Capitalism can not eradicate poverty

gore0bsessed

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The "lifestyle" of those who wish to have things handed to them rather than working for it. That is a lifestyle, believe it or not.
you still have to work for the things you want. televisions, computers etc..shelter, food and other necessities shouldn't have to be worked for. when you have to work to live, that's a problem , people then become easily exploited.
 

taxslave

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I'm sorry, I didn't understand your answer. Could you unpack it a bit?

As I understand it, GST is roughly equivalent to what we call "sales tax." It's a percentage added onto (or contained within) the price of goods, and as I understand it, services in Canada.

Because you said the poor pay no tax, I assumed they have an exemption from GST, and I wondered at what income level that exemption kicked in. In other words, what level of income defines "poor?"

That $4200 is the top income that one gets a rebate at. It varies with income and number of dependents. GST is added at the till like provincial sales tax so you know what the government is taking. Except for natives. Having a status card will get you a new car with no GST if you sign the papers on the rez. Same with gas.
GST is a flow through for businesses. Essentially it is a VAT.
 

Dixie Cup

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you still have to work for the things you want. televisions, computers etc..shelter, food and other necessities shouldn't have to be worked for. when you have to work to live, that's a problem , people then become easily exploited.



Oh, so people shouldn't have to work for food and shelter - ah, okay. I get it.
 

EagleSmack

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you still have to work for the things you want. televisions, computers etc..shelter, food and other necessities shouldn't have to be worked for. when you have to work to live, that's a problem , people then become easily exploited.


LMAO. They have to work for TVs and PCs. Funny
 

captain morgan

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I suppose it is theoretically possible to pass a flat tax, with a sufficient groundswell. But the record would indicate that any such taxing system would almost instantly start accumulating deductions, credits, set-asides, loopholes, &c. until it was over 2000 pages long, all but five or ten pages creating loopholes, 90+% of which would favor the rich.

You are absolutely correct in the suggestion that there will always be loopholes favoring high income earners.... The logic is thus: as the tax system(s) are generally predicated on a % of income, there will always be pressure on gvt to attract and retain high income earners.

The difference in real dollars between an individual making $1 million vs someone making $100,000 vs $10,000 is significant even though all are taxed at the same rate (call it 10% for sh*ts and giggles). Bear in mind that I am talking about personal income taxes where theoretically, all people with use the common societal services on roughly an equal basis.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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You are absolutely correct in the suggestion that there will always be loopholes favoring high income earners.... The logic is thus: as the tax system(s) are generally predicated on a % of income, there will always be pressure on gvt to attract and retain high income earners.

The difference in real dollars between an individual making $1 million vs someone making $100,000 vs $10,000 is significant even though all are taxed at the same rate (call it 10% for sh*ts and giggles). Bear in mind that I am talking about personal income taxes where theoretically, all people with use the common societal services on roughly an equal basis.
Substantial gap between your "theoretically" and the real world. Don't matter none, we've already agreed that any real flat tax ain't gonna happen.
 

Liberalman

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If you have a flat tax system in place, you really don't need any tax breaks for anyone.

In terms of wages, raises and bonuses, does 'everyone' contribute equally at all times to the bottom-line?





Yep... Entitled to all the bennies without having to assume any risk or put in the effort

I guess you did not see the "or" in my post of my two different solutions
 

gore0bsessed

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Oh, you're talking globally - well that's a different ball of wax - not!!


What poverty stricken countries, oh wise one, have a capitalist system? Which poverty stricken countries have democratic governments? Which of the wealthier nations are socialistic and/or have a communist or dictatorial governments? Capitalism may have its faults, but name me one socialist, communist, dictatorship that is perfect and whose total population is thriving and there is no poverty at all?
the entire world is capitalist. there are no socialist countries or ever has been. there are some countries with a few socialist elements at best.

I think Tecumschsbones put it very succinctly in his post - lets fix what's wrong with capitalism (rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water - my words).


Crony capitalism needs to be eradicated for sure. What happened on Wall Street, for example, should have resulted in people going to prison for a very long time and it didn't happen and they continue to do what they did before. But the people let it happen because they sat on their hands and couldn't be bothered to vote. That's what needs to be fixed and we need people who have the balls to do what's right. WE need to take action and not rely on others to do it for us. The "I don't bother to vote" is the reason why our countries have issues - especially since only about 40% of people bother to vote to begin with. So whose fault is that? You can blame the politicians but it really comes down to the populace allowing these things to happen and not giving a damn about it.
you see these faults as separate from capitalism, but it's inherent in capitalism. as i said before the entire ideology of capitalism is based on an accumulation of wealth , profit is god basically.
blaming the people who don't for vote for problems a country has is simplistic. the reality is all the candidates are pretty similar anyways and work for the same corporate interests. so in that sense they're right in not voting as it feels meaningless. should they still go out and vote for a party that has little chance in winning? probably.

No one is saying that capitalism is perfect - it's not but it's the best we have and it has taken us a long way. The beauty of this system is that anyone can pick themselves up and be successful through hard work; I know because I did it.

that's absurd to think this is the best we can do. our system benefits the rich and demonizes the poor. worldwide poverty is an epidemic that really won't or can't get better (see the op). most people don't even recognize that all the violence, crimes, wars, going on are directly related to our system.


I'm not rich by any means, I am comfortable and I thank God every day that my grandparents decided to come to this country. They lived in a shack with dirt floors and scrapped a living from the soil so that my parents could have a better life and their children an even better one and over the years, that's exactly what has happened. We are better off than our grandparents ever were. I don't apologize to anyone for what I have because I've worked hard for it. I am also blessed in that I earn enough to support my favorite charities as do others who are as fortunate as I. Companies and corporations are also generous in many ways, helping those who cannot help themselves both here and abroad. That is what capitalism has brought us and has allowed us to do.
the younger generation has it worse than their parents did. higher student tuition and costs, forget buying a house, kids are living with their parents much longer, average income is lower today Younger Generations Are Worse Off Today - Business Insider ...

