Canadian soldier killed defending our freedom

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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CDN

Canadians are happy Bush is in office - when I first started posting on forums, Canadians had nobody to rest their anger on - Bubba was busily travelling around the world playing the Bubbla Loves You Game...and
all Canadians could tell me why they hated the U.S. was "your foreign policy" and other such unexplained vague generalizations not bearing much fruit ...

So little George of nook-yew-lar fame choked on a pretzel, had an much touted alcohol and coke problem in college won the election (both of them even though Canadians argue that as well), and off we were to read all of the recycled hate only now there was a target square in the middle of the hate board.

I honestly believe if Canada continues down this path of deep divide, it will happen, and for that very reason, I am concerned for the future of Canada unless they can rustle up some wealthy trading partners
for their wonderful natural resources and manufacturing products.

Think doing business with the evil USA is bad? Name another country of preference...hmmmmmmm.

Canadians did not join the U.S. in Vietnam, in fact made an issue of how bad the U.S. was during that conflict, yet continued to do business with the evil empire. Yet continued harping to this day about VietNam mistakes.

Canadians could opt out of their commitments in Afghanistan as well. Canada is an autonomous country and it is governed by the wishes of the people (isn't it?).

Cut and run sounds unlike Canada, but it has changed in recent times.

WC, if I wasn't already married, I'ld ask you out on a date.

Cutting and running, as well as turning our backs on our friends is not the Canada my Great Grand father, Grand Father, Father or myself, served with honour, courage, loyalty and distinction.

P.E.T. knew VietNam was a farce. The Peoples Republic of, had not crossed the line the Islamo-faschists crossed on 9/11. Perhaps, the fact that, due to my heritage, I see nor am I affected by a border, between to two Nation. I see Americans as my brothers. I don't agree with the foriegn policy of the American Government, and never have. But, I will not and nor should our nation, sit idly by, and let such an atrocity go unchecked. Turning a blind eye doesn't protect you from the violence, it only serves to foster it, and let it florish.

To all you bleeding heart, bring them home, they're not dying to protect me, we're only there cause the States, this isn't our war or they didn't attack us types. Remeber what the people of Germany said after liberation from the nazi's, when they were asked why they let the nazi's take friends and neighbours to the death camps. It wasn't my place to say anything, what could I have done?, they weren't coming for me, so why would I risk my life?

Why indeed.

Mybe it's because I was raised by the generation preceeding my parents, instead of them. But I was taught to "Stand and deliver".
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
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http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/09/29/soldier-afghanistan.html

What a waste. He was out there west of Kandahar not defending our freedom and spreading the Bush doctrine to Afghanistan. Lets bring our troops home. More will die. And it's not to protect us. That soldier did not die for us. If Canada wasn't in this war we would be as safe. Maybe safer. Because now we are making enemies.
I guess you don't wear Red on Fridays to show support for the men and women in the Canadian Military. If you really believe in what you are saying, why don't you stop by a local Canadian Forces Base and share you're wisdom with them? :rolleyes:
 

temperance

Electoral Member
Sep 27, 2006
622
16
18
hey mabye we could ask the soldiers what they think ,nice of you all to pick sides but I rather hear what are soldiers have to say ,I will support them ,they are there if they feel we are doing the right thing Isupport that, if they say its not going to bring postive outcome I support that , I want what they say not what the goverment tells them to say --until then --

does the average canadian know why the soldiers are there? --no ---if past history dictates furture the answeres will lie with in our soldiers thoughts --
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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I guess you don't wear Red on Fridays to show support for the men and women in the Canadian Military. If you really believe in what you are saying, why don't you stop by a local Canadian Forces Base and share you're wisdom with them? :rolleyes:

Great idea, where can I pick you all up at?

We'll all go out to Trenton, my oldest has friends there, as do I. We can ask them what they think. Oh wait, I already did. They all think like me, go figure!

"Not 100% on the dynamics, but duty calls. Houp?!"

"Huop!!"
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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hey mabye we could ask the soldiers what they think ,nice of you all to pick sides but I rather hear what are soldiers have to say ,I will support them ,they are there if they feel we are doing the right thing Isupport that, if they say its not going to bring postive outcome I support that , I want what they say not what the goverment tells them to say --until then --

does the average canadian know why the soldiers are there? --no ---if past history dictates furture the answeres will lie with in our soldiers thoughts --

I already did, and they want to be there. For differing reasons, from some that want to just kick ass, to those that see that some times peace can be achieved at the end of a weapon, to those that see this as a laying the ground work for aid missions.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
39
Petawawa Ontario
This is the way I see it.



