Carl Sagan Dedicated Pothead

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
To be fair, alot of people are addicted to pot, in that they are addicted to what pot is laced with, and as they don't know, they just smoke more pot.

Another thing criminalization does is eliminate safety and quality controls. Much like adding a little anti-freeze or pen ink to some hooch for a little extra kick, people do add addictive chemicals to pot for repeat customers.

And they do it because pot is already illegal.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Thanks guys! Got a good chuckle out of this little exchange.

One of the main reasons pot is illegal is that it is harder to feed someone who is high a bunch of BS. The depth of perception pot stimulates allows one to see clearly what is presented - a kind of anti-brainwashing tool that those in control do not want you to have. It is so much harder to manipulate someone who is high. They will just laugh at you and those who fancy themselves as have "authority" cannot handle being laughed at.

.

Cliffy, I think pot should be legal.

I don't partake now.........and haven't for quite some time.

The above statement, however, is definitely going to make the Top One Hundred Silliest Posts.

You can talk stoned people into practically anything.... :)
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
To be fair, alot of people are addicted to pot, in that they are addicted to what pot is laced with, and as they don't know, they just smoke more pot.

Another thing criminalization does is eliminate safety and quality controls. Much like adding a little anti-freeze or pen ink to some hooch for a little extra kick, people do add addictive chemicals to pot for repeat customers.

And they do it because pot is already illegal.

Yeah ok there is some world wide conspiricy. How does this business go about lacing pot with some other addictive drug? Genetics? :lol:
Maybe a group of elves working through the night?
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Nope that pretty much did the trick. I re-read what we said here and I think I misunderstood what you meant. Just a few words you used, I considered with another definition than what you actually seemed to mean.


No matter. It's all part in parcel with the new and improved, kinder, gentler Said1. I pretty much agree with everyone and everything now. The re-programming was a success1
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Cliffy, I think pot should be legal.

I don't partake now.........and haven't for quite some time.
The above statement, however, is definitely going to make the Top One Hundred Silliest Posts.
You can talk stoned people into practically anything....


Colpy,

You know, you may be right. I just re-read it and I have no idea what I was trying to say. Maybe a flash back. :)
I had a friend once who spent a whole year getting high and trying to figure out how to harness his farts so he could cook his meals with the methane. It is really hard to generalize about anything and pot affects everyone differently. For some really smart people it can make them more analytical and for some less than intelligent people, it can make them a little dumber.
But the health hazards are rather minimal considering that no one has ever died from it and that thousands die every year from prescription drugs.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63

Did you bother to read any of the links you provided?

Here is the fact. In a very small portion 2.1% of people who have a predisposition for schizophrenia may show symptoms earlier that they might if they chrionicly abuse pot when they are young.

Not 2.1% of all people, or people who smoke pot or people who abuse pot chronically while they are young. 2.1% of people who have a higher chance of developing schizophrenia already, may have an earlier onset of the mental condition according to statistical data taken from the Danish Institute. So there is an ever so slight risk there.

Fact is, no one knows what causes schizophrenia. Nor is it just one thing, it's many things together. Here is a little bit about it.

What causes schizophrenia?


Like many other illnesses, schizophrenia is believed to result from a combination of environmental and genetic factors. All the tools of modern science are being used to search for the causes of this disorder.
Can schizophrenia be inherited?
Scientists have long known that schizophrenia runs in families. It occurs in 1 percent of the general population but is seen in 10 percent of people with a first-degree relative (a parent, brother, or sister) with the disorder. People who have second-degree relatives (aunts, uncles, grandparents, or cousins) with the disease also develop schizophrenia more often than the general population. The identical twin of a person with schizophrenia is most at risk, with a 40 to 65 percent chance of developing the disorder.
Our genes are located on 23 pairs of chromosomes that are found in each cell. We inherit two copies of each gene, one from each parent. Several of these genes are thought to be associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia, but scientists believe that each gene has a very small effect and is not responsible for causing the disease by itself. It is still not possible to predict who will develop the disease by looking at genetic material.
Although there is a genetic risk for schizophrenia, it is not likely that genes alone are sufficient to cause the disorder. Interactions between genes and the environment are thought to be necessary for schizophrenia to develop. Many environmental factors have been suggested as risk factors, such as exposure to viruses or malnutrition in the womb, problems during birth, and psychosocial factors, like stressful environmental conditions.
Do people with schizophrenia have faulty brain chemistry?
It is likely that an imbalance in the complex, interrelated chemical reactions of the brain involving the neurotransmitters dopamine and glutamate (and possibly others) plays a role in schizophrenia. Neurotransmitters are substances that allow brain cells to communicate with one another. Basic knowledge about brain chemistry and its link to schizophrenia is expanding rapidly and is a promising area of research.
Do the brains of people with schizophrenia look different?
The brains of people with schizophrenia look a little different than the brains of healthy people, but the differences are small. Sometimes the fluid-filled cavities at the center of the brain, called ventricles, are larger in people with schizophrenia; overall gray matter volume is lower; and some areas of the brain have less or more metabolic activity. Microscopic studies of brain tissue after death have also revealed small changes in the distribution or characteristics of brain cells in people with schizophrenia. It appears that many of these changes were prenatal because they are not accompanied by glial cells, which are always present when a brain injury occurs after birth. One theory suggests that problems during brain development lead to faulty connections that lie dormant until puberty. The brain undergoes major changes during puberty, and these changes could trigger psychotic symptoms.
The only way to answer these questions is to conduct more research. Scientists in the United States and around the world are studying schizophrenia and trying to develop new ways to prevent and treat the disorder.