Incidentally, to state categorically that "most people who do well have this same ideology of "got mine, the hell with the rest of you" is disingenuous since you cannot know that as a fact. Such generalizations are not helpful and tend to lower the caliber of the discussion.


JMHO
it's a fact that most do. you see it all the time. of course there are always exceptions.

Oh, so people shouldn't have to work for food and shelter - ah, okay. I get it.
no and i literally explained why.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I am a wealthy capitalist, I worked to get that way. No I don't own a lear jet or a yawt nor a Lamberginnie. I have no debt and a wad of cash unt some treez unt a bit of gravel. Actually I was a criminal but I laundered myself.
 

Angstrom

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Rich wealthy people donate millions and millions every year into charities. To help the poor. Why don't you donate your time helping homeless people. Join a church and do Gods will. I bet rich people help poor people a whole lot more then you and me ;)

My wife is a stay at home mother and finds way to give to the poor. She helps the food bank, she helps the poor, she helps the sick.

We have never needed socialism to help others. Religion used to do much more charitable work, but so few believe and participate today.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I am a wealthy capitalist, I worked to get that way. No I don't own a lear jet or a yawt nor a Lamberginnie. I have no debt and a wad of cash unt some treez unt a bit of gravel. Actually I was a criminal but I laundered myself.
Hey, me too! Nice to have another member of the club around here.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Hey, me too! Nice to have another member of the club around here.

Really? I don't remember seeing you arround the ole holeaway but I do partake too much quite often and my memorey is sketchy as well. I'd give the secret shake but it's no good this way.


Rich wealthy people donate millions and millions every year into charities. To help the poor. Why don't you donate your time helping homeless people. Join a church and do Gods will. I bet rich people help poor people a whole lot more then you and me ;)

My wife is a stay at home mother and finds way to give to the poor. She helps the food bank, she helps the poor, she helps the sick.

We have never needed socialism to help others. Religion used to do much more charitable work, but so few believe and participate today.

Yer logic is infantile, that means little, the rich first must take their wealth from the poor, that's where it comes from you know. The poor and the homeless may get a thin slice of the pie or some crumbs, that does not make the filthy rich human.
 

Angstrom

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Yer logic is infantile, that means little, the rich first must take their wealth from the poor, that's where it comes from you know. The poor and the homeless may get a thin slice of the pie or some crumbs, that does not make the filthy rich human.

You have no logic at all.

RICH people make money from a service. That's not stealing;), a product, that is in high demand. they beat out other competitors and try to win your business.
POOR people don't have a service or a product to offer that is in high demand. they have been beaten out by competitors that produced the service better in some way then you.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Getting Sirius. I know poverty has been defined, I know profit has been defined and I guess there's to damn many definitions of both poverty and profit. In this our age as in the others the laws applied to profit favour widespread poverty. Something will have to be done. Poverty must be redefined to reflect lasting ironclad values.

You have no logic at all.

RICH people make money from a service. That's not stealing;), a product, that is in high demand. they beat out other competitors and try to win your business.
POOR people don't have a service or a product to offer that is in high demand. they have been beaten out by competitors that produced the service better in some way then you.

I'll deal with the scant fact you present. They the rich certainly do beat, burn, and dismember the competitors and try to steal all the business by means such as poison, gunplay, daggers and of course enormous wars. Being poor is because of uncompensated service extended to the rich. Of course there are lazy incompetent people however the rich exaggerate their numbers constantly. This hate for the poor allows the rich and powerful to expend the poor in huge numbers every century since I been on this planet. You are never going to be rich, even by accident.
 

Angstrom

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I'm just going to get off my couch and make my own furniture, make my own clothing, make my own food , repair my own car, make my own tools, bartering things I have but don't need for things I need on the net, shut my breaker box off when I'm not using electricity, offer services, and products, pass flyers.


That's what I'm doing. It's called living .

I've lowered my cost of living considerably. And I've raised my income considerably.

And I'm no longer POOR ;)
 

darkbeaver

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I'm just going to get off my couch and make my own furniture, make my own clothing, make my own food , repair my own car, make my own tools, bartering things I have but don't need for things I need on the net, shut my breaker box off when I'm not using electricity, offer services, and products, pass flyers.


That's what I'm doing. It's called living .

I don't own a couch. Work of the devil for sure. No one can crasp the wickedness conducted on couches. Chew those flyers completely before you pass them.
 

Angstrom

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The only thing that can stop poverty is being as self sufficient as possible, ;).
it's a revolution. Stop buying, and find and make the things you need !!!!

The rich isn't stealing the poor's money. The poor's are giving what little money they have to the rich, instead of making their own. ;)

Just 100 years ago most people were doing fine making most of the things they needed

If you don't like the rich stop buying their $hit ;) it's that simple

If they can make the $hit your buying from them,
then you also can make it. Unless you're retarded.

In that case those rich people really deserve the money you give them. ;)

Just make your own smart phone, You don't need to pay Apple any money. They don't deserve any cash for all that easy work they did figuring out how to put that simple device together.

Your a £ucking idiot Darkbeaver
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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" Simple Device", that's what I'll think every time I see your handle now. People who make devices are not really who I had in mind when I mentioned the filthy rich. It is illegal to make your own money and has been for some time now. I have been Mr Self Sufficient for forty years already, yes it works, of course it works. I know that you can't appreciate the real idiot I am. That's the gulf that separates you and I and will likely remain unspaned for centuries to come such is the miserable state of your adhesion to reality.