Lets say we dont have any way to win this, let say the taliban keep recruiting and fighting. We still must stay and fight. Why because thne it shows that we will just give up whent he going gets tough. We are their and fighting The Taliban, who were an oprresive government who want to get thier power back.

While the Taliban were in power, they let Bin Laden and his buddies set up camp, training terrorist all across afganistan. That just one fact. Secondly The Taliban gained power after they ran the soviet union out, Their was no vote. Imeditly the taliban began to change things drascticly, all woman had to wear Burkas, and could not go to school. They killed or ran out the Woman who had any power at all, or would speak out. They killed and hunted down people who would teach young girls, or gave them any type of education. Basicly Woman were around for homemaking and left basicly as dumb as a post, and trained to be submissive. TV, RADIO AND MUSIC all banned, this was used to keep the Afagn people normal evryday folks from knowing what was going on in the world so they had nothing to compare their deprived lives to. You look at all the Countries around them, and most were much better off, Afgaistan however, was stunted econmicly and socaily due to the Talibans leadership.

Not only has Nato and ISAF removed the Taliban, they have given people freedom, education and a Vote. We also have secured the area, to stop the Terrorist trainning camps, and we have began dystroying poppy fields, and dope feilds. Whoever the fool who said to support the CIA drug trade is needs a huge slap, the drug trade actully supports the Taliban, giving them funding. We have been getting rid of the poopy fields and dope fields, which in away bites us int he ass, because many druglords have used this to gain welth and power over much of the small villages, and they dont want to lose their power so they team up with the taliban and fight us, by funding their own millitas and the Taliban, to sto us from giving hte government control of the villages they have been running. Thats why their has been a huge rise in violance i think, due to the dystruction of the the drug rings. But in most every other province in Afganistan their is peace and no fighting, now that we are going into the drug strong holds and the areas close to the Pakistani Borders where the Taliban hide from International troops we have been running into alot of resitance. Once we remove the druglords and taliban from these areas thoreticly we will have beaten them, but this is proving much harder because Pakistan is slack in removing the taliban from inside their country and actully grant amesty to them, they even signed a deal to alow them to claim refugee status. Due to this the Taliban have recently been paying Paki men to fight with them and also training in safety.

On the otehr hand this is quite winable but we need to get support from toehr nato Countries and we need to get better at figureing out who the enemy is to protect ourselves from suicide bombings which the magority of our deaths have come from. Becaus ein Combat they cant stand up to us.


Now in regards to the first post of this thread, you better elarn some respect because weather or not you agree with the war, you should support our troops, because they feel they are doing the right thing for you and me, and to say what you have said is a slap in the face to him and his family, and because you beleave one thing and he died beleaving something else doesnt mena he is wrong, and it doesnt mean you are ethier but give him the respect he deserves.

Note:I Myself Have Signed my Papers to Join the Army, and Id hope if I were to die fighting for something I think is a Nobel cause people would still respect me for what I did.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
To bad when you go to Afghanistan you won’t die for a noble cause. Well, since "terror" is the leading topic of the day, we have a single standard. Their terror against us and our clients is the ultimate evil, while our terror against them does not exist - or if it does it's entirely appropriate.
If we are to fight countries that harbor terrorists, why not America? They are harboring terrorists right now. Venezuela is seeking extradition of a notorious Latin American terrorist, Luis Posada Carriles, to face charges for bombing a Cubana airliner, killing seventy three people. After he escaped from a Venezuelan prison he was hired but the US to direct the re-supply operation for the Nicaraguan contras from El Salvador. That is to say, play a prominent role in Washington’s terrorist war against Nicaragua. This is a fact. Look it up.
So we are very selective in the terrorist we choose to fight. We go run in to fight the Taliban, who are now evil doers. But where they in the 80's? No. They were funded by the States. Our soldiers are dying to fight a screw up the Americans made.
Right now a study shows that America is in more danger of a terrorist attack because of the war in Iraq. The same could be said for Canada. Invading a Muslim land is a sure way to put your country at risk. I don’t buy the right wing propaganda at all. I question things. I don’t want our soldiers to die for a stupid cause. Supporting the military industrial complex. And more soldiers will die in this pointless war. Wearing red on Friday doesn't do them any good. It doesn't save lives. It's more propaganda.
 

catman

Electoral Member
Sep 3, 2006
182
4
18
Canada will stay until 2009. Once our mandate has expired Canadian forces will return home. The majority of Canadians are already against this mission. Don't expect that to change in two years.