But making bold claims like pot causes schizophrenia attract attention and money too. So there is a motive for the less scrupulous to make such a suggestion isn't there?

Now let's put it into context.

No one has died from smoking pot. Allergies and mouldy buds, have made some people quite sick, but that's the allergy and the mould that is to blame. In the same way that peanut butter isn't a killer because some people are allergic.

An exhaustive search of the literature finds no credible reports of deaths induced by marijuana. The US Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) records instances of drug mentions in medical examiners' reports, and though marijuana is mentioned, it is usually in combination with alcohol or other drugs. Marijuana alone has not been shown to cause an overdose death.
Source:
National Academy Press, 1999), available on the web at http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/; and US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 57.

Let's put that in contrast.
These are American figures by the way.

Tobacco: Over 400,000 per year.
Alcohol: Over 85,000 per year.
Asprin: Over 7000 people per year.
Pot: 0

The sale and cultivation of Pot is a totally unregulated underground industry that is for the most part controled by organized crime.

Here is some perspective for you. A regular drinker of coffee is going to have a much more difficult time of quitting coffee than your average pot smoker will have in quitting the weed.

You should think about that for a bit.

Now consider all the laws that are made and the efforts of some people to put an end to smoking pot. At the moment the US spends about $600 per second on the drug war. Per second.
All for a plant that is harmless.

Now that's an organized crime.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Did you bother to read any of the links you provided?

Here is the fact. In a very small portion 2.1% of people who have a predisposition for schizophrenia may show symptoms earlier that they might if they chrionicly abuse pot when they are young.

Not 2.1% of all people, or people who smoke pot or people who abuse pot chronically while they are young. 2.1% of people who have a higher chance of developing schizophrenia already, may have an earlier onset of the mental condition according to statistical data taken from the Danish Institute. So there is an ever so slight risk there.

Fact is, no one knows what causes schizophrenia. Nor is it just one thing, it's many things together. Here is a little bit about it.



But making bold claims like pot causes schizophrenia attract attention and money too. So there is a motive for the less scrupulous to make such a suggestion isn't there?

Now let's put it into context.

No one has died from smoking pot. Allergies and mouldy buds, have made some people quite sick, but that's the allergy and the mould that is to blame. In the same way that peanut butter isn't a killer because some people are allergic.



Let's put that in contrast.
These are American figures by the way.

Tobacco: Over 400,000 per year.
Alcohol: Over 85,000 per year.
Asprin: Over 7000 people per year.
Pot: 0

The sale and cultivation of Pot is a totally unregulated underground industry that is for the most part controled by organized crime.

Here is some perspective for you. A regular drinker of coffee is going to have a much more difficult time of quitting coffee than your average pot smoker will have in quitting the weed.

You should think about that for a bit.

Now consider all the laws that are made and the efforts of some people to put an end to smoking pot. At the moment the US spends about $600 per second on the drug war. Per second.
All for a plant that is harmless.

Now that's an organized crime.


Hey, I think pot should be legal.

You are preaching to the choir here.

At the same time, there are risks......in fact it is obvious that if smoking cigarettes causes 400,000 deaths in the USA every year, then smoking dope causes some as well......which throws your stats into disrepute, to say the least.

The Danish study is but one of many that show a link, the Danish one tenuous at best.

I know at least two potheads that wound up with serious mental illness.......cause - effect? Maybe, maybe not, who knows......but everything you do has consequences.......among those of dope smoking....

lowered testosterone levels

High intake of tar

Increased Risk of mental illness

Motivational dysfunction........

neurosis......paranoia, anxiety attacks......

