, companionship and comforter.

If there are to be any changes, Jesus will institute them in you as you grow towards maturity of faith.

I have been blessed my entire life, more than what I deserve, and can only praise my Lord Jesus for honoring this one vessel with His love.

In gratitude, honor and loyalty, I surrendered my life into His hands. The world and mankind can kill this body, but my soul shall never be touched, for Jesus holds it in His protection until the day I see Him face to face.

Than shall my salvation be complete.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
They are wanting to take over, and control it. Every religious person knows them. The old Guard, who you probably wouldn't call "Christian" at all, and they are not there to worship God, they are there for power.

So do I attend a church, worship, and not care, or take action to wrong-doings in a place of worship that is supposed to be about God, not the people in it.

Well, firstly..... to say that the senior people within the church are there only to seize it for their own power, to control, and not to worship, is one of the most judgemental things I've heard in a long time. You have no way of knowing the motivations behind what they do. Keep in mind that many people end up misguided and set in their ways. It doesn't mean that they are not in it for Christ, or for a sense of fellowship and worship.

Does it mean you should still attend a church? If you're sitting in a pew doing nothing but worrying about the motivations behind all of the people around you, why bother? It strikes me that you're probably looking for people to back you up in your justification of not attending masses, but, if you honestly want to worship, I'd suggest some personal reflection, to examine the reasons why you are unable to focus on the faith rather than the people within it.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Why do people feel it necessary to introduce themselves "through their church"....

Does it indicate they feel they themselves as humans in the securlar world are not enough?

Does it indicate they wish us to believe they are "good and honest" and valuable people?

Does it indicate they are so filled with joy they want to tell it to the world - even a forum world?

Does it indicate the more they say the words the more truthful them become?


I have always wanted to ask this question and this topic seems to be incorporating the same
questions I always have ...

I rarely mention my church, my faith, my belief, my attendance, etc. when meeting new people. I think it is important to allow the new person to judge me for whatever topics they introduce and my responses - whether interested or not - I am a good and loyal friend. That should be enough for me.

It seems to me coming straight out of the door with "I am devoutly religious" is a thrusting of the sword immediately to challenge any newcomer into our lives..... either they accept my devotion or get out of my way....

If I am wrong, I apologize.... perhaps I see far too much in what people mean......
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
In gratitude, honor and loyalty, I surrendered my life into His hands. The world and mankind can kill this body, but my soul shall never be touched, for Jesus holds it in His protection until the day I see Him face to face.

Than shall my salvation be complete.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:


Here's what I got from your ten mile long post, AJ is above God and has dismissed the things God calls him to do, like being part of the Church for example. Aj knows more about God than the Church, The priests and the saints..that's about my take of what you wrote here AJ>
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
Why do people feel it necessary to introduce themselves "through their church"....

Does it indicate they feel they themselves as humans in the securlar world are not enough?

Does it indicate they wish us to believe they are "good and honest" and valuable people?

Does it indicate they are so filled with joy they want to tell it to the world - even a forum world?

Does it indicate the more they say the words the more truthful them become?......

Good points. I guess for me it is one of the ways I identify who I am. I don't mean it, when i say I am Roman Catholic, to suggest I'm better or holier. I know I've come across like that, but that is not at all how I meant it, I take my faith seriously and enjoy being very involved in the parish, so I guess that is one reason I so strongly identify with it. I do admit, though, that it rarely comes up in actual conversations.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
Well, firstly..... to say that the senior people within the church are there only to seize it for their own power, to control, and not to worship, is one of the most judgemental things I've heard in a long time. You have no way of knowing the motivations behind what they do. Keep in mind that many people end up misguided and set in their ways. It doesn't mean that they are not in it for Christ, or for a sense of fellowship and worship.

Does it mean you should still attend a church? If you're sitting in a pew doing nothing but worrying about the motivations behind all of the people around you, why bother? It strikes me that you're probably looking for people to back you up in your justification of not attending masses, but, if you honestly want to worship, I'd suggest some personal reflection, to examine the reasons why you are unable to focus on the faith rather than the people within it.

That is what many of us have been saying to him. The issue whould be self-directed. In other words, what can I offer, what can I do..not..what THEY are doing or not doing.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
MaryG

Thank you - I think perhaps it is the topic which makes me think of some who have introduced themselves as regular members of this or that denomination.... like I should be careful of the subjects in conversation (or in my case usually a group of people).

I don't know why I take umbrage at their attitudes - but it seems less than humble.....and perhaps I am more private in my first hand "confessions"....

In my wild banshee temper I always have to force myself not to start topics I know would get their shackles up.... but that is me unfortunately.... always chained to the temper! lol
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
76
MaryG

Thank you - I think perhaps it is the topic which makes me think of some who have introduced themselves as regular members of this or that denomination.... like I should be careful of the subjects in conversation (or in my case usually a group of people).

I don't know why I take umbrage at their attitudes - but it seems less than humble.....and perhaps I am more private in my first hand "confessions"....

In my wild banshee temper I always have to force myself not to start topics I know would get their shackles up.... but that is me unfortunately.... always chained to the temper! lol

I have that temper gene too, just ask my husband! He has learned to totally ignore me, as all men end up doing:)

I never thought of it the way you put it, but it makes sense. Also, it just came to me that announcing one's religion puts up an automatic wall, dosen't it! suddenly, I am CATHOLIC and if you're not, you have to work around the CATHOLIC WALL I've just erected.:-0
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
I'll build my Anglican wall..you know just like the Catholic wall, just lighter..hehehehe...

Honestly though...It's people who are corrupt not nessararly the religon!! If we find there is a Child molester posing as a Boy scout leader taking advantage of his charges, it is not the Boy scouts who are corupt, niether is it their organization. If someone would find a denomiation corupt they will likely still find individual congregations under that sect who do not follow "head office" and do dirrectly the Lords work...

It's so easy to condem but much harder look look deep!!
 

darleneonfire

Electoral Member
Jan 12, 2007
203
2
18
65
Ontario
I'll build my Anglican wall..you know just like the Catholic wall, just lighter..hehehehe...

Honestly though...It's people who are corrupt not nessararly the religon!! If we find there is a Child molester posing as a Boy scout leader taking advantage of his charges, it is not the Boy scouts who are corupt, niether is it their organization. If someone would find a denomiation corupt they will likely still find individual congregations under that sect who do not follow "head office" and do dirrectly the Lords work...

It's so easy to condem but much harder look look deep!!


We're Anglican too, only a few years back we left the commonion for the "rebel" traditionalist BCP church-The Anglican Catholic Church of Canada. Our Primate is located in Ottawa!


You're right about parishes though, it's people, not the parish itself that are the problem.