There is no way the minority government can get the mission extended next time. And there is no way Canadians will give Harper a majority with the Afghan mission being a pivitol election issue.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
To bad when you go to Afghanistan you won’t die for a noble cause. Well, since "terror" is the leading topic of the day, we have a single standard. Their terror against us and our clients is the ultimate evil, while our terror against them does not exist - or if it does it's entirely appropriate.
If we are to fight countries that harbor terrorists, why not America? They are harboring terrorists right now. Venezuela is seeking extradition of a notorious Latin American terrorist, Luis Posada Carriles, to face charges for bombing a Cubana airliner, killing seventy three people. After he escaped from a Venezuelan prison he was hired but the US to direct the re-supply operation for the Nicaraguan contras from El Salvador. That is to say, play a prominent role in Washington’s terrorist war against Nicaragua. This is a fact. Look it up.
So we are very selective in the terrorist we choose to fight. We go run in to fight the Taliban, who are now evil doers. But where they in the 80's? No. They were funded by the States. Our soldiers are dying to fight a screw up the Americans made.
Right now a study shows that America is in more danger of a terrorist attack because of the war in Iraq. The same could be said for Canada. Invading a Muslim land is a sure way to put your country at risk. I don’t buy the right wing propaganda at all. I question things. I don’t want our soldiers to die for a stupid cause. Supporting the military industrial complex. And more soldiers will die in this pointless war. Wearing red on Friday doesn't do them any good. It doesn't save lives. It's more propaganda.
You're post insults the sacrifices made by Canadian Soldiers and their families in Afghanistan. It's funny how you can say such garbage safe at home behind a computer but you don't have the courage to say it to the face of a Canadian Soldier..
 

Lineman

No sparks please
Feb 27, 2006
452
7
18
Winnipeg, Manitoba

So we are very selective in the terrorist we choose to fight. We go run in to fight the Taliban, who are now evil doers. But where they in the 80's? No. They were funded by the States. Our soldiers are dying to fight a screw up the Americans made.
Correction: the Taliban were never "supported" by the US. The US supported the Mujahadin, the Taliban only emerged in 1994 well after the Russians had left and the regime they left behind disintergrated into warlords and druglords fighting for their piece of the pie.The Pakistani intelligence service was the Taliban's major supporter.

Our soldiers are dying. Whether their fight in Afghanistan will keep us safe here at home, debatable. Are we there to find OBL, I doubt it. The mission has changed. This doesn't make it any less important though. If anything it has now become more along the lines of what most Canadians expect of their Forces.What they are doing though is slowly making the Kandahar region safe for women, children, farmers, etc. They're fighting the Taliban so all children can go to school. They're training the Afghan army so they can defend themselves and their countrymen. They're doing simple things like drilling wells, fixing roads, helping set up basic local government. They're destroying munitions from the last 30 years of fighting. They're helping remove mines so farmers can work the fields. They're providing seed to grow crops instead of poppies. None of this makes the headlines but peace will not happen if we abandon them and leave them to the Taliban. Kabul is now relatively peaceful and prosperous, Kandahar may take much longer but it will be also.
As for pipelines crossing the country, hell why not! Why not give them another source of income. I am fairly certain that the US is not the only oil consumer in the world. Europe and Asia will gobble up a fair share. You are right on one point it is about oil. We want it, they want it, it's THE thing we all want, it's what makes our economies and lives what they are. As long as you and I use it someone has to supply it and if they try to keep it from us, well......Can you do without plastics, transportation and heat?
 

Lineman

No sparks please
Feb 27, 2006
452
7
18
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada will stay until 2009. Once our mandate has expired Canadian forces will return home. The majority of Canadians are already against this mission. Don't expect that to change in two years.

There is no way the minority government can get the mission extended next time. And there is no way Canadians will give Harper a majority with the Afghan mission being a pivitol election issue.

Support is growing, Is it a coincidence that the more Jack Layton speaks the higher the support goes..... curious......You anti-war, anti-american whiners should shut him up before he destroys your raison d'etre.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
You're post insults the sacrifices made by Canadian Soldiers and their families in Afghanistan. It's funny how you can say such garbage safe at home behind a computer but you don't have the courage to say it to the face of a Canadian Soldier..

Actually, it insults what he percieves as the disjoint between the ideal and the reality which to me is by all means fair dingham. and what makes you think he hasn't?
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Gonzo More Insight?

Right now a study shows that America is in more danger of a terrorist attack because of the war in Iraq. The same could be said for Canada. Invading a Muslim land is a sure way to put your country at risk. I don’t buy the right wing propaganda at all. I question things. I don’t want our soldiers to die for a stupid cause. Supporting the military industrial complex. And more soldiers will die in this pointless war. Wearing red on Friday doesn't do them any good. It doesn't save lives. It's more propaganda.