And, yes, let me say it again, pot is LESS risky than either tobacco or alcohol, and should be legal.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Hey, I think pot should be legal.

You are preaching to the choir here.

At the same time, there are risks......in fact it is obvious that if smoking cigarettes causes 400,000 deaths in the USA every year, then smoking dope causes some as well......which throws your stats into disrepute, to say the least.

Yet it doesn't.

The Danish study is but one of many that show a link, the Danish one tenuous at best.

I wonder if any of those people in that or any other tests watched tv?
There you go, all of the people with schizophrenia watched tv. So tv must give you mental illness. Nice and easy to jump to a conclusion isn't it? While the body of medical science doesn't know what causes schizophrenia, you think that it's clear that pot does?

I know at least two potheads that wound up with serious mental illness.......cause - effect? Maybe, maybe not, who knows......but everything you do has consequences.......among those of dope smoking....

But if it causes serious mental illness then wouldn't everyone wind up with it? This being anicdotal aside, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that you haven't even the slightest idea why they developed serious mental illness?

lowered testosterone levels

heh heh heh Colpy my boy, that was refuted long ago in 1991 by U of Iowa. Even chronic use doesn't alter testosterone levels. Block's study is published in Drug and Alcohol Dependence, Vol. 28: 121-8 (1991).

High intake of tar

tsk tsk. In that study the whole ploant was burned. Stocks, roots, leaves, and buds. In a more recent study where only the buds, that's the part of the pot you smoke, the tar content was 1/3 that of a cigarette. Plus it's been shown that Pot doesn't cause Cancer. Ain't that something?

What's more vaporizing pot put much more THC into your blood stream than any method that involves smoking it with none of the tar at all.

Increased Risk of mental illness

Life is risky isn't it? Of course we dopn't know that it does increase the risk for any mental illness do we. So that's not really an issue or atleast shouldn't be.

Motivational dysfunction........

Now this is true. You know some of those studies that you are referring to were done by the military. This one for example showed that soldiers that were given large doses of THC didn't want to go off and fight anyone. That didn't go over well with the military. But I have heard of a conspiricy that the CIA had under taken a program of dumping pot seeds all over Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand in order to get the NVA and Vietcong high and not wanting to fight. And guess who ran right into huge patches of it? That's right American soldiers.

neurosis......paranoia, anxiety attacks......

I love that part of it! :D

Pot isn't going to produce anything that isn't already there. Mind you these are fleeting and after a hour or so gone.

And, yes, let me say it again, pot is LESS risky than either tobacco or alcohol, and should be legal.

Legal!?! Then kids will have to turn to parents to score mad weed for the weekend.8O
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
So tv must give you mental illness.

Unforgiven,

But this is true. Watching more than one hour a day on a regular basis can cause obesity and oxygen starvation to the brain, especially if it consists of the news. Watching TV is a passive inactivity and can cause brain cells to atrophy. Probably causes more brain damage than alcohol. I have no studies to point to but that has been my observation. Since I stopped watching TV my cognitive skills have increased (but some would challenge that :)
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
So tv must give you mental illness.

Unforgiven,

But this is true. Watching more than one hour a day on a regular basis can cause obesity and oxygen starvation to the brain, especially if it consists of the news. Watching TV is a passive inactivity and can cause brain cells to atrophy. Probably causes more brain damage than alcohol. I have no studies to point to but that has been my observation. Since I stopped watching TV my cognitive skills have increased (but some would challenge that :)

They could hardly have decreased, now could they????

:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: eh1eh

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
To be fair, alot of people are addicted to pot, in that they are addicted to what pot is laced with, and as they don't know, they just smoke more pot.

Another thing criminalization does is eliminate safety and quality controls. Much like adding a little anti-freeze or pen ink to some hooch for a little extra kick, people do add addictive chemicals to pot for repeat customers.

And they do it because pot is already illegal.

To be accurate a lot of people are not addicted to pot. People should be introduced to good quality cannibis in high school by teacher so they don't buy crap from unscupulous dealers like bikers who will adulterate their product.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
So tv must give you mental illness.

Unforgiven,

But this is true. Watching more than one hour a day on a regular basis can cause obesity and oxygen starvation to the brain, especially if it consists of the news. Watching TV is a passive inactivity and can cause brain cells to atrophy. Probably causes more brain damage than alcohol. I have no studies to point to but that has been my observation. Since I stopped watching TV my cognitive skills have increased (but some would challenge that :)

Nothing wrong with observation as long as it's called observation and not passed off as in depth clinical testing using the empirical method right?

That's my major gripe in this. Pot which can do a lot of good for people has been stigmatized to the point that it's considered deadly.
Those who choose to enjoy it's effects are demonetized and jailed at our own expense simply to make political careers.

Prohibition in Canada came about without any discussion, study or advise from anyone.

Now that so many people have been made criminals, some just kids who don't know how to protect themselves against malicious prosecution.

What's more, far too long has organized crime syndicates made huge piles of money off of the trade of Pot that goes on to pay for guns bought in the US and brought into Canada to be used in violent crime. Hard drugs that are dangerous and a myriad of crime that would not exist if not for prohibition of Pot.

Even to the extent of American DEA buying Pot seeds off of a Canadian in Canada and having him extradited to the US to face a life sentence in prison. Only because he makes them look bad.

It takes more than just a few hundred pot smokers gathered in Queens Part or Ottawa or anywhere else in the country to end this idiotic law.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC

It takes more than just a few hundred pot smokers gathered in Queens Part or Ottawa or anywhere else in the country to end this idiotic law.

Unforgiven,

True. It is too bad that the majority of smokers do not bother to stand up against this oppression. Too many people are worried about what others might think if they knew about their indulgences. That in itself is a form of slavery.
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
54
48
Tula
As for imprisoning the entire human population because of pot smoking... Look around. The planet is our prison or at least that is what the controllers think. I am beginning to suspect that Earth is a prison planet for the universe, has been to tens of thousands of years. Either that or the insane asylum for the universe.

The Earth is so beautiful, and so harmonious, and so well-balanced. The only element of discord is introduced by humans, and and not even humanity as such, but by those controllers you have mentioned. Unscrupulous ones, who have imposed a twisted mentality and a twisted society onto the majority of people, and keep up this twisted way, just to get their power and their wealth.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I don't smoke it myself. Gives me a bellyache. Wife either. The kids do, but they are recreational users at perhaps a couple doobies a week. If it's smoked in moderation I can't see the harm. I have seen a few people that smoke a few every day and boy, they certainly do have problems between the ears.
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
54
48
Tula
I'v seen a very few people experiance problems with cannabis. Usually it was from gross over use. However a long time ago I read that cannibis will tend to bring to the fore and magnify underlying problems.

It does, indeed. However absurd that might sound, cannabis makes you see a lot of things much clearer. It kind of strips away a lot of misconceptions and fallacies that you like to believe. And this is what makes people frightened, or agressive while under the influence of cannabis - they are forced to see things they don't like to acknowledge about themselves of their lives. This might range from smaller issues to large scale ones. And the evoked fear and agression can be so strong, that people never use cannabis again, as they don't know how to handle this state of mind or use it in a constructive way.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
It does, indeed. However absurd that might sound, cannabis makes you see a lot of things much clearer. It kind of strips away a lot of misconceptions and fallacies that you like to believe. And this is what makes people frightened, or agressive while under the influence of cannabis - they are forced to see things they don't like to acknowledge about themselves of their lives. This might range from smaller issues to large scale ones. And the evoked fear and agression can be so strong, that people never use cannabis again, as they don't know how to handle this state of mind or use it in a constructive way.
hehehe Exactly. I don't smoke it cuz it made me realize my belly hurt when I did smoke it. Wife doesn't smoke it for the same reason she doesn't smoke anything else. She has a point, too. I read somewhere pot has 14 times the tar that tobacco does. She says it stinks, too, which is why the kids go outside to puff. :D
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
54
48
Tula
Cliffy, I think pot should be legal.
I don't partake now.........and haven't for quite some time.
The above statement, however, is definitely going to make the Top One Hundred Silliest Posts.
You can talk stoned people into practically anything.... :)

And I agree with Cliffy. What you are talking about, Colpy, is doing things for fun, going a little crazy, or maybу trying out some kinds of behavior you don't dare practise in everyday life. But when it comes to really serious issues, the ones that Cliffy meant, you can't just "be talked into practically everything". What cannabis does, is alter your usual way of thinking, just ever so slightly. This change is not to be compared with the changes you undergo when taking psychedelics, for instance. But even this little change is enough to let you perceive the possibility of another point of view, another way of thinking, the existence of different motivations and different explanations. It takes something like pot to "shatter" your social and mental programming for a little time, but sometimes this time is enough. After you get this knowledge and learn to make use of it, you'll be able to analyse events in a more comprehensive way, and not just believe evetything you are told.