What study - Which attack ???

"America" has been attacked by terrrorists going back to the Carter Administration and before that.
If you think "America" is in danger of an attack you are a bit late to the concern.

Propaganda must be a nice comfortable word for you to keep telling yourself - while you opt out of any guilt you may have for not wanting to have to be engaged in a conflict.
 

catman

Electoral Member
Sep 3, 2006
182
4
18
The National Intelligence Estimate that was leaked to the press last week claimed that the Iraq war had not made America any safer and that Jihadists have actually increased in size. It was posted on this board a couple of times.

Anyway, all polls show that the majority of Canadians do not support this mission. Do you guys really think that will change in a couple of years? Canadian troops will be coming home in 2009.
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
0
16
Except of course that would be a lie too. Not Hussein being an ar$e, but the perception that before the war, Hussein was busy killing thousands of innocent Iraqis each year.

The fact is before the war, Iraq was relatively peaceful. Sure it was oppressed and run by a brutal dictator, but as long as Iraqi citizens didn't get involved in conspiracies to overthrow Hussein, they were left alone.

The worst Hussein ever did was in response to insurgent revolts at the end of the Iran/Iraq war and right after the end of Gulf War I.

America's reaction to Iraq's use of chemical weapons to crush a Kurdish rebellion in 1988, was to make speeches in the UN defending Hussein and continued trade in CW technology. Europe imposed an arms embargo, which the US ignored.

At the end of Gulf War I, many Shiite and Kurdish soldiers returned to their villages, heavily armed and unhappy with Hussein. The American government told these people they would support their efforts to overthrow Hussein.

When revolts broke out, the US, UK and France did supply air cover for the Kurds by imposing a nothern no-fly zone in violation of international law since it was not authorized by the UN. In the south, the world stood on the sidelines as Hussein crushed the Shiite revolt.

Invading Iraq during these times could have been justified on humanitarian grounds. But these events took place in the 1980's and early 90's.

Propaganda during the run up to the war often referenced these events out of context to manufacture a perception that Hussein was busy killing fellow Iraqi's up until the US led invasion. Anyone who has this perception should re-examine what you think you know about Iraq and Hussein.

The fact is, Iraqi's are much worse off now after the US led invasion/occupation. That's not a statement in praise of Hussein, but an observation on how bad the Iraq war has been on innocent Iraqis.

Look at this Whitehouse Press release:



Read that press release and after cutting through all the BS about events which occurred more than three years before the US led invasion, the provable facts are that during the three years preceding the US led invasion, Iraq maybe executed about 175 people, most of whom were convicted of capital crimes.

Go back another 6 years and the number rises to about 2500 people. Most of these people were killed as a result of their involvement in a failed American plot to overthrow Hussein in 1998.

Since the US led invasion:



Anyway you look at this the Iraq war has created far more problems than it solved, for Iraqi's and the rest of the world.

Back on topic, how does this relate to Afghanistan?

Many Muslims saw the original Afghanistan operation as justified. The Taliban were given a chance to hand over the people responsible for 9/11, but refused. The resulting invasion/occupation of Afghanistan was not seen as an attack on Muslims, but a form of justice.

But most Muslims see the atrocities committed by the west against their fellow Muslims in Iraq as an unjustified attack on innocent Muslims. As a result they want to take up arms against the foreign invaders they believe have raped, tortured and murdered their fellow Muslims in Iraq.

The Iraq war has completely changed Muslim perceptions about foreign military forces in Afghanistan. As a result, the make up of the insurgents in Afghanistan has become more international. Likely nations like Iran and Syria who see their security dependant on keeping foreign militaries bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, have been clandestinely arming anti-foreigner insurgent movements in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So the question now is why is Canada in Afghanistan?

Is this war still about 9/11 and reconstruction or has this war evolved into a war without end for the purposes of wearing down western military might?

If this war is about wearing down our military, then we should definitely limit the scope of our involvement.

If this war is about winning hearts and minds, then Canada should take care not to offend Muslims and make certain that any Canadian soldier who violates the rules of war is brought to justice. We should also take extreme care to keep collateral damage to an absolute minimum.


Our participation in Afghanstan should be sen as support for Afghan civilians, not American foreign policy. I do not want Muslims to think Canada's involvement in Afghanistan as support for what the US has done in Iraq or its violations of international law, human rights and Geneva conventions.

Since our leaders refuse to condemn what the US has done, its a safe bet most Muslims think we support American war crimes and atrocities.

You actually believe anything the US government says??? You gotta be